eight year old kills his father and man

[Sage Ninja]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...Child.Charged/

A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should handle guns and had taught him how to use a rifle, the clergyman said Saturday.

The father, Vincent Romero, 29, was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns, said the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter of St. Johns Catholic Church. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.

Romero taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, Sauter said. Police say the boy used a .22-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.

The priest did not say how he advised the couple but said Saturday that the boy "was just too young."

"That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal," Sauter said.

The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police are looking into whether he might have been abused.

"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."

The boy's father and stepmother had gotten married in September, said Sauter, who presided over the wedding.

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother had visited St. Johns from Mississippi the previous weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, Carlyon said.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.

The boy's lawyer, Benjamin Brewer, said his client is generally in good spirits.

"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

Police are also investigating whether there were any domestic violence calls to the Romero home in the past, Melnick said.

Officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns.

The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said.

Melnick said police got a confession, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.

I wonder what could have gotten into that boy. It's pretty scarey that a child that young would commit premeditated murder.

[GK Punk]

The news report I saw said it was belived the father or man abused the boy.

[Ninjinister]

What the flip is up with people thinking that eight year olds can handle guns?

Anyone who puts a gun in a kid's hand and teaches them how to use it deserves to get shot.

Like really... A man teaching his kid to kill animals? That worthless peice of **** deserves to get shot. And good riddence! I feel absolutely no remorse for trash like that man.

[Buslady]

and it happens again...jsut this time the kid kills the father instead of himself.

brilliant morons

[Evenstar227]

I wouldn't think a man who abused his kid would give him a weapon. That's just asking for it. The family is a hunting family; they wouldn't think anything of teaching a kid to use a gun. What I find odd is that they asked a priest if he should use a gun, and that the kid had unsupervised access to the weapon. I'm sure there's a lot more to this story we don't know.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Evenstar227

I wouldn't think a man who abused his kid would give him a weapon. That's just asking for it. The family is a hunting family; they wouldn't think anything of teaching a kid to use a gun. What I find odd is that they asked a priest if he should use a gun, and that the kid had unsupervised access to the weapon. I'm sure there's a lot more to this story we don't know.

That's right, never trust the media completely. They always put a spin on things to make one side or the other sound more sympathetic.

[Lil G]

first an oozy... now a murder... wat's up with 8 year olds these days?

[Mecha Cow]

Personally, I blame video games.

[Spitfire]

What is there to hunt in the desert anyway, jack rabbits and lizards?

personally it's the Dad's fault for allowing himself to be shot by an 8 year old. It'd be pretty easy to avoid that unless the kids an expert marksman and can hit his heart or head.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Lil G

first an oozy... now a murder... wat's up with 8 year olds these days?

They were born around the time of 9/11, I think.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Buslady

brilliant morons

Is this anything like an idiot savant or just a case of a missing comma?

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by Ryona

Anyone who puts a gun in a kid's hand and teaches them how to use it deserves to get shot.

Like really... A man teaching his kid to kill animals? That worthless peice of **** deserves to get shot. And good riddence! I feel absolutely no remorse for trash like that man.

Whoa now, my father taught me how use a firearm and hunt when I was that age without incident. For some families (mine included) shooting is just like throwing a football, it's not about killing or having good aim or how "cool" the guns are...it's just another way to have fun. I grew up in a "hunting family" and they've stressed gun safety from day one and, well, it worked. It worked for all my hunting buddies and anyone I shoot with too (obviously).

My best guess is that this is an 8 year old who didn't know that killing prairie dogs and humans are two VERY different things.

[Lil G]

Originally Posted by Mino

They were born around the time of 9/11, I think.

lol dats true... never thought of it that way

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Wingnut

Whoa now, my father taught me how use a firearm and hunt when I was that age without incident. For some families (mine included) shooting is just like throwing a football, it's not about killing or having good aim or how "cool" the guns are...it's just another way to have fun. I grew up in a "hunting family" and they've stressed gun safety from day one and, well, it worked. It worked for all my hunting buddies and anyone I shoot with too (obviously).

When it comes to this sort of thing, some people are more mature than others. Some people who have kids and hunt teach their kids with no incident. I still think something like this should weigh on if the child is ready.

I hate guns and I don't get hunting (unless you plan to eat/use the dead body if you're camping or something), but if people wanna do it, they have to make sure NOT to let these things happen. I'm not saying the government should take your stuff away, just lock it up at a gun club or something...

[Evenstar227]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

When it comes to this sort of thing, some people are more mature than others. Some people who have kids and hunt teach their kids with no incident. I still think something like this should weigh on if the child is ready.

I hate guns and I don't get hunting (unless you plan to eat/use the dead body if you're camping or something), but if people wanna do it, they have to make sure NOT to let these things happen. I'm not saying the government should take your stuff away, just lock it up at a gun club or something...

That's a reasonable expectation, but sadly it's easier said than done. That's the flip side of living in a free society; people have the freedom to do all sorts of stuff, but it's also a lot easier for them to make tragic mistakes or do stupid crap. Take driving, for instance. If everyone obeyed the laws, drove defensively, and didn't do stupid sh*t, there probably wouldn't be any issues (although accidents do happen). But do people do that? No. I seem to recall hearing that statistically, cars have killed more people than guns. If you advocate taking guns away, by the same logic you ought to take cars away too. (Note: this is considering guns and cars to be tools, and leaving all politics aside.)

The tricky thing is to find the balance between too few rules and too many. And to make it more fun, there will always be people who push for one extreme or the other.

Discipline without freedom is tyranny. Freedom without discipline is chaos. ~Cullen Hightower

[Zog the Equalizer]

I learned to use a gun at a pretty early age myself, but my dad always always stressed gun safety. He also made sure I new what I could and could not shoot. To this day he keeps all the guns in our house, including the two that belong to me, in an undisclosed location.

[shuriken]

That's pretty f**ked up. I dunno what was going on there but there was definietly something screwey between the father and son for that to occur. As for the whole letting an 8 year hold and know how to use a gun is just asking for trouble is (in my humble opinion) not necessarily true. I've known how to load and use a gun since I was seven. I've never felt the urge to kill anyone (much less my dad). I also know a lot of my friends that go hunting and stuff have known since there were six to eight. Like Replicant said it's all about gun safety.

[Katie]

I personally think this kid has a serious mental problem. At first everyone was screaming abuse, but everything I've seen on this case says that this was a normal loving family. the kid had regular physicals in which no abuse was detected and his school, family friends, the mother, etc., all say that there was no indication that anything bad was going on between the dad and the kid.

This kid knows what death is. he knows its forever. My grandfather died when I was eight and I was VERY clear that this was not some temporary state for him. I wonder if this kid has ever killed animals, etc. They say that is the entry level for some killers. wonder if anyone saw those types of signs?

I doubt seriously that if that father had thought for a second that there was anything wrong mentally with that kid...or if he had been responsible for any abuse to that kid, that he would have given him a gun. Abuse is about controlling someone some way. Arming them is empowering them. doesn't make any sense.

[Sage Ninja]

hey update on the case here:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...Child.Charged/