Animation Question: Turtles on Trial

darthsmozers · 08-16-2007, 12:49 PM

I watched Episode 20: Turtles on Trian (old toon show) today and noticed the animation is considerably better than the episodes directly preceeding it, and is on part with the first few episodes of the series. The coloring/shadowing is excellent and the turtles even resemble their look in the early episodes. The action is even more intense when the turtles fight shredder in the museum.

My question is, is it known why this episode's animation is better and even resembles the mini series pilot episodes? And for that matter, is it simply a coincidence that Krang's bubble walker appears, which was his typical mode of transportation in the mini series episodes?

*Revan* · 08-16-2007, 01:21 PM

Interesting topic and to tell you the truth I don't know for sure the reasons why the animation flucuated so much through episodes of the OT. Perhaps it was just different animation teams working on different episodes since they had to kick so many eps out so often due to the popularity of the series. I do have some example caps though that you can compare.

First intro animation. - Notice the line down the middle of the face. Easily my favorite style for the OT

Second intro animation. - No line down the middle of the face. Less serious and more cartoony that the first intro.

"Turtle Tracks" - Line down middle of face but not drawn as precise as the first intro.

"Enter the Shredder" - No line but still very serious looking turtles.

"Return of the Shredder" - From here on out, the turtles no longer have a line down their faces. There was also a shift from the serious tone of the first season to a more cartoony style

"Enter the Rat King" - One of the most common styles of animation throughout the series. Very similar to Return of the Shredder but the turtles cranial structures a bit more circular

"Cowabunga Shredhead" - This ep had very good animation except for a few short sequences. There is a part where Shredder comes into the turtles lair and for a few seconds we get a glimpse of some very different looking turtles

"Mutagen Monster" - Great animation! Definately one of my favorite styles. Turtles are bright and colorful yet serious. Their cheaks were just the right size IMO.

"The Foot Soldiers are Revolting" - One of my least favorite styles. Colors are dull and faded, the turtles are fat and goofy looking. Too cartoony.

*DrSpengler* · 08-16-2007, 02:16 PM

Turtles on Trial was animated by Toei Studios, a Japanese studio which did the first season and a handfull of episodes throughout the rest of the series.

Their animation was always more fluid, consistent and detailed than the other studios (usually Korean ones) working on the series. Not all their episodes were as visually thrilling as Turtles on Trial, but they at least looked very clean and less dodgy than the Korean ones.

To my surprise, most of the episodes on the Season 5 DVD are done by Toei.

*ToTheNines* · 08-16-2007, 02:24 PM

What about April Foolish? That looked like it was made in the 60's.

*Revan* · 08-16-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

What about April Foolish? That looked like it was made in the 60's.

April's Fool. And yes it was one of the worse styles they used for the OT

*ToTheNines* · 08-16-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutrino

April's Fool.

Oh, lol that was dumb.

darthsmozers · 08-16-2007, 04:09 PM

Can anyone get a screen shot from Turtles on Trial? I think in at least one action scene the turtles had the line down the nose. And shredder just looks awesome.

*Drtooth* · 08-16-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutrino

"Cowabunga Shredhead" - This ep had very good animation except for a few short sequences. There is a part where Shredder comes into the turtles lair and for a few seconds we get a glimpse of some very different looking turtles

I actually kinda liked that very animated look for the turtles. But not as much as Toei.

Listen, I'm a broken record at this point, but the best thing about 1980's cartoons was the Japanese animation for American shows. While it had a stiffness to it, it was clearly more professional looking than some other cartoons. While prone to translation problems vis a vis storyborads (Someone talking out of the wrong character's mouth), they were some of the best Limited animation seen on TV. Plus, they also gave their trademark deatails and theatrical quality to the tv frames, giving them quite a bit of depth.

I especially loved TMS's work for Disney and DIC animation shows.

Now everything is done in Korea, and it looks... well... dead. There are some examples that they can do a decent job (Cureous George for example) but they look too flat, and it's like shooting a film in Canada and pretending it's some generic town. it all looks the same and generic. I especially hate the firm Warner's has.

*Revan* · 08-16-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthsmozers

Can anyone get a screen shot from Turtles on Trial? I think in at least one action scene the turtles had the line down the nose. And shredder just looks awesome.

"Turtles on Trial"

*ToTheNines* · 08-16-2007, 06:28 PM

I was always under the impression that the animation team had nothign to do with the actual look. Like there is an art team which draws it, then an animation team.

darthsmozers · 08-16-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutrino

"Turtles on Trial"

Looking at these, perhaps its not the whole episode, but one can plainly see in this shot that Shredder is quite detailed with shadowing, etc. Very nice!

SassyGal · 08-20-2007, 01:31 AM

this is one of my fave episodes because I really like the animation...in season 3, my sister and I could tell if the animation would be good based on what Shredder or April looked like(whichever we saw first)...they usually looked the worse, although, the turtles could be drawn pretty craptacular as well

*Roseangelo* · 08-20-2007, 01:42 AM

I remember "Peking Turtles" for having horrible animation. I think it's similar to what we see in parts of "Cowabunga, Shredhead."

I really need to go on an old toon watchin' binge.

Raph'N'Roll · 08-20-2007, 09:01 PM

Turtles on Trial always stood out, and after the first 3 eps of series 1, it's probably my fave of the original toon.
The fifth Turtle was also animated by the same team, if I can remember correctly.
There was a Murakami Wolf Swenson studio here in Dublin, which I think was responsible for those awful European vacation eps, they just had to mention leprechauns in the ridiculous Irish Jig Is UP, not sure what other episodes they did though.
After checking a couple of sites on the net, it looks as if the Dublin studio were animating the Turtles as far back as 1990.
My fave toon back then was being animated under my own nose and I didn't know it, I woulda got a kick outta that.

*oldmanwinters* · 08-20-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPH 'N' ROLL

Turtles on Trial always stood out, and after the first 3 eps of series 1, it's probably my fave of the original toon.
The fifth Turtle was also animated by the same team, if I can remember correctly.
There was a Murakami Wolf Swenson studio here in Dublin, which I think was responsible for those awful European vacation eps, they just had to mention leprechauns in the ridiculous Irish Jig Is UP, not sure what other episodes they did though.
After checking a couple of sites on the net, it looks as if the Dublin studio were animating the Turtles as far back as 1990.

You can actually identify the Dublin group by the end credit logo.
Here were the typical end credit logos:
First:

Then:

But here are the alternate end credit logos:
First:

Then:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyGal

this is one of my fave episodes because I really like the animation...in season 3, my sister and I could tell if the animation would be good based on what Shredder or April looked like(whichever we saw first)...they usually looked the worse

I noticed that also. Often, the characters looked a tad more "rubbery" for lack of a better term, and were consistently more "off-model" (as the professionals say) than the regular style. Its easier to notice it more with the human characters than the Turtles themselves. For instance, note this comparison of April from "The Making of Metalhead" and "Michaelangelo's Birthday."

The 2nd version was from the MW Dublin style. As you can see, the hair has less detail and is darker. The eyes are different too. Also, MW Dublin seemed to have used less shading on the characters. It would seem that most of the Murakamimi, Zamora, Lodge episodes were done with this studio, although I need a fact check on that.

Raph'N'Roll · 08-20-2007, 10:29 PM

Thanks for posting those pics, interesting comparison of April, the second one certainly is less detailed.

08-16-2007, 12:49 PM	#1
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,278	Animation Question: Turtles on Trial I watched Episode 20: Turtles on Trian (old toon show) today and noticed the animation is considerably better than the episodes directly preceeding it, and is on part with the first few episodes of the series. The coloring/shadowing is excellent and the turtles even resemble their look in the early episodes. The action is even more intense when the turtles fight shredder in the museum. My question is, is it known why this episode's animation is better and even resembles the mini series pilot episodes? And for that matter, is it simply a coincidence that Krang's bubble walker appears, which was his typical mode of transportation in the mini series episodes?

08-16-2007, 01:21 PM	#2
Revan Han Shot First Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Paper Street Soap Company Posts: 3,687	Interesting topic and to tell you the truth I don't know for sure the reasons why the animation flucuated so much through episodes of the OT. Perhaps it was just different animation teams working on different episodes since they had to kick so many eps out so often due to the popularity of the series. I do have some example caps though that you can compare. First intro animation. - Notice the line down the middle of the face. Easily my favorite style for the OT Second intro animation. - No line down the middle of the face. Less serious and more cartoony that the first intro. "Turtle Tracks" - Line down middle of face but not drawn as precise as the first intro. "Enter the Shredder" - No line but still very serious looking turtles. "Return of the Shredder" - From here on out, the turtles no longer have a line down their faces. There was also a shift from the serious tone of the first season to a more cartoony style "Enter the Rat King" - One of the most common styles of animation throughout the series. Very similar to Return of the Shredder but the turtles cranial structures a bit more circular "Cowabunga Shredhead" - This ep had very good animation except for a few short sequences. There is a part where Shredder comes into the turtles lair and for a few seconds we get a glimpse of some very different looking turtles "Mutagen Monster" - Great animation! Definately one of my favorite styles. Turtles are bright and colorful yet serious. Their cheaks were just the right size IMO. "The Foot Soldiers are Revolting" - One of my least favorite styles. Colors are dull and faded, the turtles are fat and goofy looking. Too cartoony. __________________

08-20-2007, 01:31 AM	#12
SassyGal Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London, Canada Posts: 1,349	this is one of my fave episodes because I really like the animation...in season 3, my sister and I could tell if the animation would be good based on what Shredder or April looked like(whichever we saw first)...they usually looked the worse, although, the turtles could be drawn pretty craptacular as well Last edited by SassyGal; 08-20-2007 at 01:44 AM.

08-20-2007, 01:42 AM	#13
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	I remember "Peking Turtles" for having horrible animation. I think it's similar to what we see in parts of "Cowabunga, Shredhead." I really need to go on an old toon watchin' binge. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

08-16-2007, 02:16 PM	#3
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Turtles on Trial was animated by Toei Studios, a Japanese studio which did the first season and a handfull of episodes throughout the rest of the series. Their animation was always more fluid, consistent and detailed than the other studios (usually Korean ones) working on the series. Not all their episodes were as visually thrilling as Turtles on Trial, but they at least looked very clean and less dodgy than the Korean ones. To my surprise, most of the episodes on the Season 5 DVD are done by Toei.

08-16-2007, 02:24 PM	#4
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,344	What about April Foolish? That looked like it was made in the 60's.

08-16-2007, 04:09 PM	#7
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,278	Can anyone get a screen shot from Turtles on Trial? I think in at least one action scene the turtles had the line down the nose. And shredder just looks awesome.

08-16-2007, 06:28 PM	#10
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,344	I was always under the impression that the animation team had nothign to do with the actual look. Like there is an art team which draws it, then an animation team.

08-20-2007, 09:01 PM	#14
Raph'N'Roll Hench Mutant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 313	Turtles on Trial always stood out, and after the first 3 eps of series 1, it's probably my fave of the original toon. The fifth Turtle was also animated by the same team, if I can remember correctly. There was a Murakami Wolf Swenson studio here in Dublin, which I think was responsible for those awful European vacation eps, they just had to mention leprechauns in the ridiculous Irish Jig Is UP, not sure what other episodes they did though. After checking a couple of sites on the net, it looks as if the Dublin studio were animating the Turtles as far back as 1990. My fave toon back then was being animated under my own nose and I didn't know it, I woulda got a kick outta that.

08-20-2007, 10:29 PM	#16
Raph'N'Roll Hench Mutant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 313	Thanks for posting those pics, interesting comparison of April, the second one certainly is less detailed.