JC Penny to stop carrying TMNT apparel

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Oh well I have to be honest I own a camo shirt myself but because I like whats on it.
But I wouldn't buy that turtles shirt anyway I've not been impressed with a single shirt from the movie.

Yeah, honestly I'm not that big on it, either. I've worn it maybe once. I liked the way it looked on my computer better. AND it's stiff and uncomfortable!

[Jo Dawn]

A.) Penny's carried TMNT stuff? Haha, not here.

Originally Posted by Jester

I just read this blurb on Murph's blog about a fight with JC Penny as well as some of the clothing companies over camo prints. Comments?
I myself don't see the huge deal, but then I'm not a Mirage staffer and I am a military brat. I can understand though if Mirage says "nay." then that should be enough, but I wonder what the hubbub over TMNT on camo prints is. Oh well.

B.) Well... They're ugly. I wouldn't carry it. The camo, mostly.

[sdp]

I hate camo. I wouldn't care if I saw TMNT camo shirts I just wouldn't like them, I've seen other TMNT stuff I don't like. Especially if it was going to cost them that much money.

If I was in charge I would like to stick to a "no camo" rule as well however I am sure my opinion would change if I was going to lose a lot of money..Its not something I'd be too passionate about.

[Archon_Turtle]

That picture murph posted makes a pretty decent desktop background though

I work for a game company that deals with licensors constantly. And while they can be a real pain sometimes (especially some of the families that hold older literary licenses) the fact is that it is their Intellectual Property...so who is ANYONE else to say what they can and cannot do?

[AquaParade]

I respect Mirage for putting more care into their political views then how much money they could be racking in off kids. Go Mirage.

[tmntman]

(I wrote a lengthy post with my thoughts about this over at RTM's Buzz board. And since I'm too lazy to retype all of it, I'll just copy and paste. Forgive me if some points seem like non sequiturs as they may have been addressing things brought up there.)

First of all, kudos to Mirage and Peter Laird for being willing to stick to their principles. You can try to down play this all that you want either by calling them hypocrites since they have use military themes in the past or simply saying that they already have so much money that this is simply no big deal for them. As to the latter, people who earn large amounts of wealth rarely reach a point where they don't wish to earn even more. Even if the folks at Mirage can afford to lose some licensing revenue without feeling a serious financial pinch, they are still demonstrating that they value some principles above greed. That should be respected even if you don't necessarily agree with the principle. As for the form charge that the stand is hypocritical, that is only true if you accept the premises that not supporting the war is the same as not supporting those that are fighting in the war.

To some extent, I also think that even if you do believe in the principles behind this war, that doesn't automatically mean that products such as this should be considered appropriate. Co opting military themes for your product don't actually show support for the war effort and those who fight in it. They profiteer from them. If they wanted to show support for the war and for the troops, a portion of the sale of such products should be donated to the USO or other military support programs. Personally, I think the earlier designs described in the blog entry which used not only camo, but quasi-military imagery should be rejected if only on the principle of not supporting such profiteering.

Lastly, after taking the evening to think about this I have come to the opinion that JC Penny is not the party that is at fault here. If camouflage clothing sells well in their stores, they have every right to look for products that will meet that demand. (And this still assumes that it was JC Penny that chose the camouflage design to begin with. I suspect that it is more likely that the camo pattern was offered to them as an exclusive and they only pulled their orders after the licensee failed to deliver it.) I have a much stronger distaste towards the licensee (Giant) who either offered or at least accepted a design that specifically went against the restrictions they had been given for the license (no military themes / avoid camo) and then attempted to strong arm Mirage into accepting it. According to the blog post, Mirage has been willing to allow camouflage in the past with some restrictions. But rather than work with the license holder and reach an acceptable compromise, Giant tried to hold Mirage over a barrel with the threat of losing both a buyer and all of the revenue which that would entail. While I realize that it only represents one side of the argument, what we have been told leads me to believe that the salesperson from Giant promised something he or she should not have and then tried to play the two parties off against each other. They deserve to lose the sales.

[Drtooth]

I second the "they should stick to their guns" when it comes to the cartoon series (and toys) but then again, I really dislike the idea of the shirts for kids having war imagry. I mean, G.I.Joe is one thing, but I don't see the TMNT in that sort of deal. The cleaned up, non-imagry shirt sounded great, and it seems like they were going to pull for that. But JC was the one that threatened to cancell the order.

I will say, I don't think it really was to make a political statement, but then I have a similar problem with G.I. Joe selling the idea of war to kids as fun. I like Joe and all, but I feel it's like a more PC version of Cowboys and indians. Don't want to go into it, though.


Then of course, we get the nonpolitical aspect- it's not integral to the characters. They are Ninjas, not soldiers. It has a nice design, but it's like using Transformers to sell an old Western style. There's no connection. Of course, the same could be said for 99% of the TMNT action figures, past present and Future.

But I will admit, they did what they thought was right, and I have to give them credit for that.

[Dorkfish]

Originally Posted by tmntman

Lastly, after taking the evening to think about this I have come to the opinion that JC Penny is not the party that is at fault here. If camouflage clothing sells well in their stores, they have every right to look for products that will meet that demand. (And this still assumes that it was JC Penny that chose the camouflage design to begin with. I suspect that it is more likely that the camo pattern was offered to them as an exclusive and they only pulled their orders after the licensee failed to deliver it.) I have a much stronger distaste towards the licensee (Giant) who either offered or at least accepted a design that specifically went against the restrictions they had been given for the license (no military themes / avoid camo) and then attempted to strong arm Mirage into accepting it. According to the blog post, Mirage has been willing to allow camouflage in the past with some restrictions. But rather than work with the license holder and reach an acceptable compromise, Giant tried to hold Mirage over a barrel with the threat of losing both a buyer and all of the revenue which that would entail. While I realize that it only represents one side of the argument, what we have been told leads me to believe that the salesperson from Giant promised something he or she should not have and then tried to play the two parties off against each other. They deserve to lose the sales.

Agreed. If I were in JCP's shoes, I think I would have done the same thing. They lost money on this deal too. Good for them for sticking to their own principles of not being bullied by their licensors.

If not allowing the camo print is a matter of integrity, then why allow Fast Forward to end in such an unsatisfying way (or let it happen in the first place), or, like Rose said, approve of Overload. If not for that, and for the new season looking like it will be animated by some 16 year-old with Macromedia Flash, then I could support their "integrity" shpill. Maybe this little incident will make them put things in perspective...but not likely. They can call it a matter of "morality" or "integrity" all they want, but to me, it just sounds petty.

So, like TMNTman, I don't blame JCP. I blame Giant for not changing the designs before giving them the exclusive rights to sell the camo shirts, especially since Penney's had already been allowed to sell previous TMNT camo shirts for over eight months now! I can't blame them for getting fed up over this.



And for those that can't find the TMNT shirts at JCP, they are only in the little boys' dept.

[Drtooth]

Besides, Penny's isn't all that good anyway. Everytime I go, the only shirts they have are Wrestling. I once saw a Heathcliff shirt, and never saw it again.

I do all my T-shirt buying at Target or Kohl's. Kohl's always has an impressive selection of T-Shirts that I like... Muppets, TMNT, Simpsons, Family Guy....

[Jester]

I can agree too. Giant's the big nasty here, completely going around Mirage's strict "Avoid military themes." But I also agree with the argument "camo's more a fashon than a reflectuion on the military." I don't care for camo, mainly because here people wear hunter's camo...out...in public...and not just after a day in the woods...just out. I do own camop shirtas, cause they look cool that's it. It's little reflection on my political views. It just looks cool, or is quirky (like the "Ha! now you can't see me." camop shirt I owned)

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

But I wouldn't buy that turtles shirt anyway I've not been impressed with a single shirt from the movie.

Yeah, they're all just stock art with the logo...

[TheAnimatedSeries]

And they were such good little capitalists when they completely sold out in the 80's allowing the TMNT to become cookies and dixie cups. But thats good that no TMNT shirts can be on camo print, that move should have the troops home by Thanksgiving.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by TheAnimatedSeries

And they were such good little capitalists when they completely sold out in the 80's allowing the TMNT to become cookies and dixie cups. But thats good that no TMNT shirts can be on camo print, that move should have the troops home by Thanksgiving.

Really good comparison there.
Oh and tell me what does buying a camo shirt have to do with bringing troops home?

[Jester]

It's sarcasm pointed at the fact that the "No Camo" order is a political statement, and by so doing Peter is soooo helping bring troops home....or at least that's how I read it.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

I mean having a rule of no camo is the tiniest little thing Laird can do to allow himself to sleep at night pretending he has any integrity left, and going to such extremes to oppose association with the U.S. military (which these shirts dont even provide) is a pointless act because it will affect nothing. No bad would come out of having TMNT on camo print (other than its tacky) and no good will come out of banning it.

Its like he thinks that this is some positive act for a moral good when its just a piss.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by TheAnimatedSeries

I mean having a rule of no camo is the tiniest little thing Laird can do to allow himself to sleep at night pretending he has any integrity left, and going to such extremes to oppose association with the U.S. military (which these shirts dont even provide) is a pointless act because it will affect nothing. No bad would come out of having TMNT on camo print (other than its tacky) and no good will come out of banning it.

Its like he thinks that this is some positive act for a moral good when its just a piss.

Is it any suprise though? Just about anything he does these days he thinks is gold when its piss.

[Jester]

Piss is gold....

[Kendamu]

So, yeah, the blog was updated. JCP was just bluffing. The end.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Jester

Piss is gold....

exactly.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by TheAnimatedSeries

I mean having a rule of no camo is the tiniest little thing Laird can do to allow himself to sleep at night pretending he has any integrity left, and going to such extremes to oppose association with the U.S. military (which these shirts dont even provide) is a pointless act because it will affect nothing. No bad would come out of having TMNT on camo print (other than its tacky) and no good will come out of banning it.

Its like he thinks that this is some positive act for a moral good when its just a piss.

Well, in his defense, it does about as much to bring the troops home as holding giant protests. Which of course is nothing.