Michaelangelo smart? Boy has he got the wrong turtle...

[Darth Shredder]

Hmm. I see live-action Mikey's personality from the first movie as being RIGHT FROM the OT. Which is a good thing.

[Evenstar227]

I voted for Mirage Mikey. Recently reread the last ish of the City at War arc, where Leo, Raph, & Mikey are reunited with April & Casey on the farm. He's holding Shadow and says she's a "miss of unimpeachable good taste". That's a pretty big word.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Jelly Bean

you know now that I've seen more of the 80's toon I believe I've gotten a better feel for the turtles characters, and I have to wonder why exactly did every one one including the turtles think Mikey was dumb? From what I've seen he seems pretty capable and intelligent enough over-all and he doesn't screw up all that much but I'm noticing that the other turtles tend to make little quips about him not being too smart in the 80's toon, and he doesn't seem (to me any way) to really do anything that terriably dumb. From what I've seen so far 80's Mike seems to deserve being called stpid even less than CGI and NT Mikey.

yeah, I don't think so eighther, Mike in the OT may have had his moments of being a flake but he never screwed up or made mistakes in judgement any more so than the other turtles individually. Some times it seemed like Michaelangelo coulnd't make a mistake with out being called a idiot but the others could. I think the turtles had a slight tendacy to look down on him because his demeaner and attitude was very straight forward and maybe a mite too laid back. Giving him the appearance of eigther over looking crucial things, or taking it to simplely. And sometimes the simple way is the best way.

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

[Kendamu]

Mikey's not stupid. He's just lighthearted, likes to crack jokes, and takes his "younger brother" status for granted.

[Jelly Bean]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

Mikey's not stupid. He's just lighthearted, likes to crack jokes, and takes his "younger brother" status for granted.

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him.

And I asked why the turtles think Mikey is dumb because they seem to make alot of remarks about him being stupid when he is not even doing anything stupid. One that stands out in my mind was in the SWORD OF YUKANA episode, where Splinter is explaining the swords ability to change and Mikey stops him asking how some thing change but stay the same, and Don and Raph say some along the lines of "forget it Mikey it's to deep for you" and "a kiddy pool is to deep for him". WTF? Exactly how was Mikey asking that, that stupid? From the episodes I've seen I'm noticeing the turtles, ushaully Raph or Don, will make comment on him being dumb when he isn't doing anything stupid?

Mikey from 2k3 is WAY cornier than anything I ever watched in the OT, so I don't know where a lot of people get off with the complaints (not in this thread, I'm talking about in general where some claim the OT was a total cheese show).

Are you talking about the all of the OT show compared to 2k3 Mikey or just OT Mikey and 2k3 Mikey?

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

what episode is this from?

[Darth Shredder]

Originally Posted by Jelly Bean

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him.

And I asked why the turtles think Mikey is dumb because they seem to make alot of remarks about him being stupid when he is not even doing anything stupid. One that stands out in my mind was in the SWORD OF YUKANA episode, where Splinter is explaining the swords ability to change and Mikey stops him asking how some thing change but stay the same, and Don and Raph say some along the lines of "forget it Mikey it's to deep for you" and "a kiddy pool is to deep for him". WTF? Exactly how was Mikey asking that, that stupid? From the episodes I've seen I'm noticeing the turtles, ushaully Raph or Don, will make comment on him being dumb when he isn't doing anything stupid?

A group of four brothers is bound to have a member that is singled out for good-hearted teasing. It's a fact of life. I have three brothers myself, all of them younger than me, and the one that we are playful around the most is actually (admittedly) the most accomplished: he scores high grades in school, attends a karate dojo once a week, and has a strong sense of humor. We exchange humorous cheap shots all the time, but remain dedicated and loyal family.

There's also the fact that Mikey's plans backfire in the OT one time too many. In "Usagi Yojimbo", he plans to calm the dragon from wreaking havoc on New York by feeding it grain. What happens? It instead grows in size, meaning it's more dangerous.

Mikey is very obviously a competent ninja. He's also the most playful of the Turtles, and his brothers pick up on that, and take advantage of certain situations to rub it in. It may appear "offensive" on the surface, but it's simply another way of bonding.

[odupianist]

I think Mike is quite smart in all of his incarnations. Mirage is obviously the smartest, but like someone said before, they're all different creations of Mike. CGI Mike seems the dumbest to me BUT we didnt get to see him develop or have enough opportunity to prove us wrong.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Darth Shredder

There's also the fact that Mikey's plans backfire in the OT one time too many. In "Usagi Yojimbo", he plans to calm the dragon from wreaking havoc on New York by feeding it grain. What happens? It instead grows in size, meaning it's more dangerous.

funny, wasn't the idea to feed grain to the dragon Leonardo's idea? Michaelangelo only wondered that maybe the dragon was hungry, Leonardo was the one who decided to cut open the grain tower and feed it to the dragon. But then Raphael made a sarcastic remark that Michaelangelo screwed every thing up when it wasn't even his idea to begin with.

I don't recall to many times where OT Mike's ideas or plans back fired on him. In season two's episode mean machines he thought of useing a box of explosives to destroy a bunch of rampaging construction equipment by luring one of them to smash it, by sitting on the box knowing it would go for him; to name one.

The thing is all the turtles in the OT had their moments of screwing up or doing something stupid. Even Donatello, and he was the smartest turtle of the bunch in the OT and every so often he would be portrayed as being a flake. The only thing about OT Michaelangelo is that he would be treated the harshest for having a bad idea or if a plan didn't go right. More often than not we are told that Michaelangelo is dumb more often than he is, ushaully by Raphal, who--incidently, never had much input on ideas or plans, just made made fun of anyone who did, if their idea went wrong.

Hmm. I see live-action Mikey's personality from the first movie as being RIGHT FROM the OT. Which is a good thing.

I do too. I don't know why so many people say he better or smarter than rest since he still had many aspects about him that was taken right from OT's portrayal of Mike.

[Darth Shredder]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

funny, wasn't the idea to feed grain to the dragon Leonardo's idea? Michaelangelo only wondered that maybe the dragon was hungry, Leonardo was the one who decided to cut open the grain tower and feed it to the dragon. But then Raphael made a sarcastic remark that Michaelangelo screwed every thing up when it wasn't even his idea to begin with.

From watching, it's actually unclear who thought of it.

They all noticed the grain elevator, thought they could exploit it to their benefit in some way, but Mikey seemed to lead the way in ripping the grain elevator open to dump a big pile of grain in front of their pursuer.

Plus, Mikey owned up to it being his idea.

The thing is all the turtles in the OT had their moments of screwing up or doing something stupid.

That's true.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

This thread caught my attention and forgive me that as a newbie I will be giving a piece of my mind. Here goes.

I never considered good ol' Mikey as a dumb teen turtle. He is funny and hyper most of the time, but definitely not stupid even in the new toon. Why is it that people associate people with a sense of humor as being a moron? In reality, comedians need to be street-wise or even intelligent to think of a joke or to pull out the joke (not that Mikey does the deed in purpose to be funny, Kevin and Peter do, but I'm just making a point). Mikey lacks the 24/7 seriousness of Leo, the bouts between anger and more anger of Raph, plus the geekiness of Don, but that doesn't make Mikey dumb. He just likes to look at things in a simpler manner. Let me give you an example:

From the 4th Movie (CGI)

Mikey: (after Don gave a very thorough and complex scientific explanation of how bad the situation was) So, it's like Haley's comet-- only monsters come out?
Don: Well, I guess you're right, Mikey.
*My Comment: What's wrong with being simpling complicated things out? Is being simple synonymous to being an airhead?


Sometimes, Mikey gets into comic scenes like:

In the 2nd Movie

Don: You think anybody could find a place down hear?
Mikey: But, noooooooo.
Don: You think an idiot could find a place down hear
Mickey: But (fall down a hole) nooooooooooooooooo!
*My Comment: Yah. So, the scene was created to make Mikey appear funny for comic relief. But, hey, admit that you have a couple of accidents every now and then.


Here's one more:

Again, from the 4th Movie (CGI)

Mikey: Leo! Is that really you? I'm dreaming, aren't I? [Gives him a big hug.]
Leo: No, Mikey. You're not dreaming.
Michelangelo: Good. I had nightmares about birthday parties.
*My Comment: Might be funny but if you will dig deeper, it clearly shows that Mikey has somewhat developed a trauma with his job considering that he liked it a first. We should give Mikey a break that even if he is dubbed as the "youngest" (not literally in age but in spirit), he had the will to help his "older" brother put food on the table putting aside his well-being (imagine yourself being whacked by solid wood poles a hundred times a week by people who don't get reprimanded by it) for a few bucks. No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).


From the new toon:
Mikey: I don't know what's scarier: the fact that that worked, or that Don carries around a pigeon puppet.
My Comment: I was laughing real loud at this. It's freaking funny, really. Plus, Mikey thought of that when the other two Turtles didn't.


Another example:

In the Mirage comics, Mikey did became an accomplished writer. I don't think his work will make it into his bestseller list if he was a moron.


Last one:

From the 1st Movie

Mikey: (while watching on TV "The Tortoise and the Hare"): Go! Ah your letting him go right by ya. Ahh! Ninja kick the damn rabbit!
*My comment: I found this a funny line. I realize that most of the funny lines come from Mikey (as if we don't all don't realize it here). What I'm trying to say I guess is that, Peter and Kevin designed Mikey to be a comic relief so it's given that he does and say things that are funny and that needs a lot of thinking. Being funny doesn't mean you are dumb.


Enough said. Logging out now. I'm sorry if I offended someone, specially Raph fans.

[Sage Ninja]

um, I'm confused. Are you offended by the content of this thread? Because based on the nature of your responces, you are coming across rather needlessly defencesive. The nature of this thread is for you to give reasons of why you think which version of Michaelangelo is smart and vote, not bash who is stupid. However I will say that when it comes to Michaelangelo sometines writers confuse funny with making fun of. I'm of the opinion that for a character to be "funny" he doesn't have to be the object of humilation and physical humour (slap stick) to humourous. Stand up comedians make jokes and witty obsevations at life and things around them or even them selves, but never by acting like a a walking joke to be laughed at not with. Which is something they have done to often to poor Mike in most mediums, making him appear stupid.

Mikey dumb. He just likes to look at things in a simpler manner

I agree and I adressed this already. I think you missed my post about OT Mike's simplier look on things. I even gave an example. Here is what I wrote:

I think the turtles had a slight tendacy to look down on him because his demeaner and attitude was very straight forward and maybe a mite too laid back. Giving him the appearance of eigther over looking crucial things, or taking it to simplely. And sometimes the simple way is the best way.

Donatello: we need to get to the other side of this wall some how, quick Michaelangelo climb up here with me and my turtle catapault will fling us to the other side. I've calculated the speed and wind resistence and our weight so the arc of the fling will propel us perfectly over the wall in a safe manner.

Michaelangelo: uh, dude, why don't we just climb over and jump down?

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

um, I'm confused. Are you offended by the content of this thread? Because based on the nature of your responces, you are coming across rather needlessly defencesive. The nature of this thread is for you to give reasons of why you think which version of Michaelangelo is smart and vote, not bash who is stupid.

Oh, my apologies if you misunderstood me, Sage-san. I'm not offended on the content of this thread. I'm just exhausted of the people who thinks Michaelangelo is stupid (they may not be in this thread, but there are, alright). Even with your title

Michaelangelo smart?

It has a (?) implying that it is questionable for some people that he is smart (of course not you). Plus, my last line was

Enough said. Logging out now. I'm sorry if I offended someone, specially Raph fans.

meaning that I am not the one who is offended, rather, I'm just worried if I offended someone specially Raph fans in my statement

No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).

Oh, and regarding

I think you missed my post about OT Mike's simplier look on things. I even gave an example.

No, I didn't miss your post. I love the quote you gave regarding the siblings. Tell you the truth, this is one of the threads that made me sign up as a member in this forum in the first place. I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding the issue. Regarding the poll, I voted for Mirage.

[Jelly Bean]

Mikey: Leo! Is that really you? I'm dreaming, aren't I? [Gives him a big hug.]
Leo: No, Mikey. You're not dreaming.
Michelangelo: Good. I had nightmares about birthday parties.
*My Comment: Might be funny but if you will dig deeper, it clearly shows that Mikey has somewhat developed a trauma with his job considering that he liked it a first. We should give Mikey a break that even if he is dubbed as the "youngest" (not literally in age but in spirit), he had the will to help his "older" brother put food on the table putting aside his well-being (imagine yourself being whacked by solid wood poles a hundred times a week by people who don't get reprimanded by it) for a few bucks. No offense to Raph fans, but I believe that if you can't take care of your own household first, how can you take care of others' households? (My family is starving, but it's OK 'coz I knocked off some street gang members down the alley).

heh, good point right here about CGI Mikey, he and Don are both sacrificing their ninja life style for Splinter's sake and doing things that aggravate them and hate, but they do it to keep their family afloat. I guess that shows alot of maturity. Although I think your example about Raph is pretty off, the turtles where never ever close to starving, and if they where Raph would make them his priority instead of kicking the crap out of street thugs.

And yeah, Mikey's Haley's Comit, remark might have made him look insightful for all of two and a half seconds, but that is quickly taken away from him by making him fall on his head like moron. In fact the whole way that scene was set up was to point out how idiotic he was, not smart.

I do agree with your idea that being happy or having a sence of humour doesn't make you dumb. But You really can't say that Mikey doesn't do things that make him look dumb. In the movie and 4KIDs cartoon Mikey kind of deserves getting called an idiot because he seems to act foolish just for the sake of it. 80's toon Mikey, from what I've seen, doesn't seem to deserve it as much as the others. Because even though he goofs around and messes up sometimes, he does seem like he is actively trying to think things through or come up with ideas and carry them out to help the team, instead of just acting silly, and he still gets slamed by the other turtles.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Originally Posted by Jelly Bean

And yeah, Mikey's Haley's Comet, remark might have made him look insightful for all of two and a half seconds, but that is quickly taken away from him by making him fall on his head like moron. In fact the whole way that scene was set up was to point out how idiotic he was, not smart.

Yup, Jelly-san, that falling down scene looked (gulp, I admit) idiotic. Sigh. I don't get it. Michaelangelo had a moment of glory skating in the maze-like sewers as if he was an Xtreme Sports Champion of the Decade at the first half of the movie, then he falls down in a much simpler routine? I wish there will be a whole cartoon episode where Michaelangelo becomes a "Leo-respected persona" for once (a somewhat opposite of the Leo turning whacky ep in the OT).

[TheUltimateShredhead]

gee, this thread is still running

[Sage Ninja]

Oh, my apologies if you misunderstood me, Sage-san. I'm not offended on the content of this thread. I'm just exhausted of the people who thinks Michaelangelo is stupid (they may not be in this thread, but there are, alright). Even with your title

my title is a sort of tongue-in-cheek dig at an actual quote from the orginal series that Raphael made in responce to some some one saying that Michaelangelo was smart. The irony of this remark is that it pretty much shows what people in general think of Michaelangelo, and what he has to deal with. No matter what he does that proves other wise, his friends think he's not as intellecually gifted as they are. Even though in the very episode where this quote is uttered by Raphael, Michaelangelo succusfully out manuvers a mad sciencetists traps and does it almost primarly by thinking around them. Practially for the other turtles to see and they still think he's dumb.

So the title I used was not me being direspectful toward Michaelangelo but just a ironic wording describing Michaelangelo, which turned out to be false.

[Jelly Bean]

Originally Posted by OrokuSaki123

gee, this thread is still running

and yet you contributed to this threads activity by posting a pointless question on why it was still running. Thats like the same as gobo's advice of making FF a finacial succuss in order to destroy it.

Sage Ninja, what episode is it that that quote comes from? Is it in season three?

[NameGoesHere1066]

is Mikey really the youngest in the 80's toon? He really doesn't seem like he is the youngest of the turtles in that series from what I've seen. He doesn't really have alot of "youngest memeber of the group" qualites to him from what I've seen of him.

I don't think Mike is the youngest in the old toon, I think they are all about the same age. Honestly I liked that because he was just a guy who took things more in stride than the others, like in the mirage comics, neighther old toon or Mirage Mike ever acted like the annoying yet cute younger sibling, they where their siblings equals not little brothers that needed extra protection.

Honestly I don't get why this obsession of age order has come from? Or why in recent mediums the writers feel the need to distinguish the turtles age rank by giving them obviouse characteristics that classify them as oldest second oldest, ect. Personaly I like their age placement to be ambiguious so it's not clear who is oldest and youngest. I don't like it because they tend to give them sterotypical characteristcs of younger and older. Which is what they've done to Mike recently by making him more childish and dependent with a mind set of an eight year old, and they made him the annoying little brother sterotype, ugh! They even went and gave him a more childish nick name "Mikey"; in the mirage comics they never call him Mikey, it was "Mike" which sounds less cutesy and babyish.

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?

what episode is it that that quote comes from? Is it in season three?

it's from the episode "what's Michaelangelo good for?" and I can't remember what season it's from. This is a special episode because Mike doesn't once mention or eat pizza in it!

[superturtle]

the old toon mikey is more serious then the new toon but the comic one is nasty he acts like raph

[Jelly Bean]

Originally Posted by NameGoesHere1066

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?

what's wrong with Mikey being the youngest in the group? It may make him look helpless and niave but it brings out the affectionate protective side of Leo, Don, and Raph and kind of serves to make the turtles look more closer to each other.

the old toon mikey is more serious then the new toon but the comic one is nasty he acts like raph

What do you mean the comic version of Mikey is nasty because he acts like Raph?