1989: The Great TMNT Year(and will 2003 be the next 1989?)

[Karpo_007]

No matter how many new character were in it, or if it had few good jokes, Recycling plots is bad writing. Of course that isn't neccesarily the writes fault, I have heard theories that the dead lines were too tight.

Edit: I wrote before what well written show has. Major points, Good plost that don't repeat itself, Character development.

TMNT lacked on both accounts.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

EDIT: This post is referring to a reply that Karpo sent me. It has since been edited, as was his post.

Karpo, what did I just get done saying? Apparently, you weren't listening.

I am not dogging on you in my post. I'm just using what you have to say to illustrate my points. I will use what anyone says on here to illustrate my points. We've all done it.

The thing that concerns me, however, is you. You seem to be offended when people don't agree with you. We're not all going to agree. If God wanted us all to agree, he'd have made it that way.

I am not trying to start an argument. I am not trying to start a flame war. I am merely stating my opinion, something that you seem to have a problem with.

If you don't like what I have to say, fine. I can live with that. Sometimes I don't like what you have to say, either. But I do respect what you have to say. I don't do as other people have done and go, "Karpo, you're so stupid. Why don't you just shut your mouth?"

There's a difference between liking what someone says and respecting it. I'm not sure you've figured that out yet.

And now this argument - that was never really an argument - is over.

"Well, that was a short trip." - Raphael, from "Shredder is Splintered"

[Karpo_007]

I replied too soon, and edited it out... You could have put that on top, that way it seems you were waiting for a reaction like that.

[Tokka-B]

Thanks a lot beaker, look what you created....LOL

[Karpo_007]

Well it is NTCF who takes things personally... I was just having a debate on the subject.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

I didn't take what you had to say personally, Karpo. If anyone lost their cool, it was you. You just don't like it when someone counterpoints you.

And that's all I did. Did I bash the new cartoon? No. Did I bash the comic book? No. Did I bash you personally? You'd like to think that, but again, the answer is no. I used what you said, your written thoughts, and used them in my defense.

And, once again, this argument is done. This is the second time I've said it. If you want to stretch this out anymore, Karpo, then go right on ahead. But I have said my piece (I expect you have said yours) and what is done is done. It's in the past.

Let's move on.

"I can see this is going to be one of those days." - Raphael, from "The Big Zipp Attack"

[Wingnut]

Touche'

[Tokka-B]

Lol, I like how your quote always reflects the topic of your post....very clever

[Karpo_007]

I will. I said the argument is over hours ago beofre you made that post. Still you haven't counterpointed the two main things that are in a well written series. Those are Good non repeatitive plots and character development. Old TMNT show lacked on both.

Don't come saying what I want to think. I love to debate, I don't get offended if people disgaree with me. I m just trying to prove them wrong. Yet you have not been able to over rule those arguments, So I won't admit my defeat.

[Wingnut]

Now were gonna have an argument over who made the first "argument over post"

[Karpo_007]

No, Im just waiting how long post is coming... But untill he can prove me wrong on those accounts, I won't admit my defeat.

[Shellfox]

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Read few of the synopses, the plot is not repeatitive..

read all of them thank you, and yes they don't sound repetitive, but again its the people who made them that are saying that, they aren't going to say that they made the same Ep 26 times and tried to make a story around it. Yes they all may be diffrent, but you can only do a show like this so many diffrent ways, while the plots may be diffrent chances are the shows them selves may all seem similar when they are played

Again for all we know, they just used the shows as a basis and made the show so even 4 year oolds with the attention spans of gnats can follow it. Again I have no proff of any of this, but it may happen, they are targeting kids, not 20 somethings. They tried that with Beast Machines and came up with a series while inovative and please to some fans also was full of crap

[Wingnut]

Your persistance is admireable

[Karpo_007]

I have to admit there is a point... But I don't belive it will go that far, the Dialogue heard in the voice clips was good.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

I will. I said the argument is over hours ago beofre you made that post. Still you haven't counterpointed the two main things that are in a well written series. Those are Good non repeatitive plots and character development. Old TMNT show lacked on both.

Don't come saying what I want to think. I love to debate, I don't get offended if people disgaree with me. I m just trying to prove them wrong. Yet you have not been able to over rule those arguments, So I won't admit my defeat.

Okay, Karpo, I'm going to take you up on your challenge. For anyone who ever reads this thread, they will never forget it. We are making it a memorable one.

And, by the way, I love a good debate too. Just in case some people hadn't already figured that out.

1. Non-repetitive plots: You said that Shredder and Krang were always looking for something to power up the Technodrome. You also said that there was always a mad scientist trying to take over the world. Now I will admit - and this point goes to Karpo - that there were, indeed, many mad scientists in the history of the series. Or mad pirates or whatever the episode called for. But Shredder and Krang looking for ways to power up the Technodrome became one of the bases for the cartoon to build on.

The Technodrome needs power. Shredder and Krang don't have something to give it power. So they go to the surface - or to Mother Earth, depending upon where they were - to get something to power up the Technodrome.

That the Technodrome guzzles up energy like high-octane cars do to gasoline made it realistic. You can't expect a battle machine that huge to be as energized as the Energizer Bunny. The writers realized this. If Shredder and Krang had power in the Technodrome, they could call all the forces of Dimension X and roll over whatever was in their path.

Remember episodes like the "Big Trilogy" and "Shredder Triumphant!"? Those episodes demonstrated what the Technodrome could do when it was powered. If the Technodrome were powered all the time, the series could have ended in just a few episodes. The Turtles would have lost that war. But by making the Technodrome a liability, it infuses reality into the Technodrome.

Having Shredder and Krang repeatedly try to get power for the Technodrome was not repetitive. It was a part of the storyline that was created for the show. Things that are too powerful aren't interesting. Nobody likes something that has no weaknesses. That's just a cheap ploy. If the Technodrome had the power to snuff out the Turtles whenever it wanted, it could have. But the writers did something even better with that concept.

2. Character development: I know you're not going to buy any reason I give for character development, but I'm going to give you examples anyway.

There was substantial character development when the series went to CBS. Seasons 1-3 are not 4-10.

A. In seasons 4-10, you had Raphael becoming a comic and sing-along Turtle. We also saw what happens when a guy like Raphael gets hit with a Personality Modifying Ray.

B. You had Donatello owning his own business, a repair shop, and earning his degree at a university.

C. Leonardo's character changed as early as Season 3 when his voice pitch went higher. Leonardo also fit the sting of the Personality Modifying Ray. He also owned his own fitness gym for a while.

D. Michaelangelo went from a party dude to a party dud by the end of the series. If anything, Michaelangelo's character digreseed. Not only did he have his nunchuks taken away, he also became a party pooper. But he did have his own cooking show for a while.

E. In episodes like "Blast from the Past" and "The Legend of Koji," we get more information about the Foot Clan. That Shibono Sama guy (I don't know how to spell the name) was even mentioned in both episodes.

F. In flashbacks, we saw bits and pieces of Krang's past. We found out he and his kind were working with Dimensional travel. We find out in "Get Shredder!" that Krang was lent a hand in building the Technodrome by a character named Bezerko a.k.a. Drakus. We learned what a fullbody version of Krang looks like in "Invasion of the Krangezoids."

These are all examples of character development. Any piece of information that you find out about a character that you didn't know before is character development.

"A lot of my inventions actually work, you know." - Donatello, from "Night of the Dark Turtle"

[Karpo_007]

Repeatitiviness

Well I agree, If they had to use Shredder and Krang most of the Time, There weren't many plot choices. But they could have lost the technodrome and try to do something diffent. But they didn't, that is why it were repeatitive.

Also the mad scinetists eps... All of the mad scinetists were basicly same character. Always someone who wanted to revenge to the world... repeatitive. Well most of this happens during seasons 3-6. Season 1 wasn't like that, Season 2 had very good plots too, But in season 3, they started had too many writers. I belive that is what caused 1. The lack of continyity 2. the repeatitiviness. Still I'l have to say that almost all David wise eps were well written, but sadly he did only small ammount of episodes during seasons 3-6.


Character development

You are right, your examples aren't really good ones.. Character development is a event in a story that affects the charaters behaviour in future episodes. The show lacked this.

All these things are only true on seasons 2-7. 1 and 8-10 Have good non repeatitive plots, aswell as charater development. And almost ala of those are writen by David wise. This proves, that all of those problems are due to huge number of writers.

[Wingnut]

Wow

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Karpo, I think you and I will only agree on one thing. And that is, we both agree to disagree.

No matter what Karpo says, I'm not gonna buy it. No matter what I say, Karpo's not gonna buy it either.

These are the kinds of discussions I wish I could have with people I know in real life. But I seem to be a dying breed from where I'm from. The Turtles are passe now.

Bebop: "We give up!"
Rocksteady: "Ditto."
Michaelangelo: "Hey, zoo-face, I thought you were on our side!"

From "The Foot Soldiers Are Revolting"

[Shellfox]

Ok just want to say something on the mad Scientist repetitivness. MS are usually generic, its not a TMNT cartoon thing, any time a MS is brought in to anyshow or plot in any form they are pretty much the same person, their are exceptions, but usually they are the same person, but with a diffrent gimic. Its not a TMNT flaw, its just how its done

[Karpo_007]

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

Karpo, I think you and I will only agree on one thing. And that is, we both agree to disagree.

No matter what Karpo says, I'm not gonna buy it. No matter what I say, Karpo's not gonna buy it either.

These are the kinds of discussions I wish I could have with people I know in real life. But I seem to be a dying breed from where I'm from. The Turtles are passe now.

Bebop: "We give up!"
Rocksteady: "Ditto."
Michaelangelo: "Hey, zoo-face, I thought you were on our side!"

From "The Foot Soldiers Are Revolting"

Heh probably true, But that is a good way around saying that you can't counter my arguments... Come on! You must think of something!