Could someone enlighten me.... - Page 2

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-06-2007, 02:00 PM

The way I see it is this.

A fan as every right to bitch and moan, that what a fan does. And it's how a creator knows they have a good property on their hands. But while I'm not saying you should like everything he does, you should at least respect his right to do it.

I know Peter has his reasons for doing what he's doing, I may not know what they are exactly, but I do know that he's doing what he sees as best for his property. And he has every right, becasue it's HIS property. Eastman sold his share, so now Laird calls the shots. It's not about money to man, and I'm sure he's not doing this to please 4 Kids or something, although it could be possible that 4 Kids is having him do this seeing as how some of the TMNT's fanbase are kids but thats a longshot, he doing what he feels is right. And as much as fans like to think it is, what he does with the property isn't up to us. It's up to him. As fans, it's our job to accept it, and either love it or bitch about it.

I can see why he would want to ignore parts of the franchise that he had little to nothing to do with, because that was someone else's vision, not his. And he doesn't want to dwell on someone elses work, he want's to do his own thing.

That's why I have nothing but respect for the man. He does what he wants to do with the book. He doesn't bend to anyone's demands, because he has a vision and he sticks with it. He has a story to tell, and you can either go along with is or get off the boat. I remeber this quote from Joss Whedon, "never give the fans what they want", and I think PL is someone who takes that to heart. To make demands is probably doing the worst thing you can do to a creator, taking his work from him and telling him what to do with his own creation.

Thats where I'mcoming from. I don't just see things from a fans perspective. I try to look at it from the creator's too. I just trust PL 100%. I may not always like everything he does, but I give him respect for doing what he feels he needs to do.

*Roseangelo* · 03-06-2007, 11:24 PM

Blahblahblah. Yes, I have full respect for Peter and the work he's done, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that he does. And no, I don't expect my opinion to mean much to him (quite the opposite, really), but that's not reason enough for me to keep my mouth shut when there's something that I don't like. And I also don't consider it to be good practice to agree with a person 100% just because of who they are and what they're in charge of. Some people need a good kick in the butt every now and then.

What this boils down to for me is I see what Peter is doing to the comics as changing history, and I cannot agree with that in any form. There are countries that alter history in the text books they use to teach in their schools; granted that changing the contents of a comic book is a muchmuch less extreme, but I do consider it along the same lines.

Also, a friend of mine has voiced the thought that Peter could be doing this to take as much of Kevin's work out of the series as possible. I blew this off as rediculous when she first said it, but honestly, the more I look at the new version, the more I can't help but wonder if there's any truth to that. I know Kevin sold his share, but I think it sucks that Kevin's existence seems to be blown off at every opportunity. He's still co-creator dammit.

Ok, onto the comparisons between the original version of #1 and the new version... Dialogue changes can be found on nearly every page and similarly, all depth and detail in the toning has been lost. I'll make notes on the changes that jump out at me most.

Page 1
Original page 1 | New page 1
The shadows of the Purple Dragons has been completely lost on the wall behind the Turtles.

Pages 2-3
Original pages 2-3 | New pages 2-3
From no background shading to background shading. You also have, "Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja" going from black to white and "Turtles" going from toned to empty block letters. It's rather plain.

Pages 4-5
Original page 4, page 5 | New pages 4-5
In the first panel there's a dialogue change from, "Scatter!" to "Blast 'em!" Just below that, "staff" is changed to "bo." On page 5 Raph now has a rectangular box of shading behind him and the middle panel on the right has lost all detail in the background.

Pages 6-7
Original page 6, page 7 | New pages 6-7
On page 6, all background detail has been lost.

Pages 8-9
Original page 8, page 9 | New pages 8-9
On the original page 8, the first panel shows that they're running on the ground, not just in ambiguous space. So much detail was lost on page 9; it's just sad.

Pages 10-11
Original page 10, page 11 | New pages 10-11
The first two panels of page 10 originally showed shadows on the wall. All shading in the third panel is lost. In the fourth panel Splinter is now surrounded by black instead of white. Their ninja skills were, "at their peak," now they're "near their peak." The last sentence on page 10 has been changed completely. The dialogue on page 11 has also been changed significantly and you can now only barely tell that there is a shadow of a person in the background of the last panel. Lots of lost detail in the background of the other panels.

Pages 12-13
Original page 12, page 13 | New pages 12-13
Again, lots of lost detail. The bottom panel of page 12 suffers most. You could originally see the paintings hanging behind Splinter. Some really curious dialogue changes throughout page 13. Almost seems like he's sanitizing it.

Pages 14-15
Original page 14, page 15 | New pages 14-15
Again, sooo much lost detail on both pages. More curious dialogue changes that feel like sanitizing.

Pages 16-17
Original page 16, page 17 | New pages 16-17
Where did all the detail go? And what's with the added line about feral alley cats in the first panel of page 16? Also, in the middle of the page, "in the eyes" was removed, which sorta takes away the Daredevil connection. I really don't like how the second panel on page 17 was changed. The entire panel is now black and "glow" around Splinter is now obviously photoshopped. At the bottom of the page where the Turtles start to speak, the Turtles now say, "Pizza?", "Radical!", "Star Trek!", and "Moto Guzzi!" Star Trek and Moto Guzzi? Gimme a break. And I hate how the last panel has been changed.

Pages 18-19
Original page 18, page 19 | New pages 18-19
Page 18 has pointless dialogue changes. Page 19, IMO, is one of the most classic pages in TMNT comic book history. There is SO much depth in the original, and now all of that depth is gone.

Pages 20-21
Original page 20, page 21 | New pages 20-21
Again, all the fantastic detail gone.

Pages 22-23
Original page 22, page 23 | New pages 22-23
At this point I'm really just repeating myself. On page 23 the text of the note has been completely redone. I would consider this part of the art and not susceptible to lettering changes.

Pages 24-25
Original page 24, page 25 | New pages 24-25
The Turtles used to have visible eyes in the last panel of page 24.

Pages 26-27
Original page 26, page 27 | New pages 26-27
It's pages like page 27 where you can really notice how the change in lettering can take away from the intensity of what you are seeing. "Come face your DOOM!" just doesn't have the same effect in computer font. The lost detail continues to make me want to cry.

Pages 28-29
Original pages 28-29 | New pages 28-29
Another page where the lost detail just makes me sad.

(To be continued... I have to break this into two posts.)

*Roseangelo* · 03-06-2007, 11:25 PM

Pages 30-31
Original page 30, page 31 | New pages 30-31
Same complaints.

Pages 32-33
Original pages 32, pages 33 | New pages 32-33
There's no longer any blood in the first horizontal panel on page 32 (although there is still blood in the next panel down). Page 33 has an interesting dialogue change of "gaijin" to "kappa."

Pages 34-35
Original page 34, page 35 | New pages 34-35
Same old complaints.

Pages 36-37
Original page 36, page 37 | New pages 36-37
Shredder no longer says, "HAI!!" in the second to last panel on page 36. On page 37, "katana" has been changed to "blade."

Pages 38-39
Original page 38, page 39 | New pages 38-39
In the last panel of page 38 you can't even tell anymore that there was an explosion. On page 39 a completely new dialogue balloon has been added, giving Donatello the line, "... and some tea..." At the top of the page, Michaelangelo now calls Leonardo, "Leo."

Page 40
Original page 40 | New page 40
This is another page that makes me especially sad that so much detail was lost. And I'm not sure why italics are suddenly used (Leonardo's opening narration did not use italics). (Gimme a break, I work as an editor and have to pay attention to things like italics.)

So overall, I think the thing that saddens me most is just how much detail was lost in the re-toning. They obviously put a lot of work into the original art and I don't know why you would want to erase it all with a computer.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 12:03 AM

*Whew*, for a second there, you had me worried that the changes were radical(radical as in extreme). But they're not really that bad. I can see that he went in an, like I though, just cleaned it up. Made the drawings stand out more.

I have a reprint of issuse 1, 3rd print. When compared. I don't notice much of a difference. The drawings are lighter. Thats about it. The detail is still there.

Whats the problem?

*Roseangelo* · 03-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have a problem with it. I've explained my issues and I'm not going to re-explain it.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 12:13 AM

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be pissed. Be pissed.

I just don't see the problem with the changes.

*VaughnMichael* · 03-07-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Also, a friend of mine has voiced the thought that Peter could be doing this to take as much of Kevin's work out of the series as possible. I blew this off as rediculous when she first said it, but honestly, the more I look at the new version, the more I can't help but wonder if there's any truth to that. I know Kevin sold his share, but I think it sucks that Kevin's existence seems to be blown off at every opportunity. He's still co-creator dammit.

I'm not the friend you're speaking of but this is exactly what was on my mind as well Rose and I am really starting to think it's true...I know if laird is reading this He'll get really mad but I always found Kevin to be the more creative of the 2 it really shows in the 2k3 show and volume 4.
Now I'm gonna go look at all of you're links and give my opinion.

*VaughnMichael* · 03-07-2007, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

*Whew*, for a second there, you had me worried that the changes were radical(radical as in extreme). But they're not really that bad. I can see that he went in an, like I though, just cleaned it up. Made the drawings stand out more.

I have a reprint of issuse 1, 3rd print. When compared. I don't notice much of a difference. The drawings are lighter. Thats about it. The detail is still there.

Whats the problem?

wow man I own an orignal copy of number one and all the reprints they have really messed up this issue...can't you see that?
He's actully doing more now than I thought he was...this is his thing I know but it's just so odd and seems pointless and a waste of time.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

wow man I own an orignal copy of number one and all the reprints they have really messed up this issue...can't you see that?
He's actully doing more now than I thought he was...this is his thing I know but it's just so odd and seems pointless and a waste of time.

There must be some good reason. But I really see no problem with the issue. All he did was clean it up some. He didn't take out anything, at least anything noticiable. At least he didn't replace all the guns and weapons with walkie talkies. And at least the Turtles still struck first.

Quote:

I'm not the friend you're speaking of but this is exactly what was on my mind as well Rose and I am really starting to think it's true...I know if laird is reading this He'll get really mad but I always found Kevin to be the more creative of the 2 it really shows in the 2k3 show and volume 4.
Now I'm gonna go look at all of you're links and give my opinion.

If he was reading that, I doubt he'd really care. That's not the first time he's been accused of being the less talented. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would dwell on something like that and get really pissed. He'd listen to your opinion. And keep going with his work.

And to Rose: Do you really think he'd disrespect Eastman like that. Theres been no bad blood between the two. Maybe if he changed the title to Peter Laird's TMNT, but I can't see PL ever doing something as low as that.

*VaughnMichael* · 03-07-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

There must be some good reason. But I really see no problem with the issue. All he did was clean it up some. He didn't take out anything, at least anything noticiable. At least he didn't replace all the guns and weapons with walkie talkies. And at least the Turtles still struck first.

true but I can see allot of people being ticked off about him changing words and taking things out...and using allot of photoshop over the art...it really takes away from it all as you can see.
Also allot of people hate when the turtles names are shortend.
don't see the reason for katana to now be called blade.?
Splinter does not need a photoshop glow around him...any person who uses photoshop for a job on a daily basis knows thats chease!
True he didn't give them walkie talkies thatd wuld be just silly.
I wouldn't mind if he just took out the colorfull language and left it at that i really wouldnt mind that doesnt bother me I know he wants kids to read the book.
Oh well I'll just pass on buying anything he re-makes and keep all my oldies close to my heart.

I'm off to dream land now hah & no not the one from the archie comics I wish!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

If he was reading that, I doubt he'd really care. That's not the first time he's been accused of being the less talented. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would dwell on something like that and get really pissed. He'd listen to your opinion. And keep going with his work.

And to Rose: Do you really think he'd disrespect Eastman like that. Theres been no bad blood between the two. Maybe if he changed the title to Peter Laird's TMNT, but I can't see PL ever doing something as low as that.

I don't know man I'm a pretty good judge of character and he gives me that sort of attitude as a person.
And he says he doesnt care but even the strongest minded person hurts atleast a bit inside when you tell them some ones better than them.
I think lairds a great artist or well was he doesn't really do diddly squat anymore besides be a business man.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 03:25 AM

G'night. And remember, it could be worse. He could have Jim Lawson redraw everything.

*VaughnMichael* · 03-07-2007, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

G'night. And remember, it could be worse. He could have Jim Lawson redraw everything.

argh geez man thanks now I'm gonna have nightmares hahaha.
Actully I'm no longer gonna rip on Jim's new art cause I think I've discoverd the prolem if you go to Eric Talbots website and look at his art and then look at Jim lawsons art you will notice something they would not look very well together would they now....hmm guess who's inking volume 4 and Jim's art.
yes none other than Eric who happens to be one of my all time fave tmnt artist as well as general art faves. But the 2 of them just look so bad together he really shouldnt be inking Jim's art Michael Dooney should be or even peter laird himself...or some one anyon who doesn't ink with such dark heavey lines.
ok goodnight

*Roseangelo* · 03-07-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

If he was reading that, I doubt he'd really care. That's not the first time he's been accused of being the less talented. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would dwell on something like that and get really pissed. He'd listen to your opinion. And keep going with his work.

I don't know how he'd deal with such a statement, but from what I've seen, he really doesn't deal with critisism well. At best he'll tell you not to buy his comic book.

Quote:

And to Rose: Do you really think he'd disrespect Eastman like that. Theres been no bad blood between the two. Maybe if he changed the title to Peter Laird's TMNT, but I can't see PL ever doing something as low as that.

I don't know where you've gotten the idea that there's no bad blood between the two. While each is incredibly respectful of the other in public, the two of them really do not get along anymore at all. Like I said, I wish I couldn't think this way, but it does still feel like he's trying to take as much of Kevin out of the whole thing as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Actully I'm no longer gonna rip on Jim's new art cause I think I've discoverd the prolem if you go to Eric Talbots website and look at his art and then look at Jim lawsons art you will notice something they would not look very well together would they now....hmm guess who's inking volume 4 and Jim's art.
yes none other than Eric who happens to be one of my all time fave tmnt artist as well as general art faves. But the 2 of them just look so bad together he really shouldnt be inking Jim's art Michael Dooney should be or even peter laird himself...or some one anyon who doesn't ink with such dark heavey lines.

I love Eric Talbot's work and I also love his inks when combined with the pencils of certain artists, but I have to agree that Eric and Jim are not a good combination and that this team-up is probably partially responsible for the overwhelming dislike of the art in volume 4. There's a huge difference between the volume 4 work at the CaW & Vol. 2 work and I really like that older stuff. Although I also think that Jim has become lazy in his drawing. Not all of the volume 4 problems can be blamed on the inks, the inks just haven't helped things out.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I don't know how he'd deal with such a statement, but from what I've seen, he really doesn't deal with critisism well. At best he'll tell you not to buy his comic book.

I don't think it's that. I just don't think he cares about the criticisms.

Quote:

I don't know where you've gotten the idea that there's no bad blood between the two. While each is incredibly respectful of the other in public, the two of them really do not get along anymore at all. Like I said, I wish I couldn't think this way, but it does still feel like he's trying to take as much of Kevin out of the whole thing as possible.

Am I missing something here? I know they had differing ideas on where the property should go, thats why Eastman left. But they split on respectful terms.

I don't expect they hang out together, but is there realy hostility?

*Roseangelo* · 03-07-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

I don't expect they hang out together, but is there realy hostility?

No, I don't think there's hostility. I just have reason to believe that Peter wants the TMNT to be HIS property, with as little involvement from Kevin as possible. Present, furture, AND past.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 03-07-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

No, I don't think there's hostility. I just have reason to believe that Peter wants the TMNT to be HIS property, with as little involvement from Kevin as possible. Present, furture, AND past.

Well thats just ****ed up. Well like I said, it's hard for me to see anyone doing that, especially someone as humble as Laird, but what you say could be true.

Still, let's wait and see what he does from here.

Lone Wolf · 03-07-2007, 07:12 PM

For what it is worth, I am thankful to have an individual as passionate and dedicated to the TMNT as Peter Laird behind the franchise. When the chips were down, Laird was the impetus to bringing them back, and Kevin Eastman had no interest in having anything more to do with it. Lets not forget that.

Edit: Just now noticed your reply.

*Roseangelo* · 03-07-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

...and Kevin Eastman had no interest in having anything more to do with it. Lets not forget that.

That's really not true. Kevin definitely still has interest in the TMNT. But at the time that he sold his share the franchise was doing nothing and if the franchise WERE to do anything, he and Peter would have to agree and approve whatever was to be done. That's not easy to do when you're not friends anymore (and you have differing points of view). It was really in the best interest of the franchise that one of them sell their share. With Kevin in LA and busy publishing Heavy Metal, it seems like a pretty common sense decision to me.

**Jester** · 03-07-2007, 08:37 PM

Rose, some of the pics are "unavaliable"

*Roseangelo* · 03-07-2007, 08:39 PM

Hmm... They should all be working. Can you be more specific about which ones you're having trouble with?

03-06-2007, 11:24 PM	#22
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,115	Blahblahblah. Yes, I have full respect for Peter and the work he's done, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that he does. And no, I don't expect my opinion to mean much to him (quite the opposite, really), but that's not reason enough for me to keep my mouth shut when there's something that I don't like. And I also don't consider it to be good practice to agree with a person 100% just because of who they are and what they're in charge of. Some people need a good kick in the butt every now and then. What this boils down to for me is I see what Peter is doing to the comics as changing history, and I cannot agree with that in any form. There are countries that alter history in the text books they use to teach in their schools; granted that changing the contents of a comic book is a muchmuch less extreme, but I do consider it along the same lines. Also, a friend of mine has voiced the thought that Peter could be doing this to take as much of Kevin's work out of the series as possible. I blew this off as rediculous when she first said it, but honestly, the more I look at the new version, the more I can't help but wonder if there's any truth to that. I know Kevin sold his share, but I think it sucks that Kevin's existence seems to be blown off at every opportunity. He's still co-creator dammit. Ok, onto the comparisons between the original version of #1 and the new version... Dialogue changes can be found on nearly every page and similarly, all depth and detail in the toning has been lost. I'll make notes on the changes that jump out at me most. Page 1 Original page 1 \| New page 1 The shadows of the Purple Dragons has been completely lost on the wall behind the Turtles. Pages 2-3 Original pages 2-3 \| New pages 2-3 From no background shading to background shading. You also have, "Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja" going from black to white and "Turtles" going from toned to empty block letters. It's rather plain. Pages 4-5 Original page 4, page 5 \| New pages 4-5 In the first panel there's a dialogue change from, "Scatter!" to "Blast 'em!" Just below that, "staff" is changed to "bo." On page 5 Raph now has a rectangular box of shading behind him and the middle panel on the right has lost all detail in the background. Pages 6-7 Original page 6, page 7 \| New pages 6-7 On page 6, all background detail has been lost. Pages 8-9 Original page 8, page 9 \| New pages 8-9 On the original page 8, the first panel shows that they're running on the ground, not just in ambiguous space. So much detail was lost on page 9; it's just sad. Pages 10-11 Original page 10, page 11 \| New pages 10-11 The first two panels of page 10 originally showed shadows on the wall. All shading in the third panel is lost. In the fourth panel Splinter is now surrounded by black instead of white. Their ninja skills were, "at their peak," now they're "near their peak." The last sentence on page 10 has been changed completely. The dialogue on page 11 has also been changed significantly and you can now only barely tell that there is a shadow of a person in the background of the last panel. Lots of lost detail in the background of the other panels. Pages 12-13 Original page 12, page 13 \| New pages 12-13 Again, lots of lost detail. The bottom panel of page 12 suffers most. You could originally see the paintings hanging behind Splinter. Some really curious dialogue changes throughout page 13. Almost seems like he's sanitizing it. Pages 14-15 Original page 14, page 15 \| New pages 14-15 Again, sooo much lost detail on both pages. More curious dialogue changes that feel like sanitizing. Pages 16-17 Original page 16, page 17 \| New pages 16-17 Where did all the detail go? And what's with the added line about feral alley cats in the first panel of page 16? Also, in the middle of the page, "in the eyes" was removed, which sorta takes away the Daredevil connection. I really don't like how the second panel on page 17 was changed. The entire panel is now black and "glow" around Splinter is now obviously photoshopped. At the bottom of the page where the Turtles start to speak, the Turtles now say, "Pizza?", "Radical!", "Star Trek!", and "Moto Guzzi!" Star Trek and Moto Guzzi? Gimme a break. And I hate how the last panel has been changed. Pages 18-19 Original page 18, page 19 \| New pages 18-19 Page 18 has pointless dialogue changes. Page 19, IMO, is one of the most classic pages in TMNT comic book history. There is SO much depth in the original, and now all of that depth is gone. Pages 20-21 Original page 20, page 21 \| New pages 20-21 Again, all the fantastic detail gone. Pages 22-23 Original page 22, page 23 \| New pages 22-23 At this point I'm really just repeating myself. On page 23 the text of the note has been completely redone. I would consider this part of the art and not susceptible to lettering changes. Pages 24-25 Original page 24, page 25 \| New pages 24-25 The Turtles used to have visible eyes in the last panel of page 24. Pages 26-27 Original page 26, page 27 \| New pages 26-27 It's pages like page 27 where you can really notice how the change in lettering can take away from the intensity of what you are seeing. "Come face your DOOM!" just doesn't have the same effect in computer font. The lost detail continues to make me want to cry. Pages 28-29 Original pages 28-29 \| New pages 28-29 Another page where the lost detail just makes me sad. (To be continued... I have to break this into two posts.) __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com Last edited by Roseangelo; 03-06-2007 at 11:34 PM.

03-06-2007, 11:25 PM	#23
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,115	Pages 30-31 Original page 30, page 31 \| New pages 30-31 Same complaints. Pages 32-33 Original pages 32, pages 33 \| New pages 32-33 There's no longer any blood in the first horizontal panel on page 32 (although there is still blood in the next panel down). Page 33 has an interesting dialogue change of "gaijin" to "kappa." Pages 34-35 Original page 34, page 35 \| New pages 34-35 Same old complaints. Pages 36-37 Original page 36, page 37 \| New pages 36-37 Shredder no longer says, "HAI!!" in the second to last panel on page 36. On page 37, "katana" has been changed to "blade." Pages 38-39 Original page 38, page 39 \| New pages 38-39 In the last panel of page 38 you can't even tell anymore that there was an explosion. On page 39 a completely new dialogue balloon has been added, giving Donatello the line, "... and some tea..." At the top of the page, Michaelangelo now calls Leonardo, "Leo." Page 40 Original page 40 \| New page 40 This is another page that makes me especially sad that so much detail was lost. And I'm not sure why italics are suddenly used (Leonardo's opening narration did not use italics). (Gimme a break, I work as an editor and have to pay attention to things like italics.) So overall, I think the thing that saddens me most is just how much detail was lost in the re-toning. They obviously put a lot of work into the original art and I don't know why you would want to erase it all with a computer. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

03-07-2007, 12:08 AM	#25
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,115	Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have a problem with it. I've explained my issues and I'm not going to re-explain it. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

03-07-2007, 07:12 PM	#37
Lone Wolf Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 160	For what it is worth, I am thankful to have an individual as passionate and dedicated to the TMNT as Peter Laird behind the franchise. When the chips were down, Laird was the impetus to bringing them back, and Kevin Eastman had no interest in having anything more to do with it. Lets not forget that. Edit: Just now noticed your reply. __________________ "You may destroy me... but I will not live in fear!"

03-07-2007, 08:37 PM	#39
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,298	Rose, some of the pics are "unavaliable" __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

03-06-2007, 02:00 PM	#21
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	The way I see it is this. A fan as every right to bitch and moan, that what a fan does. And it's how a creator knows they have a good property on their hands. But while I'm not saying you should like everything he does, you should at least respect his right to do it. I know Peter has his reasons for doing what he's doing, I may not know what they are exactly, but I do know that he's doing what he sees as best for his property. And he has every right, becasue it's HIS property. Eastman sold his share, so now Laird calls the shots. It's not about money to man, and I'm sure he's not doing this to please 4 Kids or something, although it could be possible that 4 Kids is having him do this seeing as how some of the TMNT's fanbase are kids but thats a longshot, he doing what he feels is right. And as much as fans like to think it is, what he does with the property isn't up to us. It's up to him. As fans, it's our job to accept it, and either love it or bitch about it. I can see why he would want to ignore parts of the franchise that he had little to nothing to do with, because that was someone else's vision, not his. And he doesn't want to dwell on someone elses work, he want's to do his own thing. That's why I have nothing but respect for the man. He does what he wants to do with the book. He doesn't bend to anyone's demands, because he has a vision and he sticks with it. He has a story to tell, and you can either go along with is or get off the boat. I remeber this quote from Joss Whedon, "never give the fans what they want", and I think PL is someone who takes that to heart. To make demands is probably doing the worst thing you can do to a creator, taking his work from him and telling him what to do with his own creation. Thats where I'mcoming from. I don't just see things from a fans perspective. I try to look at it from the creator's too. I just trust PL 100%. I may not always like everything he does, but I give him respect for doing what he feels he needs to do.

03-07-2007, 12:03 AM	#24
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	Whew, for a second there, you had me worried that the changes were radical(radical as in extreme). But they're not really that bad. I can see that he went in an, like I though, just cleaned it up. Made the drawings stand out more. I have a reprint of issuse 1, 3rd print. When compared. I don't notice much of a difference. The drawings are lighter. Thats about it. The detail is still there. Whats the problem?

03-07-2007, 12:13 AM	#26
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	I'm not saying you don't have a right to be pissed. Be pissed. I just don't see the problem with the changes.

03-07-2007, 03:25 AM	#31
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	G'night. And remember, it could be worse. He could have Jim Lawson redraw everything.

03-07-2007, 08:39 PM	#40
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,115	Hmm... They should all be working. Can you be more specific about which ones you're having trouble with? __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com