Guess What Kids? Another New Clip!

[triplexxx]

Originally Posted by Spawn Guy

That dosen't answer my question.

And that works in a normal family. But Leo also has to play field commander, which I feel a lot of people over look. He's the leader yes, but that dosen't mean he's in charge of what they do with their lives or what they do between fighting whatever is a threat to the city or the planet. That's up to them, but a large part of their lives is the discipline of ninjas, acting as a disciplined unit (Yes, including Raph, however reluctant he may be) and they don't have that anymore. They need a leader as much as a brother, and Leo is supposed to be better than he was a year ago. And he screwed up. He's responsible, as a leader not just an older brother, he's responsible for them as a fighting unit. And they did poorly, while he was supposed to bring them together. And Splinter called him on it, especially when he tries to pawn the blame off on Raph. That dosen't sound like an improved leader or a mature brother, so why shouldn't Leo face that?

Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Your expecting Splinter to do too much for them. They're growing up now and Splinter's getting older, they have to start learning how to make decisions for themselves, Splinter can now only guide them the best he can.

[johnnyblaze]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

so are you saying he should have sent them all out? maybe he did'nt because he thought they were'nt ready yet or maybe he felt that this was not the right type of training neccessary for Raph, Mike and Don, but it was for Leo. maybe he just thought this was the path Leo needed to take for his training. considering they are all individuals and their skills and ability to handle situations are going to vary it makes sense that maybe he woud choose the most dedicated student on a mission across the world to sharpen his skills to the point where he will be better for the rest of them.

and all Splinter wanted was for the other 3 not to go out and fight crime. That's it. He wanted them to hold off on the superhero stuff until all 4 were brought back together. What's wrong with him not wanting them to engage enemies as anything other than a team? And why are you assuming he did'nt talk to the other turtles about Leo leaving? How they end up handling it is going to vary

Spoiler:

especially when Leo ended up being gone longer than he was supposed to be as shown in the clip when Leo apologized for being gone so long.

[triplexxx]

No, I'm not talking about the arrangements he made a year ago, I'm talking about the arrangements he made after Leonardo came back, like when he arranged for Leonardo to take them out and work out on the rooftops, he talks only to him about it and just expects the others to follow along. He should've talked to all of them about this arrangement and given them each a part to play in it, or maybe just make a separate arrangement for each one of them so that they all could be given a chance to reach out to their brothers, and since he knows his sons, he should be able to create a series of arrangements that will allow them all to fulfill their own position on the team. Because like I said, a good leader is just one of many things it takes to run a fighting team of ninjas, and they couldn't function properly without any one of them (so you were right about not doing anything until Leonardo came back).

so are you saying he should have sent them all out? maybe he did'nt because he thought they were'nt ready yet or maybe he felt that this was not the right type of training neccessary for Raph, Mike and Don, but it was for Leo. maybe he just thought this was the path Leo needed to take for his training. considering they are all individuals and their skills and ability to handle situations are going to vary it makes sense that maybe he woud choose the most dedicated student on a mission across the world to sharpen his skills to the point where he will be better for the rest of them.

Well, maybe this was just where his judgment went wrong. Like you said they all are individual, but though their abilities to handle situations do vary, they do so very little, and they're all very self-sufficient. If he wants them being a team, he should make them do things together as a team and have them all be making efforts to better themselves. By doing this, he triggered their separation in the first place. He thought it was a good idea at first, but apparently it wasn't.

[johnnyblaze]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Well, maybe this was just where his judgment went wrong. Like you said they all are individual, but though their abilities to handle situations do vary, they do so very little, and they're all very self-sufficient. If he wants them being a team, he should make them do things together as a team and have them all be making efforts to better themselves. By doing this, he triggered their separation in the first place. He thought it was a good idea at first, but apparently it wasn't.

he wants them to fight crime as a team--with a better leader. so he took the opportunity (after they defeated the big bad guy Shredder) to have Leo step up his training. I still don't see whats wrong with that. Yes it ended up dividing the turtles (Raphael more than the others) when Leo was gone longer than he was supposed to be gone but I still don't see why this would leave to negative feeling about Splinter sending Leo to step up his training. He wants them to have a good leader. he told them not to fight crime until Leo came back and they were 4 again. in the meantime they did their own thing--all he asked was that they don't fight crime, not that they don't be individuals and better themselves. just because he does'nt want them out on the streets just yet does'nt mean he's trying to hold them back. they can still train, they can still meditate, they can still work together, they can still pursue those interests they always had, get jobs etc. All he wanted was for them not to fight crime until Leo came back from the training mission he was sent on, a mission designed to make him even better for them. What is so wrong about that?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Hey kiddies, gues what?


Number 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMuwNGCZF0

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Hey kiddies, gues what?


Number 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMuwNGCZF0

Dammit, I can't take another one of these... Just give me the whole movie in one dose, already...

[triplexxx]

so he took the opportunity (after they defeated the big bad guy Shredder) to have Leo step up his training. I still don't see whats wrong with that. Yes it ended up dividing the turtles (Raphael more than the others) when Leo was gone longer than he was supposed to be gone but I still don't see why this would leave to negative feeling about Splinter sending Leo to step up his training.

That's just the point: he shouldn't have divided them up in the first place. It's good that he wants his son to better himself, but by not allowing the others the same privledge, that in itself breaks the whole team dynamic. Because no matter how good any one of them are, the message this movie is supposed to convey is: Teamwork will always be their greatest asset. The most important things they learn in training are things they learn when they "train together". If Splinter had had them all train together, he'd have gotten better results: they'd all be stronger as both individuals AND as a team.

In Return To New York arc, they accomplished defeating Shredder with everybody's efforts, same with the whole Turtles In Space, Space Invaders, & Worlds Collide episode arcs, and I don't know how many one-part episodes they also worked together.

Spoiler:

Did you watch the Lost Season? Did you remember in New World Order 2 when they first called upon AND transformed into the dragons? They accomplished that by doing it together

They accomplish the most in battle when they do it together, and their training should be no different.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Thats just the thing, they're teenagers. Obviously they're not going to do everything together. In the comics they've had plenty of adventures solo. Plus, they have other intrest. Leo was off pursuing his. Plus, Leo is the more advanced in skill, so it's only natural he'd advance to the next level before the others. Point is, families can't be expected to do EVERYTHING together.

If the other Turtles were as dedicated as Leo, then splinter probably would have sent them off to train like Leo. Someone, I forget who, gave a good analogy, Leo is like the kid who goes off to college and the others are like the brother, or brothers, who stayed behind to work in the family business.

Splinter want's them to work together, but he also acknowledges that they have seperte intrest they must follow. He just wan't to make sure that they're family/team wont dissolve to the point where they forget about each other completley.

[Spawn Guy]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

That would make a fascinating 81 or so minutes worth of entertainment.

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

If the other Turtles were as dedicated as Leo, then splinter probably would have sent them off to train like Leo. Someone, I forget who, gave a good analogy, Leo is like the kid who goes off to college and the others are like the brother, or brothers, who stayed behind to work in the family business.

The director.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

^ Ah, arigatoo tomodachi

[Spawn Guy]

That better be Spanish for "I'm going to make you a sandwich."

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spawn Guy

That better be Spanish for "I'm going to make you a sandwich."

No, it's Japanese for Thanks Friend

[Spawn Guy]

Oh.



So, you can't make your friend a sandwich?

[johnnyblaze]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

That's just the point: he shouldn't have divided them up in the first place. It's good that he wants his son to better himself, but by not allowing the others the same privledge, that in itself breaks the whole team dynamic. Because no matter how good any one of them are, the message this movie is supposed to convey is: Teamwork will always be their greatest asset. The most important things they learn in training are things they learn when they "train together". If Splinter had had them all train together, he'd have gotten better results: they'd all be stronger as both individuals AND as a team.

In Return To New York arc, they accomplished defeating Shredder with everybody's efforts, same with the whole Turtles In Space, Space Invaders, & Worlds Collide episode arcs, and I don't know how many one-part episodes they also worked together.

Spoiler:

Did you watch the Lost Season? Did you remember in New World Order 2 when they first called upon AND transformed into the dragons? They accomplished that by doing it together

They accomplish the most in battle when they do it together, and their training should be no different.

Leonardo is the leader. He wants to be and Splinter wants him to be. But to be a good leader he needs the right skills so he sent him to get them. Its a mission he thought would make Leo better for his role on the team. Whose to say he won't come up with individual missions for the others and their training? Infact if you want some spoilers from the novel

Spoiler:

(Raphael having to lead the team to save Leo is his training. He gets a medallion like Leo and Splinter tells him that their training is not all the same and works in different ways)

could he have done it with the other 3? yeah, but it was'nt their mission. It was a personal mission for Leo, something he needed to do alone at a time where it was good and safe for him to do so. It was designed to strengthen the team by giving them a stronger foundation to fall back on. That way when he returns and they have to get into it with the bad guys they can be even better. For freaks sake what is so wrong with wanting to give them a better leader?

Yes teamwork will be their strongest asset and it will continue to be and yes they accomplish the most in battle when they work together --that does'nt mean he should be afraid to seperate them in order to strengthen them at various points in their developments, especially when they are'nt even in a fight and are simply training. They are all different. All at different levels of skill and talents. Its good that they have to depend on each other but its also good to give them the chance to do their own thing, take on their own missions, build their own skills. Give them a chance to grow when they are at the point where they need to grow and strengthen themselves--even if they have to do it solo.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spawn Guy

Oh.



So, you can't make your friend a sandwich?

Not unless I see 5 dollars from said friend.

[Spawn Guy]

I knew you only wanted me for my money.

*Ca-ching*

Ham please.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spawn Guy

I knew you only wanted me for my money.

*Ca-ching*

Ham please.

All we have is Bologna

[johnnyblaze]

i'm surprised there are'nt more reviews out on the net

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by johnnyblaze

i'm surprised there are'nt more reviews out on the net

I haven't seen many reviews, but the whole plot of the movie has now been put up on the TMNT wikipedia page.

Intresting though, it says the seens featuring Jet and P.O.D's songs recieved applause from the Portland audience.