Setting the record straight: Peter Laird

[odupianist]

Oh well I don't understand how Neca can make toys of past characters but playmates isn't.

Once NECA's line comes out and does amazing, Playmates will either a) be kicking themselves, b) try to compete and do something similar or c) both.

These days, "Mirage Studios" simply means "Peter Laird."

Didn't the old saying used to be, "If it's not late, it's not Mirage" or something? Now it's "If it's not Peter Laird, it's not Mirage or TMNT canon"

I'm not the biggest fan of what's being put out today, but give Laird a break. You come down on him like he's some jerk just coming in and ruining the property. He's Peter freakin Laird, he co-created them. Last time I checked Eastman sold his rights, he was the one who wiped his hands of turtles. Peter's the one that stuck around. I like and respect them both.

He is ruining the property in my opinion. Yes he co-created them, but that was with a partner and before he decided to blow it. I mean the Turtles need Eastman AND Laird. Eastman gives TMNT the grittiness that we love, and Laird gives it the sci-fi touch we love. Yes Eastman sold his portion but from what I hear about Laird I'd probably get fed up too.

I think everyone here has expressed their disappointment with the Playmates line at one point or another, but ultimately you can't JUST single out Peter for every bad thing that's happening with the toys.

Why not? It's a lot easier on us if we just single out one person

[Slash]

We all keep saying that NECA will be amazing. How big are these figures going to be? Regular NECA scale? 2k3 Scale? Etc?

We might get 2 inch NECA figures.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by odupianist

Once NECA's line comes out and does amazing, Playmates will either a) be kicking themselves, b) try to compete and do something similar or c) both

I don't think so, I think they'll just keep making toys based on what sells to the kids, most likely tied to the shows or movies. NECA will give the adult market what they have been after and Playmates will keep doing their thing.

Originally Posted by odupianist

He is ruining the property in my opinion. Yes he co-created them, but that was with a partner and before he decided to blow it. I mean the Turtles need Eastman AND Laird. Eastman gives TMNT the grittiness that we love, and Laird gives it the sci-fi touch we love. Yes Eastman sold his portion but from what I hear about Laird I'd probably get fed up too.

But that's the thing, you're basing your opinion on what you've heard, and if that's mainly what's been coming up here on the boards, it's a fairly biased view. I know I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but there really is far too much negativity on this board and no-one posting here knows Peter personally, nor Kevin for that matter, so all you're ever really going to get on the boards is "Oh, this has happened and Pete is involved in some way". You're never going to get the full story on anything here on the boards unfortunately, but people seem to take some of these things as faact and use them as fuel for a fire that could be burning for totally the wrong reasons.

[Scandia]

Could you please explain the "no mutagen" part? I am unsure as to what this entails.

[VaughnMichael]

Some ones nose seems awfully brown to me...

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Putre brought up the question as to whether or not Peter makes them reuse the same old molds for the figures - of course it's Playmates cutting costs! ALL toy companies do it! Why waste money on retooling or sculpting a new figure when you can just make a couple of new additions to the old one and produce it at a lower cost? And remember, these are aimed - just like the cartoon shows - at CHILDREN. Not Collectors. TMNT toys have NEVER been collector friendly until now (with NECA getting the comic license). Ultimately, it's what killed the line last time around (all the variants) and anyone can see that it's happening again.

Hmmm.... that pretty much sums up the problem with the line.

I give Playmates credit with the toys. in fact, I will say that the playmates line, aside form the usual complaints, is one of the better kid geared toy lines. While I can't say they're collector friendly, I see just horrid stuff coming out of certain toy companies that are grossly overpriced (One Piece line for example).

Personally, why I complain about Auto attack and other things like that is that they're expensive and unnecessary to the line. The large figures with large rediculous gadgets don't work because they're stupid, but we're in a rotten economy right now, and toy lines are flopping left and right. What these lines do not need are toys identical to the ones that are released that cost more money because they can do something that will get old after the third time. If only the reason they cost way too much money and parents won't buy them.

That was the downfall of the FF line. All the regular release action figures did pretty good, at least in my area. But the action feature toys that cost 15 bucks or more just sat on the shelves.

The varients in time do kill the line. Not because they are pointless, but because the secondary characters are always short packed compared to the main characters. That's why Baxter Robot and Karai were hard to find in a seas of "Ninja Knight" Dons. If anyone remembers the Muppet toy line, the folly was that they thought more people would get Kermit and Piggy, and they short packed Bunsen and Dr. Teeth. Then we had millions of Piggys warming the shelves.

I totally get that the reusing bits is a money issue. But I really think if they at leat switched up the character heads (just repaint their masks) they would have been interresting.

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Could you please explain the "no mutagen" part? I am unsure as to what this entails.

Peter's point is that he doesn't want the toy line full of characters that became mutants via mutagen (ie like the turtles.) It takes away from what makes the turtles special, plus it gives the toy company free reign to make an army of uninspired characters. So to me it makes sense, and I have to side with Peter on that one.

That's not to say that there can't be mutants and freaks in the toy line, but they need to come up with a different way to justify their existence.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Peter's point is that he doesn't want the toy line full of characters that became mutants via mutagen (ie like the turtles.) It takes away from what makes the turtles special, plus it gives the toy company free reign to make an army of uninspired characters. So to me it makes sense, and I have to side with Peter on that one.

That's not to say that there can't be mutants and freaks in the toy line, but they need to come up with a different way to justify their existence.

& I say that's whats missing from the toy line.
I mean they had that mutants and monsters line for 2k3 perfect for mutants there wasnt a single mutant or monster in that line...

[Scandia]

Ooooh, like a lot in the OT were. And the Mutanimals in a way.

In Mirage and the NT, so far the only mutants like that would be the Turtles, Splinter, and Leatherhead. Can't think of anyone else at this time.

OT- Turtles, Splinter, Bebop, Rocksteady, Tokka and Rahzar, Mondo Gecko, the Frogs, Leatherhead, Mutagen Man, possibly Wingnut and Screwloose IIRC, Baxter Stockman, and I do not remember who else.

Archie- Turtles, Splinter, Man Ray, Mondo Gecko, Leatherhead, Jagwar, some wolf dude, possibly Ninjara but I have not gotten to that part yet.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Ooooh, like a lot in the OT were. And the Mutanimals in a way.

In Mirage and the NT, so far the only mutants like that would be the Turtles, Splinter, and Leatherhead. Can't think of anyone else at this time.

OT- Turtles, Splinter, Bebop, Rocksteady, Tokka and Rahzar, Mondo Gecko, the Frogs, Leatherhead, Mutagen Man, possibly Wingnut and Screwloose IIRC, Baxter Stockman, and I do not remember who else.

Archie- Turtles, Splinter, Man Ray, Mondo Gecko, Leatherhead, Jagwar, some wolf dude, possibly Ninjara but I have not gotten to that part yet.

Wingnut and Screwloose are aliens in both the comics and in the show.
Jagwar was not a mutant.
Leatherhead in the archie comics is not a mutant he was transformed by maryr bones.
Dredmon also is not a mutant he was cursed and turned into a wolfman.
Ninja and her people are also not mutants.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Leatherhead and Dreadmon are mutants indeed. Turnstone, curse, mutagen-- doesn't matter what brought it on. The point is that they went from being humans to being humanoid animals, so they're mutants.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Darth_CJJ

Leatherhead and Dreadmon are mutants indeed. Turnstone, curse, mutagen-- doesn't matter what brought it on. The point is that they went from being humans to being humanoid animals, so they're mutants.

They are Mutants in a normal world sence of the word but We're talking about being turned by Mutagen here that's what Peter's against.
Obviously why the Turtles around the world line or whatever it's called has Characters that would be considerd mutants to you but aren't because like Jagwars story being used he is indeed half human and half animal but his father was a mystical jawgwar spirit.

[Nobody_At_All]

Regardless of their mutagen, or non-mutagen origins, Peter still prohibits the use of "mutants" (think 80's toyline-like characters) where they had humanoid personalities and proportions. When he says "no mutagen" he means that the creatures that will appear must be (for the most part) mindless monsters at best (ex: the generic looking aliens in the recently unveiled "Alien Hunters"). Don't expect to see the likes of Mondo Gecko, Slash, Wingnut or Leatherhead-type, unique looking characters. That's the issue here: the lack of approval to re-imagine fan faves or invent potential new ones for the contemporary line.

[VaughnMichael]

Then they should start their own line they don't need ninja turtles to have a cool line of characters hell I've made up tuns of my own tell playmates to gimmie a call and we'll talk

[Nobody_At_All]

It's not that easy Pute, they still have to get the line placed in the Target's, Walmarts and Toys 'R" Us' of the world...and the only way (sadly) nowadays to do that is through licensed goods. If it's not going to happen through Turtles (which desperately needs it), then it's just not going to happen.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Nobody_At_All

It's not that easy Pute, they still have to get the line placed in the Target's, Walmarts and Toys 'R" Us' of the world...and the only way (sadly) nowadays to do that is through licensed goods. If it's not going to happen through Turtles (which desperately needs it), then it's just not going to happen.

We'll like I said I've got my own thing I'm working on called New Eden I've been working on it for years.
Looking for a Company to make them happen in plastic form.
The way I want to do it is sort of tell the story through the toyline like each one would come with a story that would continue the story for the series if that makes sence.
It was going to be called Dark Days but that names been so used to death now it's not even funny.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

But that's the thing, you're basing your opinion on what you've heard, and if that's mainly what's been coming up here on the boards, it's a fairly biased view. I know I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but there really is far too much negativity on this board and no-one posting here knows Peter personally, nor Kevin for that matter, so all you're ever really going to get on the boards is "Oh, this has happened and Pete is involved in some way". You're never going to get the full story on anything here on the boards unfortunately, but people seem to take some of these things as faact and use them as fuel for a fire that could be burning for totally the wrong reasons.

I appreciate your attempt to "calm the fire" Tristan, but the original post speaks truth. I am also very confident that the general assessment of Peter that we see laid out around here speaks the truth. My personal assessment comes from both what I hear/read from reliable sources and from some personal issues as well. I don't think this thread was built for Peter Laird bashing - and I don't think it's become that - I think it was built to explain to us why there's been a whole lot of Playmates toys recently that we're not happy with. Because there has been a lot of Playmates bashing lately.

And it's like I said in my original response in this thread - there is an unfortunate blurring of lines between Peter Laird the person and Peter Laird the business. I have no reason to believe Peter Laird the person is anything but a fine human being. I think Peter Laird the business has made a lot of missteps in recent years. Missteps that hurt the TMNT as a whole, be it with toys or comics books or tv or whatever. Since continued success for the TMNT is important to me, pointing out the flaws I see in Peter Laird the business is what's gonna happen.

[odupianist]

I don't think so, I think they'll just keep making toys based on what sells to the kids, most likely tied to the shows or movies. NECA will give the adult market what they have been after and Playmates will keep doing their thing.

I'll agree with you there Tristan. As for the Peter thing, I'm sure he is a nice guy. Obviously you know him better than us, but from our point of view and the limited stuff we know and our lack of Pete talking to us other than letters, it just seems like he can be very cranky, insecure, nit picky, whiny and stubborn. And I say that as nice as possible I promise lol. Pete has done a lot for the TMNT dont get me wrong. It's like celebrity gossip, the good gets overlooked by the bad so we have something to complain about and laugh at. Human nature lol

[turkishproverb]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Pete's stipulation about the "no mutagen" rule is completely fair. Marvel did it to their mutants - people were becoming creatively bankrupt and simply saying "he/she got their powers through mutation", so House of M happened. Whether you liked it or not, something had to happen, and the original TMNT was running the same track for a while - X character + X animal/situation = X mutant.

OH, no. I'm not letting a positive comment about "No more mutants" from HOUSE OF M pass without tellign the facts.


Ah, it should be pointed out that, unlike the "No mutigen" rule, in fact even moreso, this decision was reviled as uneccesary. Especially when Editorial did it as much because they didn't like the idea of mutants representing modern minorities (IE: moving forward in the world, trying to discover a cultural identity while still dealing with varying levels of persicution) as they had begun doing a while before this. The Editor in cheif at marvel at the time (and now) strongly disliked most changes or evolutions to the marvel mythos that happened from about the late seventies/early eighties, to when he became EIC.

In this case, he was specifically trying to undo the X-men work of Grant Morrison, the most visionary writer on the character since Chris Claremont.

Grant moved the mutant polulace to the point of being an acnowledged minority with its own slowly developing cultural identity, complete with mutant fashons, cult figures, fringe groups, etc.

Joe didn't like that, he was upset that mutants now represented a viable group in the world. He didn't like the fact that Xaviers Mansnion was being used as a school for mutants for the first time in a decade. He had a real problem with the human supporting characters that were put into place. He hated that. Just like he hated the idea of evolutionary dead end mutants, or the idea of mutants whose primary concern was not mutant rights, but rather HELPING PEOPLE (this being his excuse, most of the time, for changing things by force of an editiorially driven, badly written event)

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Nobody_At_All

The latest pitch involving the toddler turtles was also derived from the same formula which (as I hear) is:

Playmates internally brainstorms their wants from the show which always equates to more roots oriented media, humor and iconic characters (not far-off concepts and situations like some of you would believe).
+ 4Kids translating those "needs" into weird gimmick shows which they sell to Peter before getting everyone on board 100%
+ down to the wire decisions=rushed mistakes like Fast Forward.

This comment stuck out at me when it was first made, but I didn't say anything about it. Today, it just makes so much sense.