Our Opinions Worthless

[Spitfire]

Interesting topic title no? I made this because I was thinking of something today that depresses me more about this buy out. Since turtles was always owned by a humble company that stuck close to the fan base they often listened to us. Maybe not when it came to some of the bigger things but they did go out of their way to please us when they could. Plus all the Mirage guys were super generous and very nice to us. We could e-mail Dan at any point and he'd respond not as the runner of some corporate website but as one of us.

With this buy out turtles will now be totally corporate. Anything we say will amount to nothing in their eyes. What pull we did have as fans means squat to them now. Years of devotion and business has worth. They have zero intention of pleasing us. They want to make new fans and those fans are children. One thing that I always loved about turtles was balance. The cartoon was for the kids and the comic was for the adults. If the toon failed to entertain me the comics always did. With that stuff gone I don't know what will keep my love for them alive. Unless they really manage to make a great series but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't know how that makes everyone else feel but it depresses me. Just thought I'd share that with you all.

[Cure]

The fans had no say in what happened with the turtles. I don't remember anyone saying they wanted Raph to be turned into whateverthehell and making the new movie suck and shrinking Don and screwing up the Turtles Forever thing, etc.

[The Shelf]

It is kinda depressing. The irony, though, is that a lot -- not all or even most, but a lot -- of fans blamed Laird for not handling TMNT better in recent years. Now he's burnt out, probably in part due to so many of these fans, and has given the property over to a big company that is at least capable of giving the fans what they want (whether that's what will happen or not); but now fans will probably blame Laird for selling to a company that doesn't listen to them, especially if that company ends up killing TMNT altogether in a few years if it's not successful.

Personally, I'm just happy that we're going to get another new take on TMNT. I'm also happy that Laird will have a little more time to work on Volume 4 now. The only real drawback I see is that TMNT may not survive now if Nick doesn't deem it successful, whereas we could always count on Mirage to keep it alive regardless since it was their own creation.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

The only real drawback I see is that TMNT may not survive now if Nick doesn't deem it successful, whereas we could always count on Mirage to keep it alive regardless since it was their own creation.

That's also a major concern of mine.

One great example I can think of where fans were listened to was when that horrid baby idea floated around. That didn't last two seconds, it was Laird approved, we had a big part in that getting canned. If Nick tries to pull something like that it would have to air, get ****** ratings, and then turtles will probably just get shelved for awhile.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

The only real drawback I see is that TMNT may not survive now if Nick doesn't deem it successful, whereas we could always count on Mirage to keep it alive regardless since it was their own creation.

That's my exact concern as well. This is NICK people... unless it's Spongebob or something on Nick Jr. they really don't give a crap about anything unless it's a complete success at the first sign.

Spongebob wasn't even buzzworthy until 2 years after the show was airing. You think they'd have that sort of patience nowadays?

The one thing we're all worried about is that if the show doesn't get good ratings, they'll hide it on Nicktoons for a year and then toss it in a pile and forget about it. It can happen. There will always be that possibility.

[Andrew NDB]

That's pretty far from the "only" drawback, but it's a definite reality.

And I hear you on what you're saying, Spitfire. There is no longer a human heart beating at the center of TMNT... only suits, committees, focus groups, and nervous beancounters in a rough economy.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

That's also a major concern of mine.

One great example I can think of where fans were listened to was when that horrid baby idea floated around. That didn't last two seconds, it was Laird approved, we had a big part in that getting canned.

No, fans had nothing to do with that. Peter approved it, but Playmates didn't. Murphy didn't post it on his blog until after it had been rejected and they were going back to the drawing board (to eventually come up with Back to the Sewer).

Honestly, fans have very rarely been listened to. The personal contact with the people at Mirage has certainly been wonderful and I would definitely call it a situation that is (was) unique to the Turtles, and I think that's what will be missed most. But I don't think that's exactly the same thing as being "listened to" in the overall scheme of things.

I think my favorite will always be the infamous Music Turtles incident. We told them the figures were crap, they told us we were stupid and gave us the proverbial finger, then they ... never released the figures.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And I hear you on what you're saying, Spitfire. There is no longer a human heart beating at the center of TMNT... only suits, committees, focus groups, and nervous beancounters in a rough economy.

Rough Economy suits it best. The pressure to make money is more important than ever... and if they don't get their investment back, we could be a VERy unhappy fanbase.

For a minute... forget the OT... forget the 2k3, the movies... forget all of that/

While it was under the decision of the co-creator, we lost an amazing independent comic success story and the soul behind it. And I'm guessing a lot of the fanbase are going to be swayed and buttered up by promises of Bebop and Rocksteady bumbling around and waving saying "Hey! Remember us?" All the while, the future is really uncertain. Even if things do turn out great, we lost a bit of comic book magic to corporate made in China Pixie dust. And that is the most disheartening of it all.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah I'll miss the way Dan and Murphy especially interacted with the fanbase. And of course Peter Laird.

But what can you do. Its going to be something we'll never get again. Nick reps don't communicate with fans.

[Leonardo19]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Yeah I'll miss the way Dan and Murphy especially interacted with the fanbase. And of course Peter Laird.

But what can you do. Its going to be something we'll never get again. Nick reps don't communicate with fans.

None of us can predict the future. For all we know the TMNT property will be sold again. If Nick runs it in the ground they may sell it for next to nothing. Who is to say PL won't buy it back in 10 years?? Im just saying we can't predict whats going to happen. just enjoy the ride.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Leonardo19

None of us can predict the future. For all we know the TMNT property will be sold again. If Nick runs it in the ground they may sell it for next to nothing. Who is to say PL won't buy it back in 10 years?? Im just saying we can't predict whats going to happen just enjoy the ride.

If anyone buys it again I hope it's Eastman.

[Canadian Turtle]

Hey maybe if we want to be heard, maybe this is time for us to start getting along????? I think there is a super strong fan base here! But not all of us agree on things which is totally natural, but can get annoying at times. But no one can ignore the voices of their audience, not if that voice is loud and well organized. For instance there was a petition at one point to get a special edition made for the first movie. I think there were like 2 or 3 hundred sigs on there.... thats not even close to enough to make a difference in the business world.

Just a thought.

[Peanut]

It was also an Internet petition. That alone gets nothing done.

And Mirage was no better at listening to fans than anyone else. Nick is going to do stupid sh*t and good sh*t, just like Mirage did.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Canadian Turtle

For instance there was a petition at one point to get a special edition made for the first movie. I think there were like 2 or 3 hundred sigs on there.... thats not even close to enough to make a difference in the business world.

That's the thing, though. Even when organized, TMNT fandom has little to no collective "voice." We just aren't that many in number. The TMNT franchise is a very small fish in a very big sea, despite how passionate the lot of us might be about it (particularly when we can manage to get along).

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Honestly, fans have very rarely been listened to. The personal contact with the people at Mirage has certainly been wonderful and I would definitely call it a situation that is (was) unique to the Turtles, and I think that's what will be missed most. But I don't think that's exactly the same thing as being "listened to" in the overall scheme of things.

True. True... there is a difference though. Then we weren't listened to because Peter was a stubborn controlling creator... now we won't be listened to because we're not the booger eating 6-9 year olds they clearly want to appeal to.

I think my favorite will always be the infamous Music Turtles incident. We told them the figures were crap, they told us we were stupid and gave us the proverbial finger, then they ... never released the figures.

Well... that and Playmates thought the safer bet was getting the Terminator Salvation license. Really. That was a smart move on their part. How did they perfectly predict it would be the hit of the summer?

Seriously, they couldn't give those damn things away.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

True. True... there is a difference though. Then we weren't listened to because Peter was a stubborn controlling creator...

I will never understand this mindset. I understand being a fan of something, and it meaning a lot to you on a personal level, but I think some people need to take a step back and realize that simply being a fan doesn't make you entitled to anything. Peter had a lot of things to consider, a lot of contracts and arrangements with various companies to uphold, so it's not as if he could have (or should have) just followed the whims of the "fandom". He had to do what he felt was best for the property and for himself.

And besides which, it was his property, so he was allowed to be as "stubborn" with it as he wanted to. The fact that he and the other Mirage folks had such open communication with the fans wasn't something they had to do, and they could have listened to the fans a hell of a lot less than they did.

And to be fair, Peter did a lot to at least try and please the Mirage fans in the last decade. We've gotten around 100 new comics since the Mirage relaunch in 2001, and have seen several classic Mirage storylines adapted in the 2003 cartoon, things that most of us never thought we'd see before Peter started building up the property again. Cut the man some slack.

[TerranigmaFreak]

Originally Posted by Bry

I will never understand this mindset. I understand being a fan of something, and it meaning a lot to you on a personal level, but I think some people need to take a step back and realize that simply being a fan doesn't make you entitled to anything. Peter had a lot of things to consider, a lot of contracts and arrangements with various companies to uphold, so it's not as if he could have (or should have) just followed the whims of the "fandom". He had to do what he felt was best for the property and for himself.

And besides which, it was his property, so he was allowed to be as "stubborn" with it as he wanted to. The fact that he and the other Mirage folks had such open communication with the fans wasn't something they were had to do, and they could have listened to the fans a hell of a lot less than they did.

And to be fair, Peter did a lot to at least try and please the Mirage fans in the last 6+ years. We've gotten around 100 new comics since the Mirage relaunch, and have seen several classic Mirage storylines adapted in the 2003 cartoon, things that most of us never thought we'd see before Peter started building up the property again. Cut the man some slack.

B-b-but Peter Laird raped our childhoods, skinned our pets, shot our local congressman, and crapped in our mouths!

All sarcasm aside, I agree with Bry 100%. This Nick deal should really put people into perspective of just how good they had it for the last 6+ years. I think he would be a lousy creator if all he did was listen to fans. It wouldn't be his creation without his ideas. He did try to please some fans and easily gave us one of the best incarnations of the TMNT on TV. Fans are so ungrateful. You won't be happy until the title is changed to Fanboy and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

I hope Nick brings back Ninja Turtles The Next Mutation.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

If anyone buys it again I hope it's Eastman.

He's too busy warring with The Amazing Rando.

Originally Posted by TheCure

The fans had no say in what happened with the turtles. I don't remember anyone saying they wanted Raph to be turned into whateverthehell and making the new movie suck and shrinking Don and screwing up the Turtles Forever thing, etc.

Rather than enjoy any status quoe shake-ups (like Raph's mutation and Don's experiance, April being a drawing, Leonardo in the Battle Nexus), all th ungrateful turds-for-fans just bitched and moaned about trivial things, blasted Laird, blasted Lawson, and never, not ONCE, appreciated what they had.

This is karma. And it's long overdue.

[TerranigmaFreak]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

not ONCE, appreciated what they had.

This is karma. And it's long overdue.

Well, people are finally starting to appreciate what they had, but it's too late now. I always felt bad reading all the silly complaints from fans, that's why I'm not very active in the TMNT community. People were down right vicious.

I bet Pete just got fed up, threw his arms up and said screw it. There's a cool 60 million and a lot less headache.

Chances are, come 2012, everyone will begin to rediscover and appreciate all the great stuff from 9 years ago and wonder why we don't get stuff half as good.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Rather than enjoy any status quoe shake-ups (like Raph's mutation and Don's experiance, April being a drawing, Leonardo in the Battle Nexus), all th ungrateful turds-for-fans just bitched and moaned about trivial things, blasted Laird, blasted Lawson, and never, not ONCE, appreciated what they had.

This is karma. And it's long overdue.

No, I get you, homie. I was just saying that saying the fans are not listened to NOW as opposed to before is baffling.