Image Discussion Thread

[Venom]

As I've mentioned in other places, I recently acquired most of the Image run (sorry, no point telling where they came from since it was the last issues they had in stock) and I would like a place to discuss things in the books as I go through them.

Since I'm making this thread I may just go ahead and re-read my other issues if anyone would like to start from the beginning, but probably I'll pop in with thoughts and reactions to the issues as I go.

So far I'm really impressed with the Image run. It was a shame it didn't continue longer than it did, but I noticed in #11 that Erik said Kevin and Pete were already shelling out money to keep the book going due to low sales.

The artwork improved steadily and I find myself loving the dynamic nature of the stories and the characterization Gary gave each Turtle. I read somewhere that they hadn't really read the Mirage run but he did a great job of capturing the guys' essence and made good use of dropping continuity hints like mentioning Zog when the Mike pulled out the the aircar.

[CyberCubed]

One thing I found odd is in Image when Raph sees Shredder's armor for the first time, he also sees a whole bunch of other Shredder armor lined up.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Shredder having a whole collection of different armor, it made him seem too supervillain-ish.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

One thing I found odd is in Image when Raph sees Shredder's armor for the first time, he also sees a whole bunch of other Shredder armor lined up.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Shredder having a whole collection of different armor, it made him seem too supervillain-ish.

The point was that Shredder's armor had evolved over time as he tweeked his "evil look."

[Venom]

Yeah; I wished the costume had kept the hand blades, or had them integrated into the gauntlets like the 2k3 Saki figure. I really liked the serrated gauntlets though, and suppose it was more fitting since Raph is more of a slugger anyway lol!

[ToTheNines]

One thing that will make me love the Image run forever and ever is its portrayl of the Mafia.

Not that it was groundbreaking or anything, but as a Mafia movie buff I really hate seeing them used in every single other TMNT universe because they always screw it up. Obviously the OT was goofy, but they actually did a good job at keeping them all Italian while the NT had several black, blonde and red-headed mobsters.

[Venom]

Well mobsters can be multi-ethnic, but never get far up; the Mafia is Italian and only initiates those of Italian heritage, which is why Capone could never be a member of the Mafia and built his own mob. The terms are interchangeable in todays culture but from what I remember, Mafia meant the Italians and mob was a general term used for other organized crime groups not of Italian descent.

Anyway I digress.

I really dig the use of the Mafia in the Image run too. The Turtles are at their best grounded on Earth and surrounded by criminals in the city. If they get taken to space, put space crooks around them to make it work lol! The mafia was a nice transition from the Foot, too, and gave a more well-rounded feel to the criminal underworld of the Turtles universe.

[CyberCubed]

The mob storyline was good because it continued from Gabrielle/Shadow's past. If it didn't, I don't think I would have cared about it as much.

Getting to know who impregnated Gabrielle in the first place was a brilliant move, especially with them being gangsters.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Venom

Well mobsters can be multi-ethnic, but never get far up; the Mafia is Italian and only initiates those of Italian heritage, which is why Capone could never be a member of the Mafia and built his own mob. The terms are interchangeable in todays culture but from what I remember, Mafia meant the Italians and mob was a general term used for other organized crime groups not of Italian descent.

Actually Capone was Italian, he just wasn't a Sicilian.

And even the Sicilian Mafia has alot of non-italian associates (see Jimmy and Henry from Goodfellas) but in the NT they made it look like the whole organization was pro-affirmative action. Really not a big deal, just annoys me as a fan of that kinda stuff.

[Andrew NDB]

A recent phone conversation with Frank tipped me off to something funny I'll share with you guys.

Look at #18's cover for Mulder and Scully. Yes, that Mulder and Scully. He said that he'd only seen X-Files on TV once and in it, "it seemed like Mulder and Scully were talkin' to each other over their cellphones all the time." So he drew them both on the cover, standing next to each other, talking to each other on their cellphones. There's also a guy on it doing the MIB-inspired memory flash on it.

Cool things I never noticed.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Interesting clarification

Oh yeah, I forgot the Sicilian part. *headsmacks* lol! I love Mafia stuff, so intriguing that there is a whole world of shady dealings running parallel to ours.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

A recent phone conversation with Frank tipped me off to something funny I'll share with you guys.

Look at #18's cover for Mulder and Scully. Yes, that Mulder and Scully. He said that he'd only seen X-Files on TV once and in it, "it seemed like Mulder and Scully were talkin' to each other over their cellphones all the time." So he drew them both on the cover, standing next to each other, talking to each other on their cellphones. There's also a guy on it doing the MIB-inspired memory flash on it.

Cool things I never noticed.

*Checks cover*

Oh man, that is kick ass!

[ToTheNines]

One good thing to discuss would be how well Image fits in with Mirage continuity.

Overall it fits nicely, but I noticed a contradiction today. In #17, Leo says the last they saw of Leatherhead was when his tranmat blew up in Volume 1 #45, but there were two LH issues right after that in Tales volume 2.

I know Volume 4 sits quite well with the Image run, but can you guys think of anymore issues from Tales that step on Volume 3's toes?

[Venom]

Not to sidestep your questions, ToTheNines, but I read through #'s 11 and 13 today.

Seeing Sara literally jumping Mikey was pretty cool, and Mikey was feeling rather proud of himself after that lol! What is she suppose to be, though? I'm missing #10 and #12 so I'm not sure if her appearance is explained there but is she a mutant? Her head is like a praying mantis and her body is, well, not. O_o

I really enjoyed Mark Heinke's inks on #13!! Really brought the book to life, and some pages were reminiscent of Dooney's inking style with the heavy lines and bold shadowing. Doesn't mean I dislike Andrew Pepoy's inks, that's further from the truth.

The scene's with Raph mowing down Tony's men with a tommy gun was pure awesomeness!! As much as I love his sais, Raph packing firepower just feels right.

I also liked Saki's inner sanctum; it was a nice addition to an already mysterious figure that managed to add much depth to him without ever saying a word. Visualizing Saki going into his chamber, not to be disturbed, for some quiet time to think and smelting some iron to forge a new weapon or craft the newest form of his armors evolution as a form of solace was intriguing in that it bathes him in a shade of gray never been seen.

The way Gary handled Saki in Big Bang #10 and the few flittering moments we see/recall him in Volume 3 are some of the best moments in all Turtle continuity in regards to his character.

[DrSpengler]

Sara/Horridus is an alien. Her mother was a human, abducted by aliens and inseminated with Sara. Her mother died while giving birth and her father kept her locked in a basement with a TV until she was a teenager (hence why she's so socially awkward and always watching TV whenever we see her).

Mikey first met her very briefly in the second TMNT/Savage Dragon crossover (Savage Dragon #22).

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Overall it fits nicely, but I noticed a contradiction today. In #17, Leo says the last they saw of Leatherhead was when his tranmat blew up in Volume 1 #45, but there were two LH issues right after that in Tales volume 2.

Yeah, that's the only real sore thumb I could find myself. Now, Leatherhead's reaction can be explained... he has a well documented terrible memory.

But there's worse contradictions to be found within the actual Mirage books themselves.

[DrSpengler]

Well, if one were to go for a No-Prize, you could say that TMNT #45 and the two Tales issues were part of a trilogy of a stories; a storyline with all the events taking place in rapid succession. So Leo was just grouping the entire events together when he mentioned the Transmat incident.

Of course...not bringing up the Leatherhead clones and all that would be sorta weird, but, well, you know. No-Prize and all.

[Venom]

Another thing that really interests me that seems to be lost to history: reading through the letters pages of those old comics, the vast majority of those who wrote in loved the book and couldn't praise Gary and Frank enough for their take on the Turtles and the way the story was developing.

I'm really glad I was able to get these issues, because back in '96 after my inital shock of seeing Don splattered on the asphalt and Raph playing Two-Face, the other three issues I were able to find locally I remember really loving a lot before the series was cancelled. I remember checking the new synopsis on Mirage's site every time a new one came out and lurking the TMNT mailing list and reading people's reactions.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But there's worse contradictions to be found within the actual Mirage books themselves.

No doubt there... Even if you take Image out of the equation, Mirage fu*ks up Shadow's (apparrent) age, intellegence level and hair color nicely.

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Of course...not bringing up the Leatherhead clones and all that would be sorta weird, but, well, you know. No-Prize and all.

I can dig it.

[CyberCubed]

The other thing is when Leo or Mike talks about alligators in the sewers being silly, (this is when the Komodo lizard was killing victims), Leo apparently has memory loss of Leatherhead. It goes something like:

Leo: But who ever heard of alligators being in the sewers?
Splinter: Oh, I seem to recall one.
Mike: That's right, Leo, what about Leatherhead?
Leo: Damn, I forgot about him!

As if Leonardo would really forget about Leatherhead.

[ToTheNines]

The turtle's got alot on his mind lol

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The other thing is when Leo or Mike talks about alligators in the sewers being silly, (this is when the Komodo lizard was killing victims), Leo apparently has memory loss of Leatherhead. It goes something like:

Leo: But who ever heard of alligators being in the sewers?
Splinter: Oh, I seem to recall one.
Mike: That's right, Leo, what about Leatherhead?
Leo: Damn, I forgot about him!

As if Leonardo would really forget about Leatherhead.

To be fair, it's kind of like, if you're out hunting reptiles in Ghana and you see some animal footprints on the ground and someone says, "These footprints look mammalian!" And someone says, "But there's no mammals here!" And a third guy says, "Yes there is... we're humans, aren't we? Yuck-yuck."

My point is that Leo wasn't thinking in terms of the giant talking kind of alligators.

The odd part there, though, is that in Big Bang Comics #10 we do see the Turtles hunting alligators in the sewers as youngsters.