The Next Mutation - Can someone explain to me?

Gothamite · 04-15-2007, 06:07 AM

Having only seen the first five episodes of this show, I have some idea why it isn't liked; but I view it the same way as I view the OT. Why is it then that so many people hate it? Is it Venus De Milo and the sheer concept of her or is it just the unneccessary campiness of the show?

Ra · 04-15-2007, 06:21 AM

I guess it was just the way it was done. I liked the show as a kid, but then again, what does a 4 year old know? Bad costumes was another thing I distinctly remember being an upset, and Venus' lack of fluent English. It was good for a time, yes, but it just wore thin after a while. And the fact that she didn't really have a weapon sort of helped along with the hatred for her. It's kind of like an unwritten rule - you can't be a Ninja Turtle without a bandanna and a decent weapon. Also the Dragon Lord...sheesh, I don't know. Apparently he was way to much like a Power Rangers villain. That's my limited knowledge on the subject. Someone else will surely have more answers than I do.

The Shelf · 04-15-2007, 12:13 PM

I remember being utterly confused about why there was a fifth and female turtle and why there was a dragon-ish character running around in a live action show. Maybe it was just too Power Ranger-ish for a turtles show? I honestly can't pin it down to any one thing anymore because it's been too long since I've seen it, but I didn't like Venus and I didn't like the villain. If they left those two things out, it would have been way better.

*CyberCubed* · 04-15-2007, 02:44 PM

It was Power Rangers with the Turtles instead, that's why it wasn't liked.

Not to mention it was cheesy, remember those horrible Saban sound effects they'd use during the fight scenes?

Awful. Its the worst TMNT incarnation out of anything ever produced, even worse than those "Coming out of their Shells" tours.

wyze2099 · 04-15-2007, 04:41 PM

As I've stated elsewhere, I think "Next Mutation" could have been interesting, but it was completely sabotaged by its execution.

While a lot of people attack the character of Venus on general principle, I think the idea of a female Turtle is potentially neat; a lot could have been done with it. What's it like to be one of only five creatures of a kind on the planet, and to grow up thinking in the Turtles' case) that there were only four, or (in Mei Peih Chi's case) that there was only one? What would it be like to give up the life she'd established for herself to reunite with her brothers ... only to find that it's such a tight-knight group that she could only feel like a constant outsider (and not just for being female; I have to wonder how a long-lost brother would have integrated into the group)?

The problem with Venus was in the way they handled the character. Her status as an immigrant was mostly played for laughs, so what we got was a thick accent and constant butchering of the English language (which, while understandable, made her feel more like a stereotype than an actual character). She was made to be a possible love interest for one of the male turtles, so it was outright stated that none of the turtles were related by blood, which sabotages the franchise's strong family feel. Not because a lack of blood relation would make them any less of a family (after all, they consider their father to be a rat), but because they have such a strong sense of family that welcoming Venus into the fold and then flirting with her seems incredibly incestuous. They could say that none of the Turtles are actually related, but given the way they act, it's hard to believe it.

And then there's Mei Peih Chi's nickname: she's more well known by the moniker the other Turtles had given her than by the name given to her by her sensei Chung I. Unfortunately, rather than naming her after a Renaissance artist like the others were, she was named after a work of art. Granted, there probably weren't a lot of notable women in Italy's Renaissance movement, but the choice of nickname seems to perpetuate the idea of women as objects instead of equals.

The show was also hampered by the insertion of juvenile elements at every level. Besides the poor writing (which ended up suggesting that shinobi is a mystical discipline completely separate from the ninja arts, rather than just being another term for a ninja), really corny sound effects and catchphrases peppered almost every minute of the series. While it makes sense that the Turtles had mimicked human pop culture while growing up, there's more to the turtles' peronalities than just the parroting of turtle-related slang. And the sound effects were so cartoonish that it was like watching an episode of "Beakman's World" ... only without intelligent things being said.

And finally, the series actually had, at first glance, a dark, urban feel. Plenty of scenes took place at night. Establishing shots showed stock footage of NYC, and the Turtles themselves were sculpted to look more intimidating and brooding. But that was completely at odds with the fact that the show was aimed at an even younger audience than the Power Rangers. That, coupled with the garish costuming details on the Turtles and other characters, made the show rather hard to watch.

There might have been an interesting TV show somewhere in the "Next Mutation"'s premise, but ultimately it became one of the lowest points in the TMNT franchise by failing in every possible way a Turtles show could fail.

The Shelf · 04-15-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyze2099

But that was completely at odds with the fact that the show was aimed at an even younger audience than the Power Rangers.

Wait, hasn't Power Rangers always been geared toward 4-10 year-olds? I don't think Turtles was ever geared toward toddlers...

*ZariusTwo* · 04-15-2007, 09:35 PM

Power Rangers had at least several multiple cases of characters killing themselves for one reason or another (Zordon, Kendrix, the suicide bombing Stingwingers etc), that obviously means it's good ,educational, clean fun

Of course I'm referring to the Judd Lynn period of the series where everything was a lot more mature than it is now, (nothing but explosions and wire-fu, and stereotyped Hollwood by-product characters being used to keep the writing team interested in a job they clearly don't want to do...)

*VaughnMichael* · 04-15-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Power Rangers had at least several multiple cases of characters killing themselves for one reason or another (Zordon, Kendrix, the suicide bombing Stingwingers etc), good educational, clean fun for the audience

Yeah I sure was really sad when Lord Zed and Rita got turned back to normal and all the aliens got killed also. bla that sucked.

*ZariusTwo* · 04-15-2007, 09:39 PM

Zordon, the racist swine, had no problem "redeeming" humans turned evil, and wiped out aliens, loved that moral, oh yes.

The anniversary reunion team-up is supposedly featuring the son of Lord Zedd and Rita

*VaughnMichael* · 04-15-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Zordon, the racist swine, had no problem "redeeming" humans turned evil, and wiped out aliens, loved that moral, oh yes.

The anniversary reunion team-up is supposedly featuring the son of Lord Zedd and Rita

Yeah that big jerk Zordon *kicks him in his bloated fat floating head* haha
And Holy Crap really! Will this be on Disney or what? That's really cool exciting news! Lord Zedd was one of my all time favorite villains.

**Jester** · 04-15-2007, 09:45 PM

I didn't like Venus for the sheer fact that she was thrown in and it did break up the family dynamic. To have Leo say that they're "not brothers," that they were "pet shop Turtles, born and bred on a Turtle farm," turned me off right there.

*ZariusTwo* · 04-15-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

And Holy Crap really! Will this be on Disney or what? That's really cool exciting news! Lord Zedd was one of my all time favorite villains.

It's legit, the team-up will consist of select Rangers from at least most of the Disney seasons (not entire teams, as several former NZ actors are now in America) and one Ranger from the earliest seasons of the series: Adam.

*VaughnMichael* · 04-15-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's legit, the team-up will consist of select Rangers from at least most of the Disney seasons (not entire teams, as several former NZ actors are now in America) and one Ranger from the earliest seasons of the series: Adam.

Oh this is really cool I'll be watching this for sure.

Tora_Chan · 04-16-2007, 05:57 AM

Agreed, I've seen female turtles in fanfics that worked well. Venus just had too many things wrong with her, mainly that she was a huge Mary Sue. Let's see:

- She mangled the TMNT's origin story by being the fifth turtle in the jar, which Leo oh-so-convinitely remembers.

- Claiming that Shinobis are somehow not Ninjas, but some kind of mystical magic users.

- Having magic powers and being able to beat all for of the guys in battle using martial arts. She was also the most socially concious of the group and always turned out to be right in any argument (wanting to save the "baby" turtle, trusting the good dragon and so on).

- By being the only being able to got through meditation into the dream world by herself apart from Splinter and Chung I. Leo somehow never meditated or even heard of this dream world before.

- Reducing the guys to some kind of brawn, but no brain guys. They also acted incredibly OOC, constantly making fun of anything mystical or magical she told them about, especially Donatello. He was often outright hostile towards her, which seems even stranger considering the series seemed to take place after the original three movies, where they traveled through time.

- Beat the Shredder all by herself using her magical mind powers. The Shredder, people!

Otherwise, there were the ugly costumes, the stupid constant sound effects, retarted jokes, etc.

04-15-2007, 06:07 AM	#1
Gothamite Random Punk Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 25	The Next Mutation - Can someone explain to me? Having only seen the first five episodes of this show, I have some idea why it isn't liked; but I view it the same way as I view the OT. Why is it then that so many people hate it? Is it Venus De Milo and the sheer concept of her or is it just the unneccessary campiness of the show? __________________ - "Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." - James Dean ~By the way...DON'T CALL ME GOTHY!

04-15-2007, 06:21 AM	#2
Ra It's my desire? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In your pants. Posts: 4,441	I guess it was just the way it was done. I liked the show as a kid, but then again, what does a 4 year old know? Bad costumes was another thing I distinctly remember being an upset, and Venus' lack of fluent English. It was good for a time, yes, but it just wore thin after a while. And the fact that she didn't really have a weapon sort of helped along with the hatred for her. It's kind of like an unwritten rule - you can't be a Ninja Turtle without a bandanna and a decent weapon. Also the Dragon Lord...sheesh, I don't know. Apparently he was way to much like a Power Rangers villain. That's my limited knowledge on the subject. Someone else will surely have more answers than I do. __________________ "So. The whole lot of you against little old me? How retarded."

04-15-2007, 04:41 PM	#5
wyze2099 Hench Mutant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 323	As I've stated elsewhere, I think "Next Mutation" could have been interesting, but it was completely sabotaged by its execution. While a lot of people attack the character of Venus on general principle, I think the idea of a female Turtle is potentially neat; a lot could have been done with it. What's it like to be one of only five creatures of a kind on the planet, and to grow up thinking in the Turtles' case) that there were only four, or (in Mei Peih Chi's case) that there was only one? What would it be like to give up the life she'd established for herself to reunite with her brothers ... only to find that it's such a tight-knight group that she could only feel like a constant outsider (and not just for being female; I have to wonder how a long-lost brother would have integrated into the group)? The problem with Venus was in the way they handled the character. Her status as an immigrant was mostly played for laughs, so what we got was a thick accent and constant butchering of the English language (which, while understandable, made her feel more like a stereotype than an actual character). She was made to be a possible love interest for one of the male turtles, so it was outright stated that none of the turtles were related by blood, which sabotages the franchise's strong family feel. Not because a lack of blood relation would make them any less of a family (after all, they consider their father to be a rat), but because they have such a strong sense of family that welcoming Venus into the fold and then flirting with her seems incredibly incestuous. They could say that none of the Turtles are actually related, but given the way they act, it's hard to believe it. And then there's Mei Peih Chi's nickname: she's more well known by the moniker the other Turtles had given her than by the name given to her by her sensei Chung I. Unfortunately, rather than naming her after a Renaissance artist like the others were, she was named after a work of art. Granted, there probably weren't a lot of notable women in Italy's Renaissance movement, but the choice of nickname seems to perpetuate the idea of women as objects instead of equals. The show was also hampered by the insertion of juvenile elements at every level. Besides the poor writing (which ended up suggesting that shinobi is a mystical discipline completely separate from the ninja arts, rather than just being another term for a ninja), really corny sound effects and catchphrases peppered almost every minute of the series. While it makes sense that the Turtles had mimicked human pop culture while growing up, there's more to the turtles' peronalities than just the parroting of turtle-related slang. And the sound effects were so cartoonish that it was like watching an episode of "Beakman's World" ... only without intelligent things being said. And finally, the series actually had, at first glance, a dark, urban feel. Plenty of scenes took place at night. Establishing shots showed stock footage of NYC, and the Turtles themselves were sculpted to look more intimidating and brooding. But that was completely at odds with the fact that the show was aimed at an even younger audience than the Power Rangers. That, coupled with the garish costuming details on the Turtles and other characters, made the show rather hard to watch. There might have been an interesting TV show somewhere in the "Next Mutation"'s premise, but ultimately it became one of the lowest points in the TMNT franchise by failing in every possible way a Turtles show could fail. __________________ TMNT: Mutant Town A Ninja Turtles Discord RPG and community. Currently ongoing: A Friday-night RPG on voice chat! Editor-in-Chief of Marvel Crossroads fanfiction group

04-15-2007, 09:35 PM	#7
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,477	Power Rangers had at least several multiple cases of characters killing themselves for one reason or another (Zordon, Kendrix, the suicide bombing Stingwingers etc), that obviously means it's good ,educational, clean fun Of course I'm referring to the Judd Lynn period of the series where everything was a lot more mature than it is now, (nothing but explosions and wire-fu, and stereotyped Hollwood by-product characters being used to keep the writing team interested in a job they clearly don't want to do...) __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

04-15-2007, 09:39 PM	#9
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,477	Zordon, the racist swine, had no problem "redeeming" humans turned evil, and wiped out aliens, loved that moral, oh yes. The anniversary reunion team-up is supposedly featuring the son of Lord Zedd and Rita __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

04-15-2007, 12:13 PM	#3
The Shelf Mad Scientist Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,031	I remember being utterly confused about why there was a fifth and female turtle and why there was a dragon-ish character running around in a live action show. Maybe it was just too Power Ranger-ish for a turtles show? I honestly can't pin it down to any one thing anymore because it's been too long since I've seen it, but I didn't like Venus and I didn't like the villain. If they left those two things out, it would have been way better.

04-15-2007, 02:44 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,864	It was Power Rangers with the Turtles instead, that's why it wasn't liked. Not to mention it was cheesy, remember those horrible Saban sound effects they'd use during the fight scenes? Awful. Its the worst TMNT incarnation out of anything ever produced, even worse than those "Coming out of their Shells" tours.

04-15-2007, 09:45 PM	#11
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	I didn't like Venus for the sheer fact that she was thrown in and it did break up the family dynamic. To have Leo say that they're "not brothers," that they were "pet shop Turtles, born and bred on a Turtle farm," turned me off right there. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

04-16-2007, 05:57 AM	#14
Tora_Chan Thug Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 95	Agreed, I've seen female turtles in fanfics that worked well. Venus just had too many things wrong with her, mainly that she was a huge Mary Sue. Let's see: - She mangled the TMNT's origin story by being the fifth turtle in the jar, which Leo oh-so-convinitely remembers. - Claiming that Shinobis are somehow not Ninjas, but some kind of mystical magic users. - Having magic powers and being able to beat all for of the guys in battle using martial arts. She was also the most socially concious of the group and always turned out to be right in any argument (wanting to save the "baby" turtle, trusting the good dragon and so on). - By being the only being able to got through meditation into the dream world by herself apart from Splinter and Chung I. Leo somehow never meditated or even heard of this dream world before. - Reducing the guys to some kind of brawn, but no brain guys. They also acted incredibly OOC, constantly making fun of anything mystical or magical she told them about, especially Donatello. He was often outright hostile towards her, which seems even stranger considering the series seemed to take place after the original three movies, where they traveled through time. - Beat the Shredder all by herself using her magical mind powers. The Shredder, people! Otherwise, there were the ugly costumes, the stupid constant sound effects, retarted jokes, etc.