Some insight from inside the TMNT World

Canadian Turtle · 02-16-2009, 10:25 AM

So as many of you know I am currently deep in production on the TMNT documentary project, I can say we are achieving much more than I thought we would be able to! The official TMNT community has been a major help so far! I can't thank them enough!

I have seen a lot of threads on here about the "doom and gloom" of the franchise, talking about the ending of TMNT, if and when we get a movie, and so on.

We, as you can imaging I spoke about such things with many of the people I was privileged enough to get to know.

I can't say everything but I will say a few things.

First off these people all deserve a lot more credit than we give them, they are too often cut down on here with no reason. They are working very hard to continue to bring you a quality product that we all love and enjoy.

The Current Show: I know that Peter is very proud of what they have accomplished on the new show! As I believe many of us would agree. When the new show comes to an end we shouldn't freak out, we can't expect it to last forever. It is no secret that there is a "feature" project with the new cartoon being premiered at Sandi Con by 4kids. This was discussed at their panel which I am sure you can find on the net.

The New Movie: This I can't say to much about other than they are talking about it, it would likely be a "hybrid" style shoot, and people are confident it may happen some day soon. In the world of movie making deals rest on dollars and contracts, as much as the Mirage crew wants to make something it can be put on hold by the powers that be. Though Peter seemed optamistic about it!

TMNT Longevity: Personally I think it is silly that people are worried about TMNT "going away" How can it go away any more than super man or batman can go away? Even if it sleeps for a while it will never disappear forever. From the perspective of some at Mirage taking a break can be a huge help to get those creative juices flowing again. When being so close to one specific property some times you need a little time to step back and take a breather, but in that case they will be back.

Lets cut them some slack, I think we are pretty lucky and have a vibrant and very alive franchise compared to pretty much all others of the same generation.

Thanks! Check for more updates on the doc at: www.turtledoc.com

*Kendamu* · 02-16-2009, 10:38 AM

Speaking of taking a breather, nice to get some optimistic fresh air in here!

*CyberCubed* · 02-16-2009, 10:46 AM

If the TMNT cartoon ends, then TMNT is pretty much dead outside the comics.

The cartoons are always what attracts kids to the franchise, and without a cartoon and a toyline to advertise it, TMNT might as well go back to being an obscure comic book franchise.

Its actually pretty disappointing that no effort to renew the show for another season is being made by any of the three parties. Does Playmates actually expect their toys to continue to sell without a cartoon? Does 4kids not want to bank off merchandize success of the possible 5th movie with new eps of the cartoon?

It really is troubling. Sure, we'll have the comics, but without a cartoon on the air the TMNT franchise is for the most part dead. Its a damn shame.

Leonardo19 · 02-16-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Turtle

So as many of you know I am currently deep in production on the TMNT documentary project, I can say we are achieving much more than I thought we would be able to! The official TMNT community has been a major help so far! I can't thank them enough!

I have seen a lot of threads on here about the "doom and gloom" of the franchise, talking about the ending of TMNT, if and when we get a movie, and so on.

We, as you can imaging I spoke about such things with many of the people I was privileged enough to get to know.

I can't say everything but I will say a few things.

First off these people all deserve a lot more credit than we give them, they are too often cut down on here with no reason. They are working very hard to continue to bring you a quality product that we all love and enjoy.

The Current Show: I know that Peter is very proud of what they have accomplished on the new show! As I believe many of us would agree. When the new show comes to an end we shouldn't freak out, we can't expect it to last forever. It is no secret that there is a "feature" project with the new cartoon being premiered at Sandi Con by 4kids. This was discussed at their panel which I am sure you can find on the net.

The New Movie: This I can't say to much about other than they are talking about it, it would likely be a "hybrid" style shoot, and people are confident it may happen some day soon. In the world of movie making deals rest on dollars and contracts, as much as the Mirage crew wants to make something it can be put on hold by the powers that be. Though Peter seemed optamistic about it!

TMNT Longevity: Personally I think it is silly that people are worried about TMNT "going away" How can it go away any more than super man or batman can go away? Even if it sleeps for a while it will never disappear forever. From the perspective of some at Mirage taking a break can be a huge help to get those creative juices flowing again. When being so close to one specific property some times you need a little time to step back and take a breather, but in that case they will be back.

Lets cut them some slack, I think we are pretty lucky and have a vibrant and very alive franchise compared to pretty much all others of the same generation.

Thanks! Check for more updates on the doc at: www.turtledoc.com

I agree with all this. You are a TRUE TMNT fan! People forget to accept things for what they are.

Canadian Turtle · 02-16-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonardo19

I agree with all this. You are a TRUE TMNT fan! People forget to accept things for what they are.

Thanks bro! That means a lot to me!

You said it right there, my whole big point in way fewer words hahaha! Thanks!

*Buslady* · 02-16-2009, 11:39 AM

My #1 wish is that TMNT is treated like a adult level property, less retro more modern comic book look on merch.

My #2 wish is that they get the next issue of V4 out....I've all but forgotten the story.

There's no doubt they're working on a lot of projects, i just hope it's going in the right direction.

turkishproverb · 02-16-2009, 08:27 PM

Oh, I think many of them are trying, and I'm glad to hear this optimism for a change.

*CyberCubed* · 02-17-2009, 12:13 AM

I still don't get this thread. The only thing to be "optimistic" about is the comics, since there is some good stuff with trades, Tales, Forever war, and so forth coming. And we have the second wave of Neca figures finally coming out.

What else is there to be happy about? The cartoon ending pretty much means the death of TMNT in the mainstream media for who knows how many years. With no cartoon the Playmates toyline might as well end too and go on hiatus.

I don't get it, we're happy that TMNT is going back to being an obscure comic book series? Sure, I love the comics, but without a cartoon on the air, you might as well say TMNT is dead for the forseeable future.

TristanHuwJones · 02-17-2009, 01:20 AM

Then why not be optimistic about the comics? Someone said it over in another thread, with all the attention turning to the comics in the face of the show ending, maybe the franchise will be treated the way everyone seems to want it to be treated -- as a more adult brand more in touch with its true roots. We know that Imagi aren't going to be involved, so it's doubtful it will have too much to do with the 07 movie, and with the show ending, it's even more doubtful it'll resemble that. What does that leave, logically? New ground, or the comics.

*Roseangelo* · 02-17-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Then why not be optimistic about the comics? Someone said it over in another thread, with all the attention turning to the comics in the face of the show ending, maybe the franchise will be treated the way everyone seems to want it to be treated -- as a more adult brand more in touch with its true roots. We know that Imagi aren't going to be involved, so it's doubtful it will have too much to do with the 07 movie, and with the show ending, it's even more doubtful it'll resemble that. What does that leave, logically? New ground, or the comics.

There's nothing to be optimistic about in the comics. The book isn't in the top 300 overall and it's not even in the top 50 for independent books. Mirage isn't taking the comics any more serious than they have in the last 5 or so years; it just happens to be the only thing that doesn't have its graveyard dug just yet, but even that's just a matter of time. We still don't know whether or not the book will go into 2010 and the lack of sales doesn't speak for optimism in that regard. That's just how it is.

TristanHuwJones · 02-17-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

There's nothing to be optimistic about in the comics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

it just happens to be the only thing that doesn't have its graveyard dug just yet,

There's something right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

We still don't know whether or not the book will go into 2010 and the lack of sales doesn't speak for optimism in that regard. That's just how it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

The book isn't in the top 300 overall and it's not even in the top 50 for independent books.

The book is never decided on until about halfway through the year. All my pitches were made in June last year, after the decision was made to move ahead with the 09 season. A decision on 2010 won't be made until the same time. You know that nothing gets planned solidly beyond a year, and that's not just at Mirage, that's at Marvel, DC, and pretty much everywhere else.

Also, Tales has been selling at pretty much the same numbers since #10. It fluctuates between 2500 to 3000 units occasionally spiking at 3500. It actually sold its lowest at #9, managing only 1600 units. The other months that it doesn't appear on the sales lists cap the number 300 spot at roughly 3000 units, so chances are (and this is what Dan has told me as well) the book is selling anywhere between 2000-3000, usually averaging at 2500. The other thing is that more and more mid-range titles appear from the bigger companies, which push titles that have been selling the SAME number of units further down the scale. It doesn't mean they aren't selling, they just aren't making the top 300.

The sales HAVE dropped. I won't deny that and I never have, but it's only by a couple of hundred (Amazing Spiderman has seen sales drop by much more in years it's had movies!), and that fluctuates. There are still no sales data for this year either.

There is nothing wrong with people being optimistic. Just because they're optimistic, doesn't automatically make them naive or ignorant to what's going on. I'm pretty damn sure that everyone on this board, outside of a few newcomers, is aware of the state of things at the moment and I'm sure everyone is going to be disappointed (to varying extents) if things go the way of the dinosaur, but it all just comes down to outlook. Each to their own.

TwinbeeMkII · 02-17-2009, 05:31 AM

I'm glad some still have optimisum and hope these days. Granted things are lower then we like but I've seen franchises in worse shape survive and thrive because of it. Besides, if we the fans don't keep hope alive that there's a future, what's the point of the creatives to keep it up? We're the ones who have to show them there's still life left in the franchise. To do that we have to show them we have faith in them. Nice topic Canadian, and great input Tristan. Let's show Mirage we'll support this franchise till we're old and grey.

Lord Nightwalker · 02-17-2009, 07:21 AM

I am optimistic about the TMNT comics and property as a whole, As a long time fan I have to be. This anniversary could be big for things to turn around and snowball into something great. Unfortunately, it could snowball in the other direction as well. That's the reality of it. But hey, I'm a fan, and a dreamer. So I say find a way or make one.
If I had the ability and income, I'd do what ever I could to help the TMNT comics exist. All I can do is buy what I can, as I can. Which works out pretty well in the regard that I have nearly every issue. But I do not have the kind of money it takes to aid in the running of a company or I'd donate what I could. If the cease publication of the comics I will be quite upset.
I'll probably start sketching my own. Again.
As far as comic book properties go, and I do like quite a lot, TMNT and Batman are my absolute favorites.
If the book ends I will miss them.
At least until DC buys the rights.
Or something.

*Buslady* · 02-17-2009, 09:19 AM

Its also hard to be optimistic about the comics when the Pete says V4 will resume when all the 07 movie stuff was all over & done with. Here it is 09, ok so where's the book??

trustno1 · 02-17-2009, 09:26 AM

how is it hard? we still get tales of the tmnt every month. to be honest, it would not bother me at all if peter stopped volume 4, so long as tales kept going. he can finish volume 4 any time even in tales if he wanted to.

maybe you should ask him your exact question on his blog.

*Roseangelo* · 02-17-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

so chances are the book is selling anywhere between 2000-3000, usually averaging at 2500.

I have it on good authority that sales are much, MUCH lower than that.

*Andrew NDB* · 02-17-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Turtle

It is no secret that there is a "feature" project with the new cartoon being premiered at Sandi Con by 4kids. This was discussed at their panel which I am sure you can find on the net.

The TMNT-meets-TMNT thing for children? Should be fun for people into that sort of thing, or folks nostalgic for the old Fred Wolf cartoon. I couldn't care less.

Quote:

The New Movie: This I can't say to much about other than they are talking about it

To be fair, though, the hybrid factor intrigues me but I have no confidence it wouldn't be only be slightly less of a toddler/Playmates' toys pandering affair than the last movie was.

Not excited, and with all the dozens upon dozens of promising movie deals that came and fell apart to make TMNT Part 4 (to finally arrive at a pretty embarassing final movie) the odds just aren't in TMNT Part 5's favor... both the chance of it even getting made and the chance that it won't be forehead slappingly awful.

Quote:

TMNT Longevity: Personally I think it is silly that people are worried about TMNT "going away" How can it go away any more than super man or batman can go away?

Personally I think it is silly to compare TMNT to either Superman or Batman... for pretty obvious reasons.

It's not your fault by any means, of course, but nowhere in your post do you give any insight or hope about the TMNT comics... which is the last vestige of the franchise that even tries to appeal to people over the age of 10 (or old who can't let go of their childhoods... not that there's anything wrong with that).

I do agree that TMNT's longevity isn't in jeopardy. I'm far more concerned with TMNT's credibility in the long haul... so far all we're seeing is an endless, repeating cycle of catering to the lowest common denominator, then wondering why the little kids keep outgrowing it. Over and over again, all the while ignoring that the TMNT was never intended to be for little kids to begin with.

Sooner or later TMNT is going to run out of third, or fourth, or fifth chances. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

TristanHuwJones · 02-17-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I have it on good authority that sales are much, MUCH lower than that.

Well, good for you, I'm telling you what I was told by Dan at the end of last year. If I were to guess, then sales'd be around the 2000 mark at the end of last year, but I don't know, and there have still been a number of months in the past where sales have dipped further than that. Like I said, #9 MADE the top 300 at 1600 units, so the sales numbers fluctuate.

That's beside the point anyway. The point I was making is the outlook. Everyone is well aware of the reality of the brand, outside of a few newcomers. What does it matter to you if people are optimistic? As I said, everyone knows what's going on.

*Kendamu* · 02-17-2009, 01:42 PM

So an independent comic is selling less copies than Batman. We're supposed to be surprised?

*CyberCubed* · 02-17-2009, 01:45 PM

No cartoon = no way to get a new generation of kids interested in Turtles.

The idea is the cartoons introduce people to the franchise and then they might get into the comics. After all, isn't that how most of us discovered TMNT in the first place via the original cartoon?

How can we be optimistic without a cartoon?

02-16-2009, 11:39 AM	#6
Buslady WingsOfDarkness! Perkele! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In 7803... Posts: 4,366	My #1 wish is that TMNT is treated like a adult level property, less retro more modern comic book look on merch. My #2 wish is that they get the next issue of V4 out....I've all but forgotten the story. There's no doubt they're working on a lot of projects, i just hope it's going in the right direction. __________________

02-17-2009, 05:31 AM	#12
TwinbeeMkII Random Punk Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	I'm glad some still have optimisum and hope these days. Granted things are lower then we like but I've seen franchises in worse shape survive and thrive because of it. Besides, if we the fans don't keep hope alive that there's a future, what's the point of the creatives to keep it up? We're the ones who have to show them there's still life left in the franchise. To do that we have to show them we have faith in them. Nice topic Canadian, and great input Tristan. Let's show Mirage we'll support this franchise till we're old and grey. __________________ "Ah power...the only thing in life greater then toast."

02-17-2009, 09:19 AM	#14
Buslady WingsOfDarkness! Perkele! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In 7803... Posts: 4,366	Its also hard to be optimistic about the comics when the Pete says V4 will resume when all the 07 movie stuff was all over & done with. Here it is 09, ok so where's the book?? __________________

02-16-2009, 10:25 AM	#1
Canadian Turtle Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Small town Ontario, West of Toronto Posts: 1,257	Some insight from inside the TMNT World So as many of you know I am currently deep in production on the TMNT documentary project, I can say we are achieving much more than I thought we would be able to! The official TMNT community has been a major help so far! I can't thank them enough! I have seen a lot of threads on here about the "doom and gloom" of the franchise, talking about the ending of TMNT, if and when we get a movie, and so on. We, as you can imaging I spoke about such things with many of the people I was privileged enough to get to know. I can't say everything but I will say a few things. First off these people all deserve a lot more credit than we give them, they are too often cut down on here with no reason. They are working very hard to continue to bring you a quality product that we all love and enjoy. The Current Show: I know that Peter is very proud of what they have accomplished on the new show! As I believe many of us would agree. When the new show comes to an end we shouldn't freak out, we can't expect it to last forever. It is no secret that there is a "feature" project with the new cartoon being premiered at Sandi Con by 4kids. This was discussed at their panel which I am sure you can find on the net. The New Movie: This I can't say to much about other than they are talking about it, it would likely be a "hybrid" style shoot, and people are confident it may happen some day soon. In the world of movie making deals rest on dollars and contracts, as much as the Mirage crew wants to make something it can be put on hold by the powers that be. Though Peter seemed optamistic about it! TMNT Longevity: Personally I think it is silly that people are worried about TMNT "going away" How can it go away any more than super man or batman can go away? Even if it sleeps for a while it will never disappear forever. From the perspective of some at Mirage taking a break can be a huge help to get those creative juices flowing again. When being so close to one specific property some times you need a little time to step back and take a breather, but in that case they will be back. Lets cut them some slack, I think we are pretty lucky and have a vibrant and very alive franchise compared to pretty much all others of the same generation. Thanks! Check for more updates on the doc at: www.turtledoc.com __________________ The Doc: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turtl..._type=bookmark Business: www.iproductionsonline.com

02-16-2009, 10:38 AM	#2
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	Speaking of taking a breather, nice to get some optimistic fresh air in here!

02-16-2009, 10:46 AM	#3
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	If the TMNT cartoon ends, then TMNT is pretty much dead outside the comics. The cartoons are always what attracts kids to the franchise, and without a cartoon and a toyline to advertise it, TMNT might as well go back to being an obscure comic book franchise. Its actually pretty disappointing that no effort to renew the show for another season is being made by any of the three parties. Does Playmates actually expect their toys to continue to sell without a cartoon? Does 4kids not want to bank off merchandize success of the possible 5th movie with new eps of the cartoon? It really is troubling. Sure, we'll have the comics, but without a cartoon on the air the TMNT franchise is for the most part dead. Its a damn shame.

02-17-2009, 12:13 AM	#8
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	I still don't get this thread. The only thing to be "optimistic" about is the comics, since there is some good stuff with trades, Tales, Forever war, and so forth coming. And we have the second wave of Neca figures finally coming out. What else is there to be happy about? The cartoon ending pretty much means the death of TMNT in the mainstream media for who knows how many years. With no cartoon the Playmates toyline might as well end too and go on hiatus. I don't get it, we're happy that TMNT is going back to being an obscure comic book series? Sure, I love the comics, but without a cartoon on the air, you might as well say TMNT is dead for the forseeable future.

02-17-2009, 01:20 AM	#9
TristanHuwJones Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,419	Then why not be optimistic about the comics? Someone said it over in another thread, with all the attention turning to the comics in the face of the show ending, maybe the franchise will be treated the way everyone seems to want it to be treated -- as a more adult brand more in touch with its true roots. We know that Imagi aren't going to be involved, so it's doubtful it will have too much to do with the 07 movie, and with the show ending, it's even more doubtful it'll resemble that. What does that leave, logically? New ground, or the comics. __________________ Still alive (somehow)... tristansbones.bsky.social and instagram @ instagram.com/tristans_bones

02-17-2009, 07:21 AM	#13
Lord Nightwalker Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 698	I am optimistic about the TMNT comics and property as a whole, As a long time fan I have to be. This anniversary could be big for things to turn around and snowball into something great. Unfortunately, it could snowball in the other direction as well. That's the reality of it. But hey, I'm a fan, and a dreamer. So I say find a way or make one. If I had the ability and income, I'd do what ever I could to help the TMNT comics exist. All I can do is buy what I can, as I can. Which works out pretty well in the regard that I have nearly every issue. But I do not have the kind of money it takes to aid in the running of a company or I'd donate what I could. If the cease publication of the comics I will be quite upset. I'll probably start sketching my own. Again. As far as comic book properties go, and I do like quite a lot, TMNT and Batman are my absolute favorites. If the book ends I will miss them. At least until DC buys the rights. Or something.

02-17-2009, 09:26 AM	#15
trustno1 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 117	how is it hard? we still get tales of the tmnt every month. to be honest, it would not bother me at all if peter stopped volume 4, so long as tales kept going. he can finish volume 4 any time even in tales if he wanted to. maybe you should ask him your exact question on his blog.

02-17-2009, 01:42 PM	#19
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	So an independent comic is selling less copies than Batman. We're supposed to be surprised?

02-17-2009, 01:45 PM	#20
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	No cartoon = no way to get a new generation of kids interested in Turtles. The idea is the cartoons introduce people to the franchise and then they might get into the comics. After all, isn't that how most of us discovered TMNT in the first place via the original cartoon? How can we be optimistic without a cartoon?