Somethings that bug me about Exodus.

**Jester** · 04-07-2011, 02:07 AM

I'm sitting here re-watching Exodus and some things are coming to mind.

Bishop blows Saki's ships tunnel, and Saki says, "Bishop, here!? That changes everything!" They really missed an opportunity not having Saki and Bishop duke it out.

Stockman, Hun, and Chapman help Oroku Saki build a star ship...and none of them question why Saki needs a star ship. (And every time some one mentions the star ship I hear Kirk ask, "What does God need with a star ship?")

Karai mentions the Utroms are "heartless monsters" for hunting Saki down. I guess it's all about you look at things. Made me think of Nick's new race of Kraang(s).

So Hun sees Saki's suit ripped too shreds (no pun intended) and doesn't wonder why his master's got a medal body. Maybe he thought it was some sort of armor...maybe?

Love that the Turtles bring in Leatherhead. Stands to reason he'd wanna take down Saki.

Re-watching this episode, Ch'rell is so a more hard-core Krang.

Man, I forgot who all attempts to stop Shredder. There's the Turtles and Splinter, Casey, April, LH, Prof. Honeycutt, and even Bishop and his commandos.

Saki calls earth a "pitiful mud ball." Very Krang. I wonder if it's an homage.

Saki's armor has 4 arms, kinda like his mutant clones. Has it ever been explained how there even are mutant Shredder clones, if Shredder is an Utrom?

Shredder was going to take Foot Soldiers on his space voyage? Would they learn he's an Utrom? Did the elite know?

Stockman's bug reminds me of Nedry's worm Jurassic Park. The line is even similar.
Nedry: Unh-unh-uh, you didn't say the magic word.
Stockman: unh-unh-uh, you didn't say, "May I?"

For a brilliant scientist, Chapman's really a sap.

You know for being a ninja, Mikey's screaming, "SHREDDER!" as he attacks is kinda dumb.

I'm surprised Donnie didn't lose it after Karai runs Leo through. I mean, wicked bad deja vu. (Add to that Raph being thrown and landing unconscious right next to him...very much like Same as it Never Was.)

Why are Shredder's more inhuman armors (This episode and the aforementioned SaiNW void of some sort of shield over the stomach? I know he doesn't have to maintain a human appearance, but you think it'd be a defensive advantage to you know, not have your squishy Utrom body exposed. Maybe it's a sign of arrogance. "No way anyone's going to get close enough to get to the soft nougaty center. MUHAHA!"

Really Prof, a countdown. "7 seconds until I have control...6...." *Shredder slashes PDA.*

I love how Ch'rell proves to have no honor, proposes to kill the defenseless Turtles, is stopped by Karai, who he nonchalantly back hands before raising a bladed hand to her, and yet she still serves him and even seeks revenge for his banishment in the next season. Really? Dude would have flat killed you for getting in the way of his "evil for evil's sake" killing spree, and you still say, "Well, he's my daddy." BOGUS! Even the Turtles (Ok, Super Turtles, bit whatever) leave Splinter (Sliver) when he goes all wacko genocidal.

Leo's shell seems intact when the guys come too. Just sayin'.

The Turtles proposing to die to save the universe and countless lives is way noble. Thankfully the Utroms picked up the Fugitoid's distress signal.

The Utroms bring a ship to rescue the Turtles and are uber-close to Earth, why not pick up LH. Man, poor guy.

You know what would have been an awesome homage to the FW (Fred Wolf) series, if one of Ch'rell's aliases was "Krang." Too bad they used that one in Secret Origins Part 3 .

Utrom Tribunal takes care of Utrom Shredder. Ninja Tribunal takes care of their rogue member, Oroku Saki, who was possessed by the Demon Shredder. Is that what they call "irony"?

You know, Utrom Shredder is a much more dangerous threat than the Demon Shredder, I mean over 4.2 million aliens, not to mention the people on the Utrom homeworld and Earth.

Karai and Chapman are turned over to earth authorities, but what crime were they charged with? I guess that's why they seem to get a very light sentence.

Sorry, about that. I just was in a nit picky kinda mood.

*BubblyShell22* · 04-07-2011, 07:38 AM

Hey, it's all good. I really like your analysis on this episode. I'll have to watch it again to see alll of these things. I never really took stock of some of them. As for Karai, I agree that she should've just abandoned her father after he tried to kill her for stopping his assault on the Turtles. But anger can make you blind, as Leo knows all too well.

*Xav* · 04-07-2011, 07:58 AM

How the Shredder clones was made was never explained.

*ToTheNines* · 04-07-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xav

How the Shredder clones was made was never explained.

Just because Donatello referred to them as clones doesn't mean they were.

*sdp* · 04-07-2011, 09:44 AM

I definitely have problems with Exodus, first for the most part Shredder is not a big part of Season 4, he spends the whole season worried about the spaceship and not the turtles,. He had no business with the turtles and it seemed odd that the turtles wanted to not allow him to go to the Utrom world and wanted to stop him, if 4 turtles could stop him why couldn't the Utroms with all their technology? Heck it was the Utroms that end up saving the turtles regardless so they weren't defenseless. I guess they felt its their problem however it still felt odd that they were the ones who attacked Shredder and he wasn't attacking them. But what bothers me the most is this is the end of the storyline with Ch'rell (not counting Turtles Forever that might have never happened) and the Shredder defeats the turtles, they are saved by the Utroms and Ch'rell is done away with, they never get to fight Shredder and actually defeat him, heck they don't in Turtles Forever either, he is always shown as their superior.

Only thing that makes up for it is in Fast Forward when Shredder attacks from the time window the turtles are easily able to handle him which I guess means by then they had enough training that even Shredder wasn't a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Stockman, Hun, and Chapman help Oroku Saki build a star ship...and none of them question why Saki needs a star ship. (And every time some one mentions the star ship I hear Kirk ask, "What does God need with a star ship?")

Where they against him having a starship? They probably didn't care or didn't want to ask why because they're afraid. Stockman didn't know he was an Utorm yet by then? I guess not. Doesn't bother me much they were just following orders.

Quote:

So Hun sees Saki's suit ripped too shreds (no pun intended) and doesn't wonder why his master's got a medal body. Maybe he thought it was some sort of armor...maybe?

When watching I actually thought Hun realized Shredder was an Utrom during early Season 2 when he comes back for his master, I went on watching thinking Hun knew he was an Utrom but apparently he didn't realize it.

Quote:

Saki's armor has 4 arms, kinda like his mutant clones. Has it ever been explained how there even are mutant Shredder clones, if Shredder is an Utrom?

I guess just random experimentations Shredder was known for.

Quote:

Stockman's bug reminds me of Nedry's worm Jurassic Park. The line is even similar.
Nedry: Unh-unh-uh, you didn't say the magic word.
Stockman: unh-unh-uh, you didn't say, "May I?

Yup it was a reference, I believe there are also more JP references in the dinosaur episodes, the show was filled with Star Wars lines and also plenty of Star Trek references. I guess they were big fans, since it wasn't just one reference but plenty, in turtles in space alone its at least one per episode.

Quote:

I love how Ch'rell proves to have no honor, proposes to kill the defenseless Turtles, is stopped by Karai, who he nonchalantly back hands before raising a bladed hand to her, and yet she still serves him and even seeks revenge for his banishment in the next season. Really? Dude would have flat killed you for getting in the way of his "evil for evil's sake" killing spree, and you still say, "Well, he's my daddy." BOGUS! Even the Turtles (Ok, Super Turtles, bit whatever) leave Splinter (Sliver) when he goes all wacko genocidal.

Karai's flip-flopping made no sense and was indeed handled very poorly. It was handled much better in Season 4 though.

Quote:

You know what would have been an awesome homage to the FW (Fred Wolf) series, if one of Ch'rell's aliases was "Krang." Too bad they used that one in Secret Origins Part 3 .

I would have loved that, but I doubt Laird had allowed it.

Quote:

Utrom Tribunal takes care of Utrom Shredder. Ninja Tribunal takes care of their rogue member, Oroku Saki, who was possessed by the Demon Shredder. Is that what they call "irony"?

Thats actually a coincidence and not irony.

Quote:

You know, Utrom Shredder is a much more dangerous threat than the Demon Shredder, I mean over 4.2 million aliens, not to mention the people on the Utrom homeworld and Earth.

Quote:

Karai and Chapman are turned over to earth authorities, but what crime were they charged with? I guess that's why they seem to get a very light sentence.

I guess there wasn't evidence plus the fact that they were pissed at Bishop for destroying Saki's party in season 4 the goverment didn't want to charge them?

FearlessLeader · 04-07-2011, 11:07 AM

One thing that drove me nuts period about the 4Kids show but I was reminded of here while reading everything you guys are talking about is the use of the word Bushido.

I know no one in this show outside of characters from the Usagi universe are Samurai and they shouldn't have to follow this code, but it was 4Kids itself that decided to toss in it as the the universes definition of honor.

I could write a very long rant about City at War and Rouge in the House and how it literally jacks up the concept of Bushido with the characters actions, something that could easily have been fixed by simply just using the word honor and leaving any other code of conduct out.

What I am making a very long point getting to is the fact Karai actually staying with Saki even when he threatens her is in fact the core of the Bushido code. Samurai means to serve, you serve your Master regardless of if he is evil, if you agree with him or not, or if it puts your life in peril. You swear your service to him and Karai actually stays to this.

(Not that I for a moment believe that is what 4Kids was getting at, I do truly believe it was just a poorly written plot point but it always amused me that it was one of the few times that actually got the concept they toted through out almost the whole series correct!)

**Jester** · 04-07-2011, 05:59 PM

Ah yes "bushy-dodo" I did find it odd that ninjas were following a decidedly samuari code of honor.

*TheSkeletonMan939* · 04-07-2011, 06:02 PM

I think it would have been a good idea if Exodus had been more than only two episodes -maybe four, five? We could have some more Bishop/Ch'Rell battles, with the turtles, Splinter and Leatherhed being cut off from the Foot and EPF for a time. The turtles could discover a hidden room with all sorts of cool little gizmos that they eventually use against Shredder.

I think it would have been an amazing idea if, like you said, Jester, Don saw Raph and Leo being taken out, and some flashes from SAINW happened, and Donny loses it, completely tearing Shredder apart, and Shredder just manages to leave.

FearlessLeader · 04-07-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

I think it would have been a good idea if Exodus had been more than only two episodes -maybe four, five?

This is JUST how I feel about the City at War episodes!!

*Candy Kappa* · 04-07-2011, 06:17 PM

I thought the use of a human Ch'rell clone could be a interesting idea

*Xav* · 04-07-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Just because Donatello referred to them as clones doesn't mean they were.

Fine whatever you want to call them it was still never explained how or why the were created.

*ToTheNines* · 04-07-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xav

Fine but it was still never explained how or why they were created.

Well we saw that Shredder was into making freaks to do his dirty work in "Notes from the Underground". So why not?

**Jester** · 04-07-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Well we saw that Shredder was into making freaks to do his dirty work in "Notes from the Underground". So why not?

Maybe Karai wasn't an orphan...maybe her family were the Shredder clones!!!

FearlessLeader · 04-07-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Maybe Karai wasn't an orphan...maybe her family were the Shredder clones!!!

I am seriously picturing the most AWESOME tea parties when she was a little girl now!

*gobo* · 04-07-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Some things that bug me about "Exodus":

It never should have been a season finale. The five-part "Return of the Ultimate Ninja" was more epic and deserving of finale-status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Karai mentions the Utroms are "heartless monsters" for hunting Saki down.

VERY weak excuse...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

So Hun sees Saki's suit ripped too shreds (no pun intended) and doesn't wonder why his master's got a metal body. Maybe he thought it was some sort of armor...maybe?

That's when he found out. So, I dunno what you mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Saki calls earth a "pitiful mud ball." Very Krang. I wonder if it's an homage.

Very likely so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Has it ever been explained how there even are mutant Shredder clones, if Shredder is an Utrom?

I plan to... sometime by the turn of the century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Shredder was going to take Foot Soldiers on his space voyage? Would they learn he's an Utrom? Did the elite know?

O_o I thought he, Karai and Chaplain were the only passengers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

For a brilliant scientist, Chapman's really a sap.

What gave ya that idea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Why are Shredder's more inhuman armors (This episode and the aforementioned SaiNW void of some sort of shield over the stomach? I know he doesn't have to maintain a human appearance, but you think it'd be a defensive advantage to you know, not have your squishy Utrom body exposed. Maybe it's a sign of arrogance. "No way anyone's going to get close enough to get to the soft nougaty center. MUHAHA!"

"If there's one constant in the multiverse, it's The Shredder's big, fat ego."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Utrom Tribunal takes care of Utrom Shredder. Ninja Tribunal takes care of their rogue member, Oroku Saki, who was possessed by the Demon Shredder.

How about that... I guess it's entirely possible that this could have been some type of foreshadowing or what-have-you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Karai and Chapman are turned over to earth authorities, but what crime were they charged with?

Biggest question!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

I think it would have been an amazing idea if, like you said, Jester, Don saw Raph and Leo being taken out, and some flashes from SAINW happened, and Donny loses it, completely tearing Shredder apart, and Shredder just manages to leave.

Rise of the Dark Turtle? O_o

k_lala · 04-07-2011, 08:26 PM

I loved Exodus, it was one of my favorites. Top 3 for me.

**Jester** · 04-07-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

That's when he found out. So, I dunno what you mean.

Hun fights with Shredder for quite a while before finally Saki's face is peeled off. That's what made him figure it out, but until then, he has very robotic arms and torso.

Quote:

O_o I thought he, Karai and Chaplain were the only passengers.

They were, but at one point Karai mentions that because they took off early most of Shredder's forces were left behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo

"If there's one constant in the multiverse, it's The Shredder's big, fat ego."

Touche.

*Xav* · 04-08-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdp

When watching I actually thought Hun realized Shredder was an Utrom during early Season 2 when he comes back for his master, I went on watching thinking Hun knew he was an Utrom but apparently he didn't realize it.

Why would that make you think he knew and not the part when he stood infront of Hun and told Leo he cut off his head?

*PizzaPower* · 04-08-2011, 11:18 AM

ohhh man i would love to see biship and saki just duke it out that would be epic

*BubblyShell22* · 04-08-2011, 12:04 PM

Yeah, same here. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.

04-07-2011, 02:07 AM	#1
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,298	Somethings that bug me about Exodus. I'm sitting here re-watching Exodus and some things are coming to mind. Bishop blows Saki's ships tunnel, and Saki says, "Bishop, here!? That changes everything!" They really missed an opportunity not having Saki and Bishop duke it out. Stockman, Hun, and Chapman help Oroku Saki build a star ship...and none of them question why Saki needs a star ship. (And every time some one mentions the star ship I hear Kirk ask, "What does God need with a star ship?") Karai mentions the Utroms are "heartless monsters" for hunting Saki down. I guess it's all about you look at things. Made me think of Nick's new race of Kraang(s). So Hun sees Saki's suit ripped too shreds (no pun intended) and doesn't wonder why his master's got a medal body. Maybe he thought it was some sort of armor...maybe? Love that the Turtles bring in Leatherhead. Stands to reason he'd wanna take down Saki. Re-watching this episode, Ch'rell is so a more hard-core Krang. Man, I forgot who all attempts to stop Shredder. There's the Turtles and Splinter, Casey, April, LH, Prof. Honeycutt, and even Bishop and his commandos. Saki calls earth a "pitiful mud ball." Very Krang. I wonder if it's an homage. Saki's armor has 4 arms, kinda like his mutant clones. Has it ever been explained how there even are mutant Shredder clones, if Shredder is an Utrom? Shredder was going to take Foot Soldiers on his space voyage? Would they learn he's an Utrom? Did the elite know? Stockman's bug reminds me of Nedry's worm Jurassic Park. The line is even similar. Nedry: Unh-unh-uh, you didn't say the magic word. Stockman: unh-unh-uh, you didn't say, "May I?" For a brilliant scientist, Chapman's really a sap. You know for being a ninja, Mikey's screaming, "SHREDDER!" as he attacks is kinda dumb. I'm surprised Donnie didn't lose it after Karai runs Leo through. I mean, wicked bad deja vu. (Add to that Raph being thrown and landing unconscious right next to him...very much like Same as it Never Was.) Why are Shredder's more inhuman armors (This episode and the aforementioned SaiNW void of some sort of shield over the stomach? I know he doesn't have to maintain a human appearance, but you think it'd be a defensive advantage to you know, not have your squishy Utrom body exposed. Maybe it's a sign of arrogance. "No way anyone's going to get close enough to get to the soft nougaty center. MUHAHA!" Really Prof, a countdown. "7 seconds until I have control...6...." Shredder slashes PDA. I love how Ch'rell proves to have no honor, proposes to kill the defenseless Turtles, is stopped by Karai, who he nonchalantly back hands before raising a bladed hand to her, and yet she still serves him and even seeks revenge for his banishment in the next season. Really? Dude would have flat killed you for getting in the way of his "evil for evil's sake" killing spree, and you still say, "Well, he's my daddy." BOGUS! Even the Turtles (Ok, Super Turtles, bit whatever) leave Splinter (Sliver) when he goes all wacko genocidal. Leo's shell seems intact when the guys come too. Just sayin'. The Turtles proposing to die to save the universe and countless lives is way noble. Thankfully the Utroms picked up the Fugitoid's distress signal. The Utroms bring a ship to rescue the Turtles and are uber-close to Earth, why not pick up LH. Man, poor guy. You know what would have been an awesome homage to the FW (Fred Wolf) series, if one of Ch'rell's aliases was "Krang." Too bad they used that one in Secret Origins Part 3 . Utrom Tribunal takes care of Utrom Shredder. Ninja Tribunal takes care of their rogue member, Oroku Saki, who was possessed by the Demon Shredder. Is that what they call "irony"? You know, Utrom Shredder is a much more dangerous threat than the Demon Shredder, I mean over 4.2 million aliens, not to mention the people on the Utrom homeworld and Earth. Karai and Chapman are turned over to earth authorities, but what crime were they charged with? I guess that's why they seem to get a very light sentence. Sorry, about that. I just was in a nit picky kinda mood. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656 Last edited by Jester; 04-07-2011 at 02:24 AM.

04-07-2011, 07:38 AM	#2
BubblyShell22 Leo-holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,912	Hey, it's all good. I really like your analysis on this episode. I'll have to watch it again to see alll of these things. I never really took stock of some of them. As for Karai, I agree that she should've just abandoned her father after he tried to kill her for stopping his assault on the Turtles. But anger can make you blind, as Leo knows all too well. __________________ "A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One. "Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.

04-07-2011, 07:58 AM	#3
Xav Foot Elite Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,044	How the Shredder clones was made was never explained. Last edited by Xav; 03-21-2015 at 09:37 PM.

04-07-2011, 11:07 AM	#6
FearlessLeader Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Watching Space Heroes Posts: 1,048	One thing that drove me nuts period about the 4Kids show but I was reminded of here while reading everything you guys are talking about is the use of the word Bushido. I know no one in this show outside of characters from the Usagi universe are Samurai and they shouldn't have to follow this code, but it was 4Kids itself that decided to toss in it as the the universes definition of honor. I could write a very long rant about City at War and Rouge in the House and how it literally jacks up the concept of Bushido with the characters actions, something that could easily have been fixed by simply just using the word honor and leaving any other code of conduct out. What I am making a very long point getting to is the fact Karai actually staying with Saki even when he threatens her is in fact the core of the Bushido code. Samurai means to serve, you serve your Master regardless of if he is evil, if you agree with him or not, or if it puts your life in peril. You swear your service to him and Karai actually stays to this. (Not that I for a moment believe that is what 4Kids was getting at, I do truly believe it was just a poorly written plot point but it always amused me that it was one of the few times that actually got the concept they toted through out almost the whole series correct!) __________________ Artwork by Jim Lawson

04-07-2011, 05:59 PM	#7
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,298	Ah yes "bushy-dodo" I did find it odd that ninjas were following a decidedly samuari code of honor. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

04-07-2011, 06:17 PM	#10
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	I thought the use of a human Ch'rell clone could be a interesting idea __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

04-07-2011, 08:26 PM	#16
k_lala Hench Mutant Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 413	I loved Exodus, it was one of my favorites. Top 3 for me.

04-08-2011, 11:18 AM	#19
PizzaPower Foot Elite Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pizza Parlor Posts: 3,200	ohhh man i would love to see biship and saki just duke it out that would be epic __________________ https://www.twitch.tv/turtlepizzapower

04-08-2011, 12:04 PM	#20
BubblyShell22 Leo-holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,912	Yeah, same here. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. __________________ "A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One. "Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.