If the new movie was the OT in live action?

[Koi]

Originally Posted by Dragon Turtle

If there is anything that movies such as Transformers and G.I. Joe have taught us is that, the the general public could care less about the source of the content of the movie, just as long as something blows up.

The old toon had explosions... So did the comics, and as well the more recent ones.

My guess is that it will have a good focus on the newer toon and comic to tell you the truth. It is usually focused on the newest viewers. Which makes me sad, for I adored the 90's toon ten times more then the more recent shows.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

If you believe that the scant number of parodic elements in its inception were the crux of the TMNT then you probably shouldn't be a fan.

Eastman and Laird have both said it wasn't a parody. I'm going with them.

I respect you a lot. You're one of my favorite people to read posts from around here and you're doing a lot for TMNT comic fans like myself right now. However, I think that's a bit harsh.

One of the big draws for me when it comes to TMNT is how ridiculous it is and how it homages and parodies other popular elements of comics. Whether it's the Daredevil knockoff stuff, the idea of Turtles being Ninja in the first place, the cheesy epic Ninja battles, or even those alternate universe Superhero Turtles that look like they should be hanging out with the Superfriends, part of what makes the TMNT comics so cool is that it has a nice mix of homage/parody humor or it has a bit of a "so serious that it's funny" sort of gritty atmosphere that's way too realistic for the premise itself.

As much as Eastman and Laird say, "It's not a parody. It's not a joke. This is serious business," I can't quite completely believe that. Sure, I can definitely see that it's gotten more serious over time as fans started to take the characters more seriously, but even in the worst-case scenario (like recovering from the nice Christmas Eve ambush that revealed that the Shredder was still alive) you end up getting a story like "The Unmentionables" right in the middle of it all. Noir detective hockey mask Casey in a small town where nothing ever happens chasing after some cow statue with a bunch of turtles in a story named after a word that references underwear.

Hell, the very concept of Casey Jones (a masked vigilante popping out of the shadows to beat up crooks like he's Batman or something) is funny as can be and I love it! It's part of why he's my favorite character and I haven't seen anything so cool and funny since then until Mark Millar started publishing Kick-Ass.

Or maybe one of my all-time favorites: Shell of the Dragon. An obvious Bruce Lee homage with parody elements to it and a kooky enough villain back-story involving the huge beast of a warrior having irrational and brutal fits of rage whenever he sees a turtle... and all of the trouble that brought such a guy into the story was over a small-time independent Chinese restaurant that could never compete with corporate Chinese food found almost everywhere was being attacked because everything's made from scratch.

Another all-time favorite of mine is TMNT Vol. 1 #41. The one about the Turtles' dreams. Sure, it's probably not canon, but it could fit anywhere. They're just napping or something. That was part of the Vol. 1 hardcore B&W old days of Turtles and it was a very kooky and funny story. Probably the only one mentioned so far not involving Eastman or Laird, either.

Finally, there's Bodycount. When seen from my "I like the humor" perspective, this is probably one of the funniest stories I've ever read and I'm pretty sure you understand why I would think so.

Those kinds of stories, those kinds of elements being put into the serious stuff, or the serious stuff being so epic that it's cheesy (in that cool martial arts movie sort of way) are why I'm a fan. Another reason I'm a fan, though, is because you and I can see the same stories in a completely different light and still enjoy them equally. You focus more on the serious business and I focus more on the humor, but they're both there and I love it! I just hate that even Eastman and Laird seem to be downplaying the less serious elements when asked about it. I know that it's not a straight-up parody. Even if it were at one point, it grew out of that early on. I just like that the stories blended "laughing at yourself" humor with serious business so well in the Frank Millar/Alan Moore era that parented the "X-TREME 90s COMIX GGRRAAHHH" stuff.

It really kinda hurts me as a fan when people try and downplay the humor in the comics. I know you're a hardass about it and all, and I appreciate that because it gets the ball rolling in potentially great ways (like the Vol. 3 conclusion), but I'm the guy who likes the funny stuff or sees the funny side to the serious moments and I'm just as much a legit fan of the comics as you are.

[Andrew NDB]

Where did the idea come from that I'm against humor in the TMNT? I love humor in the TMNT. It's an instrumental part of their "draw." I just prefer there to be a sense of balance about it and not an oversaturation of it such as there is in the films and children's cartoons... that's all.

I dunno, I just feel like I should be able to watch more than 2 minutes of a TMNT movie without being beaten over the head by a Three Stooges impression, or someone clowning around with a funny coo-coo sound effect dubbed in. Maybe it's just me.

"It's not a parody. It's not a joke. This is serious business,"

They've never said that. They acknowledge the parodic elements... but the parodic elements do not define it.

[Kendamu]

That's the difference between me and you. I feel like, since there's a balance, that the parodic elements can define it as much as the serious elements can. I'm not a, "Oh yeah, the humor is there, but that's not what it's about," kind of guy. Looking at the examples I brought up, I'm also not the type who thinks the Three Stooges elements are what the humor in TMNT should be.

Even if I take the OT as an example, just look at the first little bit of the first episode where April is reporting on the crime in the city. It's not a series of intentional wisecracks on the characters' parts. They're all acting dead serious about what they're saying, but what's being said is just goofy and off-the-wall in that Naked Gun kind of way. That's the OT humor that I like.

Or maybe the TMNT manga. I love that stuff! It sets up a plot where the Turtles get way in over their heads and it looks like the Shredder is about to win, but the entire short story's just actually been a set-up for the punchline of when things go horribly wrong in an otherwise flawless plan. Kind of a "Murphy's Law" thing taken to very funny lengths.

I didn't mean to imply that you don't like the humor. Sorry I came off that way. Part of what I said ended up being responses to what I've read from a lot of TMNT comic fans (or at least a few very loud ones) over a long period of time and I got into a long-winded rant involving things that weren't necessarily about you personally.

I just had a lot to get off my chest as a guy who loves, amongst other things, subtle comedy and parodic elements sprinkled throughout otherwise serious stories that can be taken seriously.

EDIT: One big example that I know you're into the humor as well is your very apparent feelings toward "Dawn of the Ninja."

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

That's the difference between me and you. I feel like, since there's a balance, that the parodic elements can define it as much as the serious elements can.

I guess you can do whatever you want. I just think defining it by something both creators are saying shouldn't define it seems dodgy to me at best.

I'm not a, "Oh yeah, the humor is there, but that's not what it's about," kind of guy.

So in your book... it's about the humor? We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Looking at the examples I brought up, I'm also not the type who thinks the Three Stooges elements are what the humor in TMNT should be.

Yeah.

Even if I take the OT as an example, just look at the first little bit of the first episode where April is reporting on the crime in the city. It's not a series of intentional wisecracks on the characters' parts. They're all acting dead serious about what they're saying, but what's being said is just goofy and off-the-wall in that Naked Gun kind of way. That's the OT humor that I like.

I respect self-aware/almost fourth wall-breaking humor like that. I just don't like it in the Turtleverse.

But children's cartoons? They can make it as goofy and silly as they want. Go all out, I'll completely support it (from afar... way afar).

Or maybe the TMNT manga. I love that stuff! It sets up a plot where the Turtles get way in over their heads and it looks like the Shredder is about to win, but the entire short story's just actually been a set-up for the punchline of when things go horribly wrong in an otherwise flawless plan. Kind of a "Murphy's Law" thing taken to very funny lengths.

What can I say. Gotta love Japan.

I didn't mean to imply that you don't like the humor. Sorry I came off that way. Part of what I said ended up being responses to what I've read from a lot of TMNT comic fans (or at least a few very loud ones) over a long period of time and I got into a long-winded rant involving things that weren't necessarily about you personally.

I can respect that.

I just had a lot to get off my chest as a guy who loves, amongst other things, subtle comedy and parodic elements sprinkled throughout otherwise serious stories that can be taken seriously.

Oh, I love subtle comedy... though the kinds of nonsense I'm talking about/arguing against, there ain't nothing subtle about it.

EDIT: One big example that I know you're into the humor as well is your very apparent feelings toward "Dawn of the Ninja."

Toward what?

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess you can do whatever you want. I just think defining it by something both creators are saying shouldn't define it seems dodgy to me at best.

Like I said, I feel like it's being downplayed even though it's obviously there and it's not just a tiny little thing that's hard to notice. Maybe I'm just seeing it differently than it was intended to be seen. I just see humor as a much larger point throughout the comics than other people do.

Yes, there are some very serious elements. They're some of the big classic TMNT moments that I love as much as anyone else. I just don't define the Turtles by those moments as much as other people do.

[jalexbrown]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Where did the idea come from that I'm against humor in the TMNT? I love humor in the TMNT. It's an instrumental part of their "draw." I just prefer there to be a sense of balance about it and not an oversaturation of it such as there is in the films and children's cartoons... that's all.

I dunno, I just feel like I should be able to watch more than 2 minutes of a TMNT movie without being beaten over the head by a Three Stooges impression, or someone clowning around with a funny coo-coo sound effect dubbed in. Maybe it's just me.



They've never said that. They acknowledge the parodic elements... but the parodic elements do not define it.

As someone who has been a fan of pretty much everything that has been offered in the way of the Turtles, I agree with Andrew that it is probably best to take a comic book route with the new movie. I'm certainly not going to be fanatic and obsessive about it dripping with realism - these are four walking, talking, fighting turtles, after all - but I would appreciate them trying to give the franchise a new tone and showing the mainstream what it's really all about. The 90s movies had their chance in the spotlight, and it worked well for the movie companies, and the movies - well, the first one mostly - were good, maybe nearly perfect at what they were trying to accomplish. But I would love to see them try to take the movies in a new, unexplored direction; the last bastion of unexplored territory for the movies, really, is the comics.

[TristanHuwJones]

Sorry if I'm digging up an old thread, but just to clarify, what I wanted to do with B & R isn't quite what people are getting at here. Here's what I pitched. Pete dug it, but still, I don't think the idea of the two appearing in the Mirage comics appealed. Which is fair enough... read on. The idea was that it would be a con exclusive or a special one-shot specifically for the anniversary... an optional-canonical comic.

We open in another dimension (Caption: NOT Dimension X…), where the two massive brutes are being pursued by authorities in an intense car/other-dimensional-vehicle chase! Suddenly, a vortex starts opening in midair just ahead of them…

Cut to our world, where a Foot Mystic and a band of renegade Foot ninjas are trying to open up a portal to the Netherworld (to summon a demon to help them against the Turtles). Unfortunately, the mystic has misinterpreted one of the symbols in the spell used to open the portal correctly. A portal opens, but when the vehicle Bebop and Rocksteady had hi-jacked comes thundering out and pastes the mystic, it becomes very clear that it’s not the right one!

The rest of the Foot renegades scatter and Bebop and Rocksteady check out this strange new world they’ve stumbled into. They are massive too, at least twice the size of Leatherhead. A registered, costumed superhero flies down to try and stop the duo, but they pulverize him (in a comically brutal way, not to death, but there’s no way a normal human would be able to take it).

Cut to the Turtles’ lair, where Raph, Don and Mike are watching late night television (Leo is reading something). A sudden live news broadcast interrupts and reveals that Bebop and Rocksteady are tearing up midtown as police try and take them down.

After getting a call from April (who’s been caught in the midst of the carnage), they spring into action (they would be disguised somehow, either in gear similar to #36, or civilian clothing – long coats, etc.).

They pluck April out of the danger zone and get her to safety without being noticed, everyone seems too freaked out by the massive duo to care.
Mike notices that Karai and a band of her best warriors are on a nearby rooftop. They join her to try and find out what’s going on, and Karai reveals that a rogue mystic had recently stolen a tome from their archives containing spells/rituals that could supposedly open pathways to parallel dimensions. However, without the book they have no idea what spell/ritual was used, or how to send the two creatures back to where they came from. Don and Karai discuss their options and agree to try and come up with something together, but it means that Mike, Leo and Raph, along with the Foot warriors, will have to try and keep the dimension-hopping duo occupied.

As Mike, Leo and Raph fight Rocksteady and Bebop (taking a number of jabs at the old cartoon along the way), Karai and Don manage to put together a trans-dimensional portal using Leatherhead’s makeshift transmat device and various other bits and pieces Don has accumulated over the years. By channelling the mystic energies of a similar spell through the device, they are able to open a wormhole to another dimension (though not necessarily the one they came from).

The group lures Rocksteady and Bebop to the area above Leatherhead’s old lair (where the portal will open), but the two brutes realise they’re being herded towards a trap and start playing dirty. Don and Karai can only keep the portal open for a small amount of time, and with the brutes wise to the trap, the portal overloads the device that opened it.

At a loss for what to do, Mike suggests they call Renet, but none have any idea how to do that – considering she’s just appeared every time they’ve needed her. However, true to form, she does appear, having sensed a disturbingly large tremor in the space-time continuum. The guys fill her in, and Renet floats up towards Bebop and Rocksteady. She begins channelling her energies, chanting (similar to good ol’ Doctor Strange), but suddenly – WHAM! One of the monsters punches her into a building, sending the sceptre scattering off into an alley.

Don rushes to her aide while Raph, Leo, Mike and the Foot launch another assault on the pair. When it looks as though all is lost, Splinter suddenly arrives on the scene, standing quietly between the battle-weary warriors and the battle-ready monsters. The Turtles freak out, thinking Splinter has finally gone insane, and Bebop and Rocksteady find the situation hilarious. But Splinter has Renet’s sceptre!

Splinter mumbles something and suddenly the two are sucked into the sceptre itself!

With the city saved, Don returns with Renet. Karai tells them that she will help provide the funds to repair the damages caused in the chaos. (If you like the alternate ending, Mike could ask where Splinter sent them).

The turtles return home with their master, exhausted.

ALTERNATE ENDING (one final jab at the old cartoon):
We cut to find that Rocksteady and Bebop have been transported to a dusty, arid dimension, somewhat similar to the surface of Mars. They have been secured by hi-tech restraints and are being marched towards a gigantic construct by hulking soldiers who look similar to The Thing. They stop at the base of the construct, just in front of what appears to be large boarding ramp. “New prisoners for you my lord! We found them inside the forbidden zone.”
Bebop and Rocksteady look up, and we see a grotesquely obese Utrom, sitting in the torso cavity of a massive exosuit (think Obediah Stane’s “Iron Monger” suit compared to Tony Stark’s Iron Man suit). The Utrom grins: “Excellent!”

We zoom out for the final panel, revealing that the construct is disturbingly similar to a certain subterranean construct made famous by the old TMNT cartoons..


The End.


END NOTES: I thought it might be funny if the Mirage U Superheroes tried to fight the two, but would just get flicked away like annoying bugs, the only reason the Turtles manage to get their full attention is because Raph or Mike manages to throw either a sai, or a makeshift explosive up Rocksteady’s nose, pissing him off to no end.

The other thing I thought would be to not have any of Rocksteady and Bebop’s language be English, or even remotely recognisable. It would be alien gibberish, but we would be able to ascertain what they’re saying through visuals.

Finally, Rocksteady and Bebop’s names would never be uttered either, except in their native tongues (which we wouldn’t be able to read anyway).

[Kendamu]

Too bad that never got made. I would have loved to have shown that to friends who grwew up on the OT.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

Too bad that never got made. I would have loved to have shown that to friends who grwew up on the OT.

That was the idea. Long-timers would show people who remember the old show the comic version of Bebop and Rocksteady as something of a lure, but there'd also be a healthy dose of Mirage stuff in there as well for those people who may jump in at the FCBD or Con issue (we talked about doing it as either) and want to learn more about these extra characters they'd never heard of (Karai, Renet, etc.)

[Ninjinister]

Aaaand yet they sort of appeared in #58 anyway.

I know, it was a cameo. But still...

[mikey22]

the OT movie would be ok.. but why not have better fresher ideas


no one from the 90s batman animated series could have thought the joker would have been that sadistic


we need a turtle movie to start out right so it can have more than one movie

we need the story to start out with hamato yoshi and orku sakia for a good 20-30 minutes... we need the turtles at pets.. we need them growin up and eventually turning into ninja turtles

for all i can it can be a 2 hour movie of before they became teenage mutant ninja turtles....
it can be how leo was the only one following directions where raphael questions why things need to be done a certain way
mikey n don would sneak out from ninja practice to do their own thing

mikey would be more a sports guy/ skateboards video games/ like he always was while don was more interested in gadgets and reading books

their first battle i think would be a great cameo apperance!

we should have the rat king in the sewers and have a stale mate battle with the very young turtles

or even leatherhead!!! ( i ejnoyed the mirage leatherhead a lot!)

there are many other ideas but this is good for now


I REALLY DONT WANT UTROMS THOUGH!!!! LOL I THINK THOSE ARE STUPID

[Sidian]

i feel like im always the minority but i would love to see a serious take on the OT....my son and i watch it all the time and i love it as much as i did when i was a kid....

to me the turtles ARE the OT, archie comics and the original films...and i feel like we need to get back to that place. anything less will be a failure in my eyes.

the 03 series sucked. yeah it was more serious but it didnt make it more entertaining. 50 friggin shredders and a bunch of bland characters..no thanx.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Sidian

to me the turtles ARE the OT, archie comics and the original films

[Powder]

LOL my thoughts exactly...

[Sidian]

yeah i knew id get that response...dont care though...

my first exposure to them was from the cartoon...i can still remember watching the very first episodes when it came out. and a short time later it was the comics and the movies..

as a little kid i didnt even know that when they were talking about comics that they werent talking about the Archie ones.

and honestly when you talk about the turtles its these things that everyone remembers...you dont see t-shirts in mall stores showing the turtles all in red bandanas...

the turtles are iconic..but not because of the original comic or the newer cartoon or movie.


so yeah i know there are you guys here that are some sort of "purist" and somehow im describing mcdonalds compared to your filet mignon....but were talking about MUTANT TURTLES. if the film is done seriously having bebop and rocksteady makes it no more ridiculous.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Sidian

the turtles are iconic..but not because of the original comic

[Weapon X]

I personally would love to see a live action Bebop and Rocksteady, always have since Secret Of The Ooze. Unfortunately we all have a interpretation that we want to see on film. I really cant see a overly serious movie being made, I just feel the concept of "Dark Knight Of Turtle Films" a bit silly, but I guess we'll just have to see.

[Shark_Blade]

I'm all for it. Or if they want to go with the comic origin, I will like that as well.

As long there's a badass Shredder in it, I'm sold.