Setting the record straight: Peter Laird

[Nobody_At_All]

Don't kid yourselves guys, anytime there's a weirdo choice in the line (which basically means off-color themes or strange "new" character choices) it's all Pete. Remember what Eastman just said in his interview: the creative portion is strictly Laird now.

I've got a few good friends that have worked at Playmates in the recent past (specifically people that worked on 2k3-ff-movie). They all say the same thing:

Peter's not interested in doing "new" versions of any of your beloved characters (80’s or comic…whether they appeared in the show or not), nor new characters from 2k3 in the "movie style.”

Look at Alien Hunters. With a theme like that you'd expect to see new takes on a Triceraton, maybe an Utrom and for good measure Fugitoid. Why? Because they’re obvious thematic choices. I can assure you those were propositioned!

Yes Playmates is going to do toy-ettic "Auto Attack" like figs. to fill a pricepoint at retail, but you bet your buns they're going to push for brand-iconinc main and secondary characters. That's the business that makes sense and makes them money! You don't go and buy Spider-man toys of "made up" villains-- no one would buy 'em. You'd want Venom, Mysterio and the lot. And while a core chunk of the old TMNT business was "made up characters" (which were ridiculously fun) Playmates isn't allowed to "go there" and humanize nor mutate anything (a specific rule from Peter). If you get an anthropromorphic character in the line (like we will with Global Mutant Missions) they must be "already existing or created without mutagen" like a urban legend: Sasquatch or Moth man, that sort of thing.

Bottom line: Peter's always flexing his “creative” power just to feel like he’s accomplishing something. He’s what the industry calls “bad creative,” meaning he holds too tight to his ideas and sadly like a strangling vine around a rosebed, gradually kills the growth, security and beauty of the property. Now that he's "made his peace" with the 2k3 toon he should let others try on TMNT and allow the brand to truly flourish once again (and collect his checks). If Stan Lee kept writing and directing all of his Marvel creations indefinitely, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be around anymore today. His stories and ideas wouldn't have translated era after era without the energy and contextual rationalization of new creative teams. Stan learned early on that he had created something unique and had to "let go" like a good parent. He knew that many of his creations would outlive him. Peter just hasn't got a hold of that one yet and like a greedy child holds tight to his possession, massaging his insecurities.

Playmates can come up with greatest and most awkward choices imaginable for the line, but at the end of the day, the direction and approval comes from somewhere….and I can assure you it’s not from Costa Mesa, CA.


Nobody_At_All

[Toonami Tom]

So according to that information, the rest of the TMNT figures will be screwed up turtle variants, space aliens, and random monsters. That sucks.

On a positive note, I will have more money because I won't be spending it on TMNT figures. That is until NECA's TMNT figures are released.

[VaughnMichael]

You're preaching to the quire more stuff about Peter and playmates I already knew.
It's a shame Kevin had to get out but I can't blame him one bit and i'd say the same thing about kevin if he acted like a two year old but he doesn't he's honest and upfront about his life and himself.
Oh well I don't understand how Neca can make toys of past characters but playmates isn't.
And I believe you about them wanting to do it and Peter turning it all down it's just like Kevin Eastman told Kevin Monroe that you have to make Peter believe he came up with the ideas so they can get made.

[Roseangelo]

Well, I guess it makes me feel like less of a whining fangirl when someone inside the industry is saying the same things I've been saying/thinking for awhile. Maybe I know what I'm talking about after all.

Even back in the 80s, Peter and Kevin didn't do it on their own. They did it with the support and talent of the most awesome crew of people they could have possibly assembled. Without those people, the TMNT universe would be incredibly small. They are evidence of what kinds of greatness can happen when you work with a team of people who know your characters and understand how the creators want those characters to be and how they should grow. I see no such trust in any team today; I only see people who try to get projects approved. The results end up rather disjointed.

If Peter happens to read this, I think all any of us want is to see the TMNT continue for as long as possible, preferably infinately, as characters whose continued stories the public enjoys. Putting so many limitations on what can and can't be done only hurts this from happening. Fifteen issues of comic books can only be stretched so far.

It can't be easy or fun to read so many negative comments directed toward you, but when you're the sole guy in charge, you're the only person to whom such comments can be directed. It's an unfortunate blur of business and person. It's a situation that doesn't happen when people complain about Warner Brothers (or other companies), where there's no single name that can be attached to any good or bad decisions that they make.

These days, "Mirage Studios" simply means "Peter Laird."

[CyberCubed]

Something about the OP doesn't add up.

Why would Laird give the OK for freaky looking aliens in the movie line over a Triceraton, Fuigitoid, or new Utrom toy?

Wouldn't you think Laird would WANT Mirage universe aliens done in "movie-style" then funky aliens that look like rejects from Fast Forward? That's why I find this hard to believe.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Something about the OP doesn't add up.

Why would Laird give the OK for freaky looking aliens in the movie line over a Triceraton, Fuigitoid, or new Utrom toy?

Wouldn't you think Laird would WANT Mirage universe aliens done in "movie-style" then funky aliens that look like rejects from Fast Forward? That's why I find this hard to believe.

Perhaps it has to do with the deal they made with Neca concerning their line of toys based on the comics.

[Nobody_At_All]

Ok, let's clear the table a little bit.

The NECA thing is officially figural news as of last week which came as a surprise to Pmates entirely. Contractually they were only supposed to be doing (of all things) miniature weapon replicas.

As for the odd character choices, it's what Pete considers "strategy." My friend tells me Playmates will keep running with the "movie" look for as long as possible (in their mind, it's visually "more turtles" than ff ever was, which wasn't selling). Peter didn't/doesn't want "movie-esque" "classic" characters (even though it is now the core "look" of the brand) because they didn't appear in the film, period. It's sad. My source also tells me they fight all the time over it and seemingly magical "shout outs" like Jagwar are only coincidental and would never get cleared if presented to him early.

Nobody_At_All

[BigApple3AM]

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint? I can't disagree with him about Triceratons in the movie line, Playmates already did Fugitoid and Triceratons for the new cartoon line and they sucked. They were as tall or shorter than the turtles, and had as much detail as a pre-school toy. At this point who knows if there's a sequel the Triceratons might appear and then you'd have a toy made for the first movie line that doesn't match up. I wouldn't want the movie to be tied down to some toy designer's idea of a triceraton revision. Besides they already did Shredder who wasn't in the movie, that's enough non-movie characters for now. So I agree with his decision. Last time I checked it was mostly Playmates and 4kids fault for switching to fast forward in the first place. And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

If playmates wants to do the old school characters, first prove to everyone that they can make good toys, then maybe I'll support them. Until then the main reason I'm rooting for NECA is because it's not Playmates. The fact that they're doing comic stuff is icing on the cake.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Nobody_At_All

Ok, let's clear the table a little bit.

The NECA thing is officially figural news as of last week which came as a surprise to Pmates entirely. Contractually they were only supposed to be doing (of all things) miniature weapon replicas.

As for the odd character choices, it's what Pete considers "strategy." My friend tells me Playmates will keep running with the "movie" look for as long as possible (in their mind, it's visually "more turtles" than ff ever was, which wasn't selling). Peter didn't/doesn't want "movie-esque" "classic" characters (even though it is now the core "look" of the brand) because they didn't appear in the film, period. It's sad. My source also tells me they fight all the time over it and seemingly magical "shout outs" like Jagwar are only coincidental and would never get cleared if presented to him early.

Nobody_At_All

Um so ok who's idea was FF then everyone acts like Playmates bumrushed 4kids and Peter laird into doing the show and now they act like it's a red headed step child. So really who was behind all of that? Of course Peter is the same guy who acts like he didn't have a hand in the next mutation but he had just as much a part in it and the old toon as anyone else he should be proud of his past he brought allot of joy to allot of people growing up thats nothing to be ashamed of at all.
And that's odd about NECA none of us really even know whats going on with that yet so maybe they are just doing what you just said they are we've all just been speculating what they're going to do more than anything else.
I know Playmates has been wanting to do a Retro figures line and Peter says no absolutly not I really don't see what the issue is as long as it's a sub-line and not the focus of the turtles toy line.
And also who's idea is it to make almost every turtle figure the same looking? because honestly thats really bland even as a kid I collected all the wierd monsters and mutants before I ever bought another turtle figure that was dressed up but hell even back then at least each figure had a brand new sculpt was that Peters idea to get rid of brand new sculpts also or is Playmates just cutting back costs by using the same heads and bodies?
Yeah it's a shame the Jagwar figure really doesn't look like the real Jagwar character very much but oh well at least he will have his bio from the archie comics.
I have to admit it's really stupid that an Ultimate TMNT line in't being done.

Originally Posted by Ectocooler

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint? I can't disagree with him about Triceratons in the movie line, Playmates already did Fugitoid and Triceratons for the new cartoon line and they sucked. They were as tall or shorter than the turtles, and had as much detail as a pre-school toy. At this point who knows if there's a sequel the Triceratons might appear and then you'd have a toy made for the first movie line that doesn't match up. I wouldn't want the movie to be tied down to some toy designer's idea of a triceraton revision. Besides they already did Shredder who wasn't in the movie, that's enough non-movie characters for now. So I agree with his decision. Last time I checked it was mostly Playmates and 4kids fault for switching to fast forward in the first place. And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

If playmates wants to do the old school characters, first prove to everyone that they can make good toys, then maybe I'll support them. Until then the main reason I'm rooting for NECA is because it's not Playmates. The fact that they're doing comic stuff is icing on the cake.

um no Ecto Kevin washed his hands of PETER LAIRD not the TURTLES.
he even states so in his most recent interview and really with how childish Peter acts I can't say I blame him one bit.
And people need to stop praising the laird! I quit worshiping like an idol fan boy years ago it's time that people open their eyes and realize playmates isn't doing this crap.
It's one thing to enjoy what they do or did but it's another to sit by and allow some one to destroy something you love.
I'm pretty sure Kevin feels the same way but at this point he'd rather not be around Peter who is like a 5 year old with his mine mine mine gimmie gimmie gimmie no no no mine attitude.
Kevin would have never allowed that recent story about Casey Jones to ever be published.
Peter has his hands in more cookie jars than he likes to talk about which isn't very much these days the man hasn't even said a word about the new movie at all. Yeah he just cares so much.
Also let me add he was the one who turned down tuns of things for the new toy line because it's not what HE wanted.
He hated the fact that the old toy line had amazing individual art work for the toys he felt it misrepresented the toy in the box I mean really if that isn't a stupid move in a world of faceless box art these days I don't know what is.
Turtles used to stand out so much in the toy stores but now it's just a faceless mess pretty much just like everything else.

[gobo]

I have to admit that I'm not happy about Laird's virtual dictatorship over the TMNT franchise, but I know that there's a chance we'll get him to do the exact opposite of what we want if he sees nothing but ungratefulness coming from us. Let's try making a big deal about his good decisions too sometime. Like, give him the credit he deserves for rejecting that dreadfully uninspired card game season. Honestly, I think that he should loosen his choke-hold on the franchise too, but it's ultimately not my decision. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, right?

[CyberCubed]

I think people will be happier when the first designs or story plots for the 2008 season are revealed and bring the Turtles back to their roots.

I'm sure at that point Playmates will stop the Movie line and move onward to do Season 7 style TMNT toys, and whatever new villains appear in that season.

I'm still hoping Murphy pulls through and gets us new toys of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady for the 2009 anniversary.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by gobo

I have to admit that I'm not happy about Laird's virtual dictatorship over the TMNT franchise, but I know that there's a chance we'll get him to do the exact opposite of what we want if he sees nothing but ungratefulness coming from us. Let's try making a big deal about his good decisions too sometime. Like, give him the credit he deserves for rejecting that dreadfully uninspired card game season. Honestly, I think that he should loosen his choke-hold on the franchise too, but it's ultimately not my decision. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, right?

I'm sorry but the bad seem to outweigh the good here.
I've got no problem with Peter Laird personally but he seems to treat his co-workers and friends like utter crap almost to the point of loik slave labor.
And you listed one thing he's done that was good.
He's rejected countless others and to be honest I'm not ungreatfull at all he has done allot of great things like 2k3 and bringing the turtles back for the love of splinter!
But honestly the good are few and far between I'm always watching for the good but it doesn't come.
I'd love to see Peter prove people wrong he gets so upset about things people say about him here but instead of going wow these kids hate me allot maybe he should focus on what we're saying instead of acting like a aby and going gar! my turtles me do what me want and screw fans they no like me turtles ne stop doing volume 4 which btw was finally going some place cool and he stops he stops because he has "writters block" which in reality he got so down over the fans of this site putting him down he stoped doing it.
I can't blame him though I mean sure we can be pretty harsh some times but you know what it's because we care just like he and Kevin do.
I don't want to see the turtles as crap but I don't want them to forget their amazing past either no matter how many mirage elitists think that old toon is stupid. Seriously I like a little bit of everything from each tmnt universe but I really hate the direction my favorite the toy line has gone in it's such a shell of it's former self.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm still hoping Murphy pulls through and gets us new toys of Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady for the 2009 anniversary.

He's got a hell of a job on his hands with this issue because Playmates has been trying to make it happen for some time and PETER is the one saying no I really don't see what a line saying that they are exclusive limited edition retro figures would harm at all.

[TristanHuwJones]

Can I ask why we need another one of these threads?

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys. Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant. It's not really that hard to come up with reality based characters for the TMNT, or characters that don't need mutagen to come into being. Most of the supporting cast of the comics AND recent TV show came about that way.

In the end, Playmates, just like 4kids, are making kids action figures. They have to look at what they think are going to sell to kids. Unfortunately, Fugitoid was one of the worst offenders when it came to pegwarming, and until I hear from someone who makes these sorts of decisions directly as to why such and such a character hasn't been or wasn't made, then there are just too many other factors to consider to pin the blame solely on Peter Laird.

Bottom line - right now, we have NECA, who are making toys FOR US! Not for kids! These guys know how to market shizzle like this! Let Playmates do what they've always done - make kids toys. If you wan to buy them, buy them, if not, don't. We just really don't need another "I hate Peter because of X" thread when ultimately, you weren't there and you don't know Peter personally.

I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.

[Nobody_At_All]

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property.

Hey, I'm not saying anything about the man personally, I'm talking business. Laird's not coming in an actively ruining things, rather, he's closing doors for other's to make Turtles something again. It extends from a nasty paranoia developed from Fred Wolf changing Pete's "baby" back in the day.

To your inquiry on Fast Forward: As I understand it, again it was a Pete decision. Yes Playmates wanted to make the show more kid friendly, introducing some more contemporary themes...but the intent wasn't to (absurdly) launch them 99 years into the future...that was a 4Kids idea approved by Mirage. The latest pitch involving the toddler turtles was also derived from the same formula which (as I hear) is:

Playmates internally brainstorms their wants from the show which always equates to more roots oriented media, humor and iconic characters (not far-off concepts and situations like some of you would believe).
+ 4Kids translating those "needs" into weird gimmick shows which they sell to Peter before getting everyone on board 100%
+ down to the wire decisions=
rushed mistakes like Fast Forward.

Was it Peter Laird's decision to make the toys really crappy too? Like 5 points of articulation and no paint?

Sadly Ecto, those type of issues come from 2 things:

a.) Mass market manufacturing (which means cost vs. profit)

and the big one:

b.) Time. In the toy industry, things are always at least a year in advance. Playmates isn't a airport hangar full of people, we're talking 60 max with maybe 5 working on everything in the boys and activities aisles respectively With late decisions, difficult licensor expectations for the brand and lack of any creative control, 4Kids, Playmates and Mirage suffers extensively together. Why do your figures come out with 5pts of articulation (even though the TMNT now have 13 thanks to great efforts of folks in these groups)...well, like I said: there's just too much to do, too few people and no time to do it in. And as I stated last time:

Playmates can come up with greatest and most awkward choices imaginable for the line, but at the end of the day, the direction and approval comes from somewhere….and I can assure you it’s not from Costa Mesa, CA.

All of it still has to get approved.

And for all we know your friend could be the receptionist, until someone comes on with definite proof it's all hearsay and rumors.

Listen or don't, that's your choice. Mine is posting here voluntarily, trying to give you guys some much deserved insight.

Nobody_At_All

[Mutated Leo]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Can I ask why we need another one of these threads?

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys. Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant. It's not really that hard to come up with reality based characters for the TMNT, or characters that don't need mutagen to come into being. Most of the supporting cast of the comics AND recent TV show came about that way.

In the end, Playmates, just like 4kids, are making kids action figures. They have to look at what they think are going to sell to kids. Unfortunately, Fugitoid was one of the worst offenders when it came to pegwarming, and until I hear from someone who makes these sorts of decisions directly as to why such and such a character hasn't been or wasn't made, then there are just too many other factors to consider to pin the blame solely on Peter Laird.

Bottom line - right now, we have NECA, who are making toys FOR US! Not for kids! These guys know how to market shizzle like this! Let Playmates do what they've always done - make kids toys. If you wan to buy them, buy them, if not, don't. We just really don't need another "I hate Peter because of X" thread when ultimately, you weren't there and you don't know Peter personally.

I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.

Well put. I'm glad to see TMNT rolling again.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

If you want to buy them, buy them, if not, don't.

No wonder you got Pete's back. Sorry... That was just a bit of observational humor. I hope no one takes it seriously.

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I want to reiterate that this ISN'T a snipe, or an attack or anything like that on any ONE person in any way at all - it's just that we've heard all this before, and people just get angry and we end up with another thread of hate, dragging the board down to a level it DOESN'T need to, and SHOULDN'T be at.

Thank you for saying this. It's exactly what I've been trying to say. Anger only breeds more anger. It helps nothing. Worry is a different matter. It doesn't involve pointing fingers.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by gobo

No wonder you got Pete's back. Sorry... That was just a bit of observational humor. I hope no one takes it seriously.

Lol! I see where you're coming from, but it's true, now that there's a line of figures in the works that's geared SPECIFICALLY towards the adult market, let's try and ensure that THAT line gets the legs it deserves! Playmates has been doing their thing for the kids market and they're going to keep doing that. Let the kids play with the kids toys, and let's try and give all the support we possibly can to the NECA line. BUT if you are digging what Playmates puts out, for sure, grab it! I'll admit, the only figures I've picked up in recent times have been the core characters and/or sculpts I've liked - but being Australian, we missed a whole lot of them already! I've also only picked up Splinter from the movie figures and so far only plan on grabbing Shredder too, but that's because they're the only figures I've been really interested in getting (and that's me HOPING the Shredder hits our shores!).

[Roseangelo]

The NECA deal is nice, but it still isn't going to get us figures of Ninjara, Armaggon, or any of the other popular Archie characters unless Peter lets them (assuming they're interested). Since he wouldn't let Playmates make any of those figures, it doesn't seem likely to happen now. Jagwar getting through was just a fortunate fluke.

[Slash]

I'm sure Playmates could put together a line of mutant like animal figures under a different toy-line name.

Playmates did, afterall, put together toylines that were basically knockoffs of TMNT.

Barnyard Commandos - mutated pigs, hogs, sheeps, and rams with military weapons.

Toxic Crusaders - yes, Toxic Avenger was a movie prior to the whole TMNT boom.

A brown bat with robotic wings... No one could really say that it was a rip off of Wingnut if they named Valkrie or something.

[Ninjinister]

Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost?

Malibu Stacy with a new hat, yo.