Who is your favorite TMNT.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Responding to sage ninja's respond. Very insightful. I too have favorite Turtles depending on the medium except for Raph, he's always been able to catch my eye out of the rest of them in all mediums.

I agree, I like new toon Leo better than the classic toon. I also liked him in the first movie, but he seemed off in the other two.

I hated Leonardo in the live action movies. His voice annoyed me and I felt he was way to passive and didn't exibit his leadership skills as nicely as i thought he should have. Plus he was a fruit. I hated how he couldn't hold his own ground in a verbal confrontation with Raphael. I was wicked unimpressed with him.

Donnie I have always liked in all the mediums, but I prefer him in the new toon as well.

I said I liked Donatello in both animated versions. Him and Michaelangelo.

Mikey now, I only like him in the movies. Both toons I found him insanely annoying. But he was just absolutely adorable in the movies. All three of them to be exact.

Wow I have to say that you saying this suprices me quite a bit. Based on on other posts I've seen you make (particularly in the Splinter thread) I thought you liked Mikey . Oh well I might have confused you with some one else on in that thread.

However I get where you are coming from with the whole Michaelangelo is annoying thing. Because he can be. I sometimes get extremely disgusted on how the writters make Mikey act and behave in the New toon at times. There is more to his character than just being a hyper-active clown type. In the old toon I don't find him quite as annoying, the only thing I found annoying about his personality is his obsession with pizza! holy moly, one would think pizza was crack to him the way he obesses over it all the time.

But your comment on not understanding Raphael's attitude in the first three seasons of 2k3 toon. I wonder if it's the fans who share his similar anger issues that seems to tolerate him more. Could that be the case? I'm more of the quick to get frustrated and pissed off, and I will throw things when agitated enough, and I honestly can't explain why I get so angry. I just do. And I see Raph's frustrations in that he can't walk around the world with the humans, but he is torn that he feels obligated that he has to protect them too, and I understand that anger. In that it's better to let it out the keep it in.

That is not it at all. To be honest I can relate with his anger issues cause I have one violent temper when I'm provoked (sometimes i don't even have to be all that provoked ). I can't put my finger on why it is exactly that turns me off to Raph and his anger issues it just does/did. All I know is that when he strated to settle down and become more of a team player and more mature in the New toon I strated to like him.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

One thing I don't like is when it's inserted in the dialog that him making a joke is a surprise. I never get surprised by it; Leonardo is serious, but he's by no means stuck-up or humor-less; there have been several occassions in the OT where he made jokes or made sarcastic remarks in battle, and he still does in the NT (e.g. Turtles in Space Part 2: "You guys look tired, have a 'seat'"), true, he doesn't as often in the NT, but neither do the others.

I agree. I don't like when the characters act so damn supriced when Leonardo loosens up and cracks a joke or does something silly or fun. Its like WTH, serious people can realax too. I can relate to Leonardo in this instance because i'm a pretty quite and serious person for the most part, but when i'm in the right enviroment I like to cut loose and be more out going.

*Donatello: in OT did have a more natural sense of humor, though he was a bit condescending at times. He was charming and had a cute voice in both toons. He may have been a bit more out-spoken in OT, but in either universe, while he does generally have a calm disposition, he still doesn't take crap from anyone. Personally, I don't find Donatello (OT and NT) as quiet as some people seem to think he is, he's generally easy-going, but he's very assertive in a serious situation.

I agree I didn't mean to apply that NT Don isn't a badass when he wants to be. And he can to be condesending to his brothers at times I think it is funny, although I find OT Donatello to have been much more developed and explored as a character in the old toon. But over-all he was pretty good.

*Raphael: I did like his humorous and observant portrayal in the OT. I believed him when he said in the OT "Nothing beats cutting wit" (A Thing About Rats). And he does have a lot of wit/street-smarts in both toons, he's not dumb or stupid. I can relate to his anger issues in the NT, I find him to be very rational and reasonable (especially in "City at War" arc, when he described getting involved in the gangster war as "throwing more fuel on the fire"). Although I too don't enjoy his constant whacking of Michaelangelo, sometimes he has good reason, but he tends to overdo it sometimes.

I like OT Raphael because he is more relaxed as a character in that universe and OMG funny. Although even in the old toon Raphael was a little mean toward Michaelangelo which miffed me. He never missed an opertunity to imply that he was stupid in some way or another which i thought was wrong. Other than that I loved him and his slick ways. I wish they had developed him more in the old toon. As for the NT, watching him just makes me feel agitated sometimes and their are a few instances where he goes off on these tangents and I just long for one of the characters to tell to STFU. But under all that bluster I think he really is a caring and sweet guy and I'm a sucker for that. My favorite Raph moment in the whole new toon was his interactions with that blind old lady . Man Raph was such a sweet heart in that episode.

*Michaelangelo: I like him in both toons, although to quote something written elsewhere, he tends to be a bit of a "glutton for punishment" in the NT and he seem to enjoy getting whacked at times.

That was me that made that remark. I think poor Mikey gets off on getting smacked

About what sage ninja said on how Michaelangelo constantly needed saving in the OT- on the contrary, michalangelo proved well at taking care of himself (like when he broke out of his metal chains in "Michaelangelo's Birthday" with his own brute strength; he did the same thing in the NT in "I, Monster"), and there were several times in which it was the other way around in the OT: Michaelangelo had to save the others himself (exs: "Michaelangelo's Birthday" where he teamed up with Splinter after the others had been sprayed with anti-mutagen, "What's Michaelangelo Good For?" where he outsmarted Dr. Lesseau's traps to get to his brothers, "Enter the Rats" where he broke into Shredder's place to stop the Mouser robots before they devoured the others who were outside with April and Splinter)

you make some good points about OT Michaelangelo being able to take care of himself and not being a damsel in distress. Because they are true. Its just that as seasons went on it seemed like he was unable to get himself out of trouble on his own. In his birthday episode he isn't able to fend off Rocksteady and Bebop and Shredder and is easliy captured. Any other turtle i think would have put up a fight. And in the episode where he meets Mondo Geko he is easlily beat up and subdued by petty street thugs. And it seemed that later on when compared to his brothers he seemd like a push over when it came to fighting, when in the earlier part of the series he seemed about even with all over them. All the instances you mentioned where times where eighther he was about to die or his brothers, so it was like the only time he was abvle to be really kick ass was when it was an extreme sitution, the others seemed able to defend themselves no mater the situation.

But in the OT, he may not have been as outgoing, but he was more assertive and less willing to take crap from people (e.g. Leatherhead meets the Rat King- when he knocked over leonardo in a split-second and smashed Donatello's catapult with one karate chop).

That is interesting that you say that OT Mike didn't take crap from people as much as NT Mike does. I do notice that OT Mike seems to get angry and flip out every once in while when he is pushed to far in a domestic setting. You hardly ever see NT Mike react in that way in similar situtions. Especially since I've always felt that of the two NT Mike was less of a door mat because he actily annoys his brothers and OT Mike just glared at his brothers when they pissed him off. But they are both kinda of submissive and puc=sh overs i think.

[Rooish]

Yeah, Warhorse, you had me thrown too. You seemed fond of Mikey.

And Sage Ninja, I agree with you about Leo in the movies.

[Warhorse]

How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

But no matter how annoying he gets in the toons, I think it's ridiculous for Splinter to constantly smack him upside the head with his walking stick. Sporadically, it can be funny, but after a while, the constant smacking is even more annoying.

[Rooish]

Fair enough. When I think about him honestly, he's not my favourite in the new 'toon.

[Masked Ninja]

100% agreement on Movie Leo.

"And you act like a jerk sometimes, you know that?"

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now.

I really like what they did with Leo in season 4 of the new 'toon - take the boring leadertype and pick his mind a little. Fans of the other Turtles got a bit peeved because Leo got even more focus, but I thought it was a good thing to try.

They attempted the same kinda thing with Mikey in individual epsiodes, but it never seemed to stick. Then again, I could see it being a little in character for him to get taught harsh lessons but then forget about them until crunch time. Mikey likes being laid back, and nothing's really going to put him off his normal attitude (unless it's insanely harsh, like what led to SAINW Mikey... who I found equally awesome and sad. Here we have a Mikey who's finally gotten serious, but at what cost? And is he happy? ) With Mikey, I like him being rather ADHD on the surface, but suddenly he comes out fighting or contributes something really insightful (like in Samurai Tourist). My sister is kinda like this: geeky/weird and a little blond on the surface, but she notices things and can wow you by saying the most unexpectedly profound things.

I suppose it's like Leo's sense of humor, in reverse. Though I do think that he cracks plenty of jokes... and not only ones that suck, either. He's just not in humor mode all the time like Mikey or even Raph.

I still can't pick a favorite - it used to be Leo, but it tends to shift around. My personality is mainly Leo/Don, with a bit of Mikey in there somewhere. Recently I've been drawing lots of Donatello in the margins of my notes and such, so maybe he's my current favorite. *shrug* I don't identify with Raph at all, but it does give me warm fuzzies when he accidentally lets a little bit of that inner teddy bear show.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now.

LOL, my friend. "Listen, Raph. What I said before... you know, about not needing ya." Heh, pussy.

[triplexxx]

Personally, I liked Leonardo's portrayal in the movies. He may not have been as assertive, but he still had that compassionate, caring side to him (when Raphael woke up after being beaten up, one of my favorite scenes in the first movie), and that's what I like most about him.
As for the season 4 thing, while I did find it interesting for a while, they certainly brought that storyline way too far. I mean, what was it Leonardo spent months making a big deal about anyway?
A battle which he and his family WON, that's what.
True, it was only won by sheer luck and only because the Utroms bailed them out at the last minute, but still, the turtles and Splinter got what they wanted: Shredder put out of their misery forever. So what was there to complain about? Truth is, Leonardo spent all that time making a big deal over practically nothing at all; I honestly don't see what's so appealing about that. The problem was, Leonardo's angst had no rational motivation.
With Michaelangelo in SAINW, he had three good reasons to be miserable: a brother had disappeared for 30 years; his father had sacraficed his life for him and his brothers; and the world was in complete turmoil.

[Aignatius]

After thinking about this for a bit, it comes across that Leo is taking on a really tough position. He has to lead a clan that is actually very difficult to manage. I'm thinking that Leo is trying really hard to find a good balance between being a strong, decisive leader and being diplomatic. Plus, when his brothers express resentment of him, it seems to hurt him. He really cares what they think of him.
And it looks like he has had to struggle with his own self-importance as a kid in order to deal effectively with the hard knocks of life, and leave behind his childhood naivete on how the world is supposed to be. How many 15-18 (or thereabouts) year olds can truly handle the responsibilities and the challenges he's taking on?
At the same time, Leo seems to want to fit in with his brothers. If he's too legalistic, he will alienate them. If he's too much of a softie, they won't take him seriously enough. I'm just wondering how much of his leadership skills are natural talent and how much of it is learned from the school of hard knocks... okay, I'm rambling, time for a cup of tea.

[triplexxx]

Please delete this

[Rooish]

You guys are right, and you've helped me appreciate Leo more. Let me clarify: I liked him in the movies; I liked his kindness and gentleness. It just wasn't very Leo to me. As in, it isn't how I see him. I really like him in the new Mirage comics; he has eased up, and he still tries to be the best he can be and he still leads because he's earned their respect (he doesn't lead by being bossy), but he's kind and accepting of his bros.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

100% agreement on Movie Leo.

"And you act like a jerk sometimes, you know that?"

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now.

I really like what they did with Leo in season 4 of the new 'toon - take the boring leadertype and pick his mind a little. Fans of the other Turtles got a bit peeved because Leo got even more focus, but I thought it was a good thing to try.

I love, love, love me some Leonardo in the new toon. And I like how they shook him up in season four. Other people may have been irritated about it but I thought it was cool and well executed. Honestly Leonardo in the New toon is the best portrayal of him that i've seen so far. Haters die!!

and i'm sorry, I know that Leonardo in the movies was portayed as laid back and compassionate but I still was unimpressed with him. Not to say he didn't have cute mannerisms but he was just to fruity and geeky for me to take seriously. And the whole bath tub scene where Leonardo reacts to Raph getting up almost made me role my eyes. I was with Raphael "get a grip will ya!"

They attempted the same kinda thing with Mikey in individual epsiodes, but it never seemed to stick. Then again, I could see it being a little in character for him to get taught harsh lessons but then forget about them until crunch time.

To be honest I haven't seen to much evidence of this except in Grudge Match most episodes show casing Mikey are ones where he is being himself and enjoying super hereos. I kind of like and dislike the fact that he gets taught harsh lessons and then forgets them till crunch time. I like how it gives him reason to stop being blase about every thing and bang out the super ninja skills, but at the same time I get annoyed that the writters can't allow him to slowly progress away from his slcker ways. They allowed Raph to move away from his temper issues and mature why not Mikey?

Mikey likes being laid back, and nothing's really going to put him off his normal attitude (unless it's insanely harsh, like what led to SAINW Mikey... who I found equally awesome and sad. Here we have a Mikey who's finally gotten serious, but at what cost? And is he happy? ) With Mikey, I like him being rather ADHD on the surface, but suddenly he comes out fighting or contributes something really insightful (like in Samurai Tourist). My sister is kinda like this: geeky/weird and a little blond on the surface, but she notices things and can wow you by saying the most unexpectedly profound things.

I like Mikey ADHD too, I just wish they can let him come out with the profound stuff and super intelligent stuff a bit more often and stop making him go embarrssing things. And you are right, as cool as SAINW Mikey was, I wouldn't want him to be as unhappy as that.

How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

But no matter how annoying he gets in the toons, I think it's ridiculous for Splinter to constantly smack him upside the head with his walking stick. Sporadically, it can be funny, but after a while, the constant smacking is even more annoying.

ok, it just seemed like you where contidicting your self thats all. And I agree about the cannings.

Fair enough. When I think about him honestly, he's not my favourite in the new 'toon.

you know i've been noticeing alot of people with the same opinion as this. New toon Michaelangelo personality doesn't seem to be a favorite among people. Weird.

[Spawn Guy]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

As for the season 4 thing, while I did find it interesting for a while, they certainly brought that storyline way too far. I mean, what was it Leonardo spent months making a big deal about anyway?
A battle which he and his family WON, that's what.
True, it was only won by sheer luck and only because the Utroms bailed them out at the last minute, but still, the turtles and Splinter got what they wanted: Shredder put out of their misery forever. So what was there to complain about? Truth is, Leonardo spent all that time making a big deal over practically nothing at all; I honestly don't see what's so appealing about that. The problem was, Leonardo's angst had no rational motivation.

Angst needs to be rational now? That was the point, he was making a big deal over nothing. The entire Ancient One episode was about him admitting that. He thought he failed his family, that's enough reason for him to feel bad, and sice he didn't exactly sit down and talk to anyone about, it it just got worse. We know it's stupid, the point is he dosen't.

[triplexxx]

You're right Spawn Guy. However, I still have a question:
If "angst" is not supposed to have rational motivation and is supposed to be just flat-out stupid, why do I get the sense that a lot of turtle fans here enjoy watching angst in the cartoon; I mean how can people enjoy a show they believe to be mature and yet contains such an immature factor like angst?

[tOkKa]

-->>















..kiddin' kiddin' .. oi !!

[Spawn Guy]

I like angst to the extent that a charecter matures once they get over it, as with Leo once he realises he did the best he could. He just grew up and resolved to get on with things.

And not all angst is stupid. Stupid is kind of strong, like "Hate" to discribe dislike. Take Spider-Man for example; he's got a reason to feel all sad and angry and dump on himself, but he can't save everyone and won't no matter how hard he tries. Leo was in the same boat. In this case, I meant it's stupid Leo let it grow into such a big thing that he turned into a single minded boarder line phycotic who'd fight at the drop of a hat and make Raph look tame by comparision. And again I'm exagerating.

I prefre angst when I know it's going to go somewhere. I've read enough fanfiction where the author thinks the TMNT should be so gritty they would'nt be able to get up in the morning in real life. Hell, I wrote a fic about Don feeling all angsty after the outbreak mutation, but it ended with him just letting go and accepting he was cured.

Originally Posted by tOkKa

Hellllllllooooooo nurse!

[tOkKa]

-->>

[Spawn Guy]

What?

That's hot. I'd go for it.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Personally, I liked Leonardo's portrayal in the movies. He may not have been as assertive, but he still had that compassionate, caring side to him (when Raphael woke up after being beaten up, one of my favorite scenes in the first movie), and that's what I like most about him.

you make a few good points about Movie Leonardo. If any thing else I liked his gentle dispostion and compassion. It was very obvious that he cared about his family, I just wished they had showed a little bit more of that in the movie than what they did. And I understand that there is only so much you can fit into a two hour movie as far as character portrayal goes (and the first movie seemed to spot light Raphael character wise) but I just felt they made him too passive. You know if i was to be honest with my self I think I just really didn't like the movie's choice of voice for Leonardo. It just sounded to geeky and...well I just didn't care for its "going through puberty" because it lacked that firm authoritve quality.

After thinking about this for a bit, it comes across that Leo is taking on a really tough position. He has to lead a clan that is actually very difficult to manage. I'm thinking that Leo is trying really hard to find a good balance between being a strong, decisive leader and being diplomatic. Plus, when his brothers express resentment of him, it seems to hurt him. He really cares what they think of him.
And it looks like he has had to struggle with his own self-importance as a kid in order to deal effectively with the hard knocks of life, and leave behind his childhood naivete on how the world is supposed to be. How many 15-18 (or thereabouts) year olds can truly handle the responsibilities and the challenges he's taking on?
At the same time, Leo seems to want to fit in with his brothers. If he's too legalistic, he will alienate them. If he's too much of a softie, they won't take him seriously enough. I'm just wondering how much of his leadership skills are natural talent and how much of it is learned from the school of hard knocks... okay, I'm rambling, time for a cup of tea.

You are absolutely right about this Aignatius, Leonardo's cross to bear is that he is a warrior that takes on the role of big brother, leader, and peer. It must be pretty hard to juggle all those aspects of his life with one of them causing some conflict. In the New series I think Leo handles this very well while still staying in a good postion with his brothers that lets him be a peer. In the old toon Leonardo seemed to have much harder time balancing these aspects of his life. he was the leader and the other turtles seemed to resent his authority every once in a while, and sarcastically refered to him as "fearless leader" on a regular basis. He was obviously the one that Splinter left in charge and counted on when ever he was away (doing rat stuff supposedly) which ment he had to be a hardass every once in a while, and it seemed like when ever he tried to settle in and just be a teenager with the other guys the other turtles couldn't help but rag on him about it.

If there was anything that made old toon Leonardo an indepth character it was probably his struggle to be a competent leader and maintain his edge while trying not to be to much a goody-two-shoes...gee, did use that saying correctly?

How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

I have to ask every one this but, people who say they like Movie Mikey more because he isn't as annoying as Cartoon Mikey, do you think it could be because with movie Mikey you only get exposure to his character for only about two hours? Unlike cartoon Mikey where you get more exposure to his character over the course of several episdoes that expand his character and you see more of his habits and personality and quirks. In other words if you had as much exposure to Movie Mikey's type of portrayal as you did cartoon Mikey (like say in a series), would you find his persoanlity and habits annoying and unlikable too, or do you think you would still like him?

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

I have to ask every one this but, people who say they like Movie Mikey more because he isn't as annoying as Cartoon Mikey, do you think it could be because with movie Mikey you only get exposure to his character for only about two hours? Unlike cartoon Mikey where you get more exposure to his character over the course of several episdoes that expand his character and you see more of his habits and personality and quirks. In other words if you had as much exposure to Movie Mikey's type of portrayal as you did cartoon Mikey (like say in a series), would you find his persoanlity and habits annoying and unlikable too, or do you think you would still like him?

When I think about it, I'm wondering if in the movie, Mikey has these big brown puppy dog eyes that make it impossible to not like him. He also projects that he likes life, and doesn't want to think about bad stuff. And he pulled pranks on his brothers, but he did it in a way in the movies that came off clever.

In the toon, he has his moments, like in the Jurassic Park episode, he had me in stitches. But most of the time, he seems to be like the filler Turtle in between fights. And his filler is to be the out of this world annoying brother. And I made that assumption after about three episodes of the new toon, and that equals about the same as just one of TMNT movies. It's nothing personal, it's just his antics has made him my least favorite Turtle in the cartoons. In the movies, his nice guy, willing to get you out of funk and make you laugh persona has made him my second favorite character. I just hope they will be able to pull that across in the forth movie. The burp doesn't bother me. As long as he doesn't start to belch the Star Spangled Banner!