Smack Down vs Raw Series Improvment

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Stryker

The series can be improved but none of it has to do with presentation and match types.

If they added in-ring mechanics from JP wrestling games like Fire Pro and King of Colosseum 2 it would be perfect. A better reversal system would also be good. Adding stupid 'hardcore' gimmicks is the last thing they need to work on.

Adding what stupid gimmick? Just because I want an off the wall wrestling game doesn't mean it's stupid. Being hardcore is better, allowing you to do more moves and interact with the environment is not good for you? For God's sake, they don't let you go backstage or fight in the crowd, get on the barricade, or even feel in control when your playing. I miss when they let you preform the move all by yourself, instead of seeing animations by pressing a little bit of buttons.

[The Stryker]

Care to elaborate just what game you're talking about? No game has been super detailed that you control moves like what you're describing, It's always been grapple A, B or C with a directional press for the most part.

I get a lot more out of being able to put on exciting realistic matches than being able to do crazy things. King of Colosseum 2 is the best wrestling game ever made in my opinion and that just had Tag team and triple threat as their big gimmick matches. No weapons or anything, just perfect in-ring gameplay.

I suggest you seek out one of the old ECW games so you can partake in a LAVA match.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Care to elaborate just what game you're talking about? No game has been super detailed that you control moves like what you're describing, It's always been grapple A, B or C with a directional press for the most part.

I get a lot more out of being able to put on exciting realistic matches than being able to do crazy things. King of Colosseum 2 is the best wrestling game ever made in my opinion and that just had Tag team and triple threat as their big gimmick matches. No weapons or anything, just perfect in-ring gameplay.

I suggest you seek out one of the old ECW games so you can partake in a LAVA match.

In No Mercy you had to pull off the People's Elbow by yourself and not by seeing an animation, you had to set up double teams with your partner and not just grab the same guy and plenty more.

Smack Down vs Raw 2010 needed more match types. It felt kinda empty. I want a 1 on 3 match without it being a tag, or a 1 on four, along with 4 on 4. I want the inferno match to be more interesting. It'll also be cool to let you set up a chair normal and let you run and jump off it and preform moves with it. I just want it to let you access fun backstage areas in anywhere falls and hardcore/extreme rules matches while having access to the ring to begin with, instead of having to pick and play in a bogus little area. I just want the game to let you react to and use the environment much better. I also thought of a cool way to let you fight in the audience, where ever your character is taking the fight, the audience should move out of your way to give you room where your walking.

And I did have a ECW game, it was on the N64, I forgot what it was called. I really didn't like it, I preferred Wrestlemania 2000 and No Mercy. Even today those games are still fun. But I'm going to check out that lava match your talking about on youtube.

[The Stryker]

Please play the good wrestling games. It's not all about the hardcore stuff, most of the time it's super tacked on and lame.

Fire Pro Wrestling (Any version), King of Colosseum 2 and Wrestle Kingdom 2.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Please play the good wrestling games. It's not all about the hardcore stuff, most of the time it's super tacked on and lame.

Fire Pro Wrestling (Any version), King of Colosseum 2 and Wrestle Kingdom 2.

I've owned Wrestlemania 2000, No Mercy, Day of Reckoning 1 and 2, Raw 1 and 2, Wrestlemania 18-21, and of course the entire Smack Down series including the SvR series.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by Turo602

I've owned Wrestlemania 2000, No Mercy, Day of Reckoning 1 and 2, Raw 1 and 2, Wrestlemania 18-21, and of course the entire Smack Down series including the SvR series.

And FPR by itself is better than all of those. Mania 21? GROSS.

[jeff the cheff]

I haven't played wrestling video games in a long time, but I'll just say that sometimes, less is more.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Stryker

And FPR by itself is better than all of those. Mania 21? GROSS.

I know I was disappointed about the XBOX games myself. And damn how good is this fire pro? My brother thought of getting it once but then decided not to. But I still think No Mercy is like one of the best wrestling games of all time. And you know what's more gross then 21, War Zone, yuck.

[Peanut]

No. Warzone was so much better, for its time, than WM21 was. Don't be insane.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Peanut

No. Warzone was so much better, for its time, than WM21 was. Don't be insane.

War Zone was really terrible, even for it's time. Smack Down was way more better. 21 was better for it's time even though it sucked.

[Peanut]

No. This shows you're a child who has no f*cking idea what you're talking about and constantly spew sh*t out of your ass. How f*cking old were you when Warzone came out? Like 3? So how in the hell do you know how good War Zone was when it first came out? You don't. And Smackdown couldn't be "way more better" than War Zone for its time because they were released YEARS APART!

How old were you even when Wrestlemania 21 came out? 10 or something? Do you know how many horrible problems that piece of junk had?

You have NO IDEA what you're talking about, kid. At one point, I thought you weren't so bad, a little naive and full of teenage arrogance, but now you're proving you're just a liar.

[TheCanadiandrome]

i'd kinda like to see a return to the old-school. borrow eliments from No Mercy and games like Attitude and War Zone (sorry Turo602 you're in the minority, that game was good!)

i hate the newer control schemes of the recent games. too much reliability on the stupid analog sticks. some of us can't pull off moves with that scheme. at least give more of a control scheme customization.

and since there looks like no "Legends of Wrestlemania" sequel, a little more inclusion of 'Legends' would be sweet. maybe a Legends RTWM or other story eliment

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Peanut

No. This shows you're a child who has no f*cking idea what you're talking about and constantly spew sh*t out of your ass. How f*cking old were you when Warzone came out? Like 3? So how in the hell do you know how good War Zone was when it first came out? You don't. And Smackdown couldn't be "way more better" than War Zone for its time because they were released YEARS APART!

How old were you even when Wrestlemania 21 came out? 10 or something? Do you know how many horrible problems that piece of junk had?

You have NO IDEA what you're talking about, kid. At one point, I thought you weren't so bad, a little naive and full of teenage arrogance, but now you're proving you're just a liar.

Even if I where older during that time I wouldn't play it. I know when a game sucks and I don't keep suck games. I'm not defending W21, I got rid of that game for a reason. But Warzone was crap, 21 was crap, Smackdown 1 and 2 where crap. 2000 and No Mercy where better then that. We could all just agree they all suck badly.

[Peanut]

You're such a tool. Damn. I'm not even going to bother feeling bad whenever everyone rages on you anymore.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Originally Posted by Turo602

Even if I where older during that time I wouldn't play it. I know when a game sucks and I don't keep suck games. I'm not defending W21, I got rid of that game for a reason. But Warzone was crap, 21 was crap, Smackdown 1 and 2 where crap. 2000 and No Mercy where better then that. We could all just agree they all suck badly.

no we couldn't do that! lol!

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Peanut

You're such a tool. Damn. I'm not even going to bother feeling bad whenever everyone rages on you anymore.

Sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

I don't care as I could recall your one of those people.

[Sergio517]

Originally Posted by Stryker

If that site had anything other than links to IGN videos. I might be able to find something about that. Hacking a game and using CAW slots to import characters from past games doesn't really count.

That is completely false so I must say something. You can not replace a CAW slot with a Superstar Character. It's just not the same as replacing a superstar slot with another superstar slot because you can't expect to put The Rock in CAW slot 1 and then go edit him in CAW mode.

Firstly, SvR 2010 has over 115 empty character slots, not including an empty slot for Howard Finkel, Vickie Guerrero, and some others. These characters were most likely to be included in the game but were removed. Whether their game model was ever complete is unknown, but they had character slots with names added. All empty character slots are represented with a generic superstar silhouette image, stats, and moves. Selecting these characters in a match causes the game to freeze because there is no actual character model to load into the match.

Surprisingly SvR 2009 and SvR 2010 are the only games I know to have a ton of empty character slots. SvR 2008 and before had only about 10 - 20 empty slots because whenever a superstar quit or was fired and was not included in the next SvR game, their model slot would remain in the same order as the previous game, but their model would be removed. As it stands, The Rock is always the first character slot in the list of superstars in a SmackDown game. When he was not included in SvR 2009, his character slot was still there and was still the first one in the list, but it had no model, making his slot empty.

Anyway, since there are so many slots, I feel and agree with Turo that THQ/Yukes can add a lot more characters to the game. I would love a full roster of current wrestlers and divas as well as a lot of cool old school wrestlers.

[Leo656]

God, I could debate wrestling games for years.

I'm currently playing No Mercy for the first time in a while, and I gotta say I think that type of game has aged really, really well. The engine itself was almost perfect. I actually kind of preferred the Gamecube games over the SmackDown series (WMX8 excluded, but that was only a first try on the system) in most respects, because the gameplay was almost exactly like the No Mercy engine. The only things SD had better was more detailed CAW with more roster slots, slightly better graphics, and a few more match options.

I agree with Stryker that the main campaign in WM XIX was weak. It would have been "just fine" as its own mode, but as the main game feature it was pretty lame. The only thing I didn't love about that game, though.

I also agree Fire Pro owns over just about anything, but it just isn't right for a mainstream wrestling game, imho. The learning curve is too steep for party play and the graphics whores can't get over the fact that it's 2D. They could probably do a 3D style game that uses the same basic engine, but I'm not sure it'd go over. I dunno how many Fire Pro for PS2 sold but I'd be willing to bet it didn't move a ton of units. Which doesn't detract from it as an amazing game (the fact that it has hundreds of CAW slots alone makes me wet), just that it doesn't cater to the mainstream like a WWE game needs to.

I also disagree that Legends have no place in the newer games. I haven't played 2010 yet, but I thought the overall rosters for SDvsRaw 2008/09 were pretty weak. Everything else was fine, but the rosters... ugh. Be real: Nobody genuinely wants to play as Cryme Tyme or Chavo. Of course they should be in the game, b/c everyone on TV a lot should be in that year's game, but most of us get bored playing as Punk and Jericho all the time. Beyond that, a lot of fans just plain old like the newer games but prefer the older generation of wrestlers. I love making CAWS and am pretty good at it (also not ashamed to borrow someone's formula if I need someone to be "perfect"), but I just don't have time anymore to give it the attention it needs. Most of the people I make are split 50/50 between Legends and people from other feds, and I'm sick of making people like Bret and Piper over and over again.

I'm sure it wouldn't kill them to add another "roster" for Legends to the game, especially now that ECW is gone. Just put about 15-20 Legends in and everyone would be happy without taking anyone "more deserving" out. People like Hogan, Piper, Bret, Undertaker, Austin etc. deserve to be in every WWE game and people want to play as them. If they did in fact have to cut people off the main roster to make room, well, anyone you have to think for more than 5 seconds, "should they be in it?" probably shouldn't be.

They could also make Legends strictly DLC, that could work.

I hated the first SmackDown game, so I'm amazed how far they've improved so far, but I'd still make some changes, mostly by borrowing things from other WWE games.
-Gameplay would let you choose between a standard SDvsRaw analog control style, or a more basic Day or Reckoning style.

-CAW would keep SD's layering system and graphics textures, while discarding the millions of useless patterns and outfits, while adding outfits and patterns from Day of Reckoning/Legends of Wrestlemania (i.e., they'd have outfits people actually have worn instead of 100 layers of tie-dye).

-Day of Reckoning's Create-An-Entrance, to replace SD's crappy one. DoR had much better camera settings and way more poses to choose from. And better entrance props. JEFF JARRETT NEEDS HIS GUITAR, DAMMIT!

-Bring back fighting in the crowd from a couple SD's ago, keep all the environmental grapples and the weapons system.

-Have a few main modes that can use either an in-game character or a CAW. Road to WM in 09 was fun, but really limited b/c you could only use an in-game character due to the whole voice/script thing. Storylines should have as many branching paths as possible, with options to turn face/heel or form a stable whenever. Think PS2 SD games.

-I wouldn't hate seeing GM mode again. There's gotta be a way to integrate a GM mode into a Season/Story mode like a sports game and make it fun.

-Add a "passed out" state for characters who've taken too much of a beating, like in No Mercy. It would make those multi-man Money in the Bank matches a little bit easier and less frustrating if guys didn't just pop right up no matter how tired/hurt they were.

-If they aren't going to do another Legends game, I'd like to see a mode where you unlock things by re-enacting classic or famous matches.

-Legends, somehow.

-The ability to assign multiple finishers based on ring location, just like No Mercy/Day of Reckoning. I think it was DoR1 where you could have as many as 10 finishers (front, back, running, top rope standing, top rope laying, TB front, TB back, Irish whip, head submit/feet submit) and a Super move (by saving all your finisher icons and using them at once). That was bad-ass. Having only a couple in SD sucks.

-Ability to steal finishers, not just as a learned skill.

-They need to go back to the old way of assigning CAW stats. 09 in particular was brutal. When you make like a billion people, having to run them ALL through career to get their stats/abilities perfect is a chore to say the least. I like the abilities that you get based on match performance, but they still gotta tweak it a bit.

It's nice to wish, ain't it? I know that's a lot of things I'd change, but most of the time when I'm playing older games with Mary we run into something that makes us say "Y'know, SD would be better if they had this."

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's nice to wish, ain't it? I know that's a lot of things I'd change, but most of the time when I'm playing older games with Mary we run into something that makes us say "Y'know, SD would be better if they had this."

That's how I feel.

And dude I agree with you, that's like the things I wanted. Taking the good things from past games and combining them to a huge awesome game. The main parts that needs fixing is roster, caw mode, match types, and gameplay. It would be cool to let you interact with more of the environment when playing matches. And yeah sometimes the roster gets boring, that's why I want plenty more divas, legends, and current people. I would also like the alternate gears for every wrestler thing again. And story mode would be kinda cool to have RPG style like in the DS. Having your wrestler and having him/her interact with other people backstage, and train to increase your stats for story mode.

And dude, No Mercy is awesome, even til this day it's still fun.

[TheCanadiandrome]

yeah it'll be interesting to see if the developers listen to some of the fan ideas. as they claim to do.