There's Only One Man Who Could Save the Turtles...

[Venom]

Unfortunately he severed ties to the characters he created.

Seriously though, while I like Peter's high-concept stories, what the Turtle comics needed for the 21st century was the attitude his style brings. The first part of this decade saw the proliferation of comics becoming harder, grittier, and edgier than ever before and the Turtles made a complete 180 from that direction when it should have been embraced.

Many may disagree with me, but take a look at what comics sell strongly: those that deal with dark, gritty materials and whose characters have some demons to work out. Even mainstream publishers have a harder edge to them to the point where most comics are geared toward the mature reader.
To illustrate a more recent example is Tristan's stories in Tales being wildly popular. Why? Because it felt like the Turtles of old. He had the Foot, he had the grit.

If the Turtles had went back to their roots and relaunched, they may still be going strong. But instead we had a continuation of their story, and while I do like seeing the guys get older and getting a glimpse into their lives now, the majority of the public would rather see them as teenagers kicking ass and taking names.

I agree that Kevin Eastman needs to join forces with Peter Laird again for the best TMNT possible. But I disagree that the TMNT have to go back to being teenagers again in the comics. Everyone grows up. I like that the TMNT have aged. Makes them more real that way.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo83

Seriously though, while I like Peter's high-concept stories, what the Turtle comics needed for the 21st century was the attitude his style brings. The first part of this decade saw the proliferation of comics becoming harder, grittier, and edgier than ever before

You mean comics became nothing but shock-value bore-fests which have since come back to bite them in the ass?

TMNT did that for a very good reason: The major titles produce nothing but gritty and "edgy" nonsense over genuine substance and characterisation. Old-school titles which focus on high-concept or HONEST progression are far superior.

[turkishproverb]

Agree with Zarius on this one, the direction comics are taking is the reason they started tanking even before the economic situation. The problems with Turtles aren't strictly grit related, although a little more might help, they're related to marketing and lack of fresh blood or even old blood. The turtles are anemic at present.

[Archon_Turtle]

If Heavy Metal ever became the primary publisher of the turtles...I would pretty much **** a pile of bricks.

[Sage Ninja]

not that I don't like Kevin, but why do so many people villify Peter and raise up Kevin so much?

[trustno1]

what makes you think kevin would do any better? the only reason the comics are failing right now is because there is no flagship title. if ther were a main book, then tales has a reason to exist, as it supplements the core title. tales without the core title is a random mash of stories. if there was some continuity to the books instead of breaking the moo mesa story up over seven issue intervals then it migt do better.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

not that I don't like Kevin, but why do so many people villify Peter and raise up Kevin so much?

I'd say it's their difference in personalities that does it, I can't speak for everyone but that's how I see it.
Kevin seems more down to earth, while Peter seems to talk down to people more often than not.

[Cipher]

God, this argument is as old as undue veneration of Eastman is ridiculous.

The best TMNT seems to come from both co-creators at the wheel (although there've been great concepts and writing from people like Murphy and Lawson).

Personally, I like the more subdued stories of Laird. I like the direction alot. I think that a more balls-to-the-wall Eastman direction might help the book sell more, but I still think the ideal is to have both men working on it, or even someone fresh.

I'd say it's their difference in personalities that does it, I can't speak for everyone but that's how I see it.
Kevin seems more down to earth, while Peter seems to talk down to people more often than not.

Maybe that's because Laird still bears responsibility for the franchise, while Eastman does not. When people talk to Laird it's always something like "Boo, why are you doing this with the stories?", while when they talk to Eastman it's always "We miss you. Your Turtles were so awesome." How can you not expect differing reactions under those circumstances?

[Venom]

First, I must apologize for not finishing a thought. I was distracted and realized the time and had to leave so I did not complete my post.

As far as the guys being teenagers, I prefer them aging as well, that was what I was going to say next. But to the general public, the best thing for the Turtles may very well be a reboot of sorts since they may not understand "Okay, why are they teens in this series but in this one here they're all in their thirties?".

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

You mean comics became nothing but shock-value bore-fests which have since come back to bite them in the ass?

Not entirely, no. Look at all the major events that have taken place over the last few years with the Big Two. Say what you will with Bendis, but he has crafted a pretty intricate story that has helped steer Marvel to the forefront of comics for the moment. DC also has had high-caliber arcs as well. Many of concepts were not meant for children, as many, MANY books out today are, and some even have rather graphic depictions of violence, but the way it was crafted into the story was done tastefully and was an integral part of the story rather than some squandered panel meant for shock. By no means am I saying turn the Turtles into The Authority or Kick-Ass. Perhaps more along the lines of Dynamite's Project Superpowers, which takes Golden Age characters and bring them to modern times, in a very literal sense, and present them to a world that is much like our own.

Originally Posted by trustno1

what makes you think kevin would do any better? the only reason the comics are failing right now is because there is no flagship title...

I mainly wanted a reason to use that topic headline. I never villified Peter not put Kevin on a pedestal, as I enjoy Peter's stories and the development he wishes to provide the guys. What I meant was the Turtles lack the harder edge they had when Kevin was part of the team. Kevin and Peter are yin and yang almost personified (if only one was female...er, scratch that.) in terms of what each brought to the team.

As far as writers and such, Murphy is probably my favorite writer as the very first Mirage book I picked up was written by Murph.

[joe-eyeball]

I am not sure Kevin is the one to save the Turtles. I have no problem with Pete running the show, however, I do feel that maybe some new blood needs to injected to the Turtles. You know just change it up a little bit.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo83

Not entirely, no. Look at all the major events that have taken place over the last few years with the Big Two.

I'd rather not. There pretty much all the same s*it.

Say what you will with Bendis, but he has crafted a pretty intricate story that has helped steer Marvel to the forefront of comics for the moment.

I don't credit people with making people act out-of-character and granting several strong female characters ridiculous deaths and scizophrensic mood swings. Bendis' best stuff has been Ultimate Spider-Man, Alias, and ressurecting Mockingbird. That's it. He was stretched far too thin for the last three years, he wrote the ABYSMAL Avengers Dissassembled as well...which still makes anything by Jeph Loeb look like tears curing lukemia.

I don't reward stupidity. Marvel are only getting by on shock value and I don't rate market strategy like that. It's void of originality and intelligence.

Bendis is a flavour of the month sensationalist at his worst and a great character writer at his best in a liberated universe, keep him where he can do the most good, not places where he loses sight of his own horizons

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo83

Unfortunately he severed ties to the characters he created.

Seriously though, while I like Peter's high-concept stories, what the Turtle comics needed for the 21st century was the attitude his style brings. The first part of this decade saw the proliferation of comics becoming harder, grittier, and edgier than ever before and the Turtles made a complete 180 from that direction when it should have been embraced.

Many may disagree with me, but take a look at what comics sell strongly: those that deal with dark, gritty materials and whose characters have some demons to work out. Even mainstream publishers have a harder edge to them to the point where most comics are geared toward the mature reader.

"Dark and gritty" does not necessarily make for a good book. Otherwise, every character created in the 90's would have had the same staying power as Marvel and DC's core characters.

To me a mature comic is one that takes the time to come up with a well thought out storyline and characters that make the reader want to pick up the next issue, as opposed to say...those silver age DC comics which had a lot of hokey stories that didn't apply to any ongoing storyline. There are tons of "dark" and "gritty" comics that are far from mature.

"Edginess" is not the answer. The current TMNT comics are not easy for new readers to get into. Other comics have many decades of back stories, but they also always have "jumping on" points for new readers. Someone trying to understand the TMNT comics now would be really confused: what's with all of the aliens? Casey has a daughter? Where are the foot clan?

Spoiler:

April is a drawing?

It also helps to have the older comics easily available for new readers in the form of graphic novels.

[Dragon Turtle]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

not that I don't like Kevin, but why do so many people villify Peter and raise up Kevin so much?

Kevin isn't involved with the turtles, and thus is free of any criticism that may currently be given at the handling of the TMNT franchise.

[Roseangelo]

I don't know why I bother.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I'll just say that Kevin has never been an ass to me or my friends, and Peter has.

Yes, but have you given him reason to?

I'm just saying, if roles were reversed and Eastman was sole owner of the TMNT and had some of us fans say to him the things we say to Peter, he'd probably be "an ass" to us too.

[Roseangelo]

I don't know why I bother.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Peter has a long history of being rude and disrespectful to people that goes beyond whatever you've witnessed.

I know Peter's history...but do you really think if Kevin Eastman had the same things said to him, he wouldn't also act the same, defencive way?

[Roseangelo]

I don't know why I bother.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Peter has a long history of being rude and disrespectful to people that goes beyond whatever you've witnessed.

Examples? I know he has been defensive in the last few years. I don't blame him for being defensive, but from what I've read he could have approached it in a nicer way.