What Should Teenage Turtles and/or Rats Look Like?

[Revan]

I often come across posts of users commenting on different versions of the turtles “not appearing to be 15.” I can only assume they are basing this on what 15 year old human teenagers look like, which seems like a stretch to me considering the turtles are obviously not human. So my first question is:

What should a 15 year old mutant turtle look like? Well, there is no scientific answer. Thank you Neutrino, captain obvious. It’s all a matter of opinion.

However, while trying to understand someone’s opinion that “this” version doesn’t look young enough or “that” version looks too young, I thought of Splinter. Now I pose a question to those of you who don’t feel a particular depiction of the turtles looks “teenage” enough:

What are your thoughts on Splinter’s appearance?

The average lifespan of a rat is 2-3 years. So he is most likely around that age when exposed to the transmat waste at the same time the turtles were. We know from just about every incarnation of the turtles that they were indeed “baby” turtles at the time of their exposure. Therefore, Splinter should be about 2 years old and the turtles should be less than a year (approximately). Yet, Splinter is almost always depicted as much older in appearance and no one ever seems to question the way he looks. We are lead to believe he is old and wise but he cannot be much older than the turtles by more than a few years.

[Slap-Happy]

Splinter may be older than the turtles by a year or two, but it seems that when the mutation starts, Splinter starts to change into an older rat right away, while the turtles seem to have the same amount of time to turn into teenagers as a human child. Think of their lives before they were mutants as having turtle or rat years if you will, where Splinter was old on that scale, while only two or three in human years.

EDIT: Just looked it up, and two human years equals 120 rat years, but fifteen human years is one turtle year, so I'd imagine the turtles to be a few weeks old when Splinter finds them.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Slap Happy

but fifteen human years is one turtle year, so I'd imagine the turtles to be a few weeks old when Splinter finds them.

What kind of nonsense is that? Red-earred sliders only live to about 25-30 years old, max.

[Redeemer]

Also didnt the turtles come directly into contact with the ooze and splinter got it on him from the turtles?????

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Also didnt the turtles come directly into contact with the ooze and splinter got it on him from the turtles?????

Yep. This is true. Which is fine in every universe except the one where the mutagen operates as a nonsense "Last Thing Ya Touched!"

[Slap-Happy]

I may have read it wrong. Could be the other way around. But like Nuetrino said, Rats only live two to three human years, but turtles would live around two years on their own scale.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Slap Happy

Splinter may be older than the turtles by a year or two, but it seems that when the mutation starts, Splinter starts to change into an older rat right away, while the turtles seem to have the same amount of time to turn into teenagers as a human child. Think of their lives before they were mutants as having turtle or rat years if you will, where Splinter was old on that scale, while only two or three in human years.

EDIT: Just looked it up, and two human years equals 120 rat years, but fifteen human years is one turtle year, so I'd imagine the turtles to be a few weeks old when Splinter finds them.

This is more or less how I feel. However, if you are going to think about it this way, their appearances in the 2k3 should be spot on.

I sometimes see people say they think the turtles look too old in the 2k3 series. But if we take into account how long turtles live, their appearance seems to fit well: the same can be said for splinter.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What kind of nonsense is that? Red-earred sliders only live to about 25-30 years old, max.

Really? Got a citation for this? Because my sources say upwards of 40, and sometimes as far as 70.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Really? Got a citation for this? Because my sources say upwards of 40, and sometimes as far as 70.

It all comes back to what the purpose of the Mutagen in BOTH the Mirage/Movie and cartoon universes. It was something the Utroms were toying with that would make them more human, something that Krang probably developed in the cartoon because he wanted his body back. Krang's body wasn't severed from him or anything like that--something was done to him that made him devolve, almost like a butterfly turning back into a caterpillar. Having said that, Mutagen also wakes up things in DNA that were present but previously dormant. So it not only made the turtles humanoid, but it would have reactivated things in their DNA. If we assume everything evolved from common ancestors, and that everything has the potential to become more humanlike over time, then it makes sense that they would have characteristics of other kinds of turtles/reptiles. Raphael's reaction to the vampire attack in Vol. 4 is a great example of this.

The one good thing that clicking this thread did for me was made me think about Mutagen in a way I hadn't before. It isn't necessarily that it "makes things human" so much as it speeds up evolution. This is why the dandelions in TMNT II weren't "humanoid." They might have started to become that way over time had Freddy not picked that one and Perry discoved the others, but it would have taken much longer. Evolutionarily, a turtle or a rat are both MUCH more like a human being than a plant.

[plastroncafe]

In terms of a fictional world, sure...that's how evolution could work. But in terms of how evolution actually works, you're wrong. You assume that evolution is selected "the best," when in actuality it's selecting "just good enough." And that "just good enough" is for the current environmental factors, and not some perfect being.

Evolution =/= Progress

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Evolution =/= Progress

What does this mean? And I'm never wrong.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by ***CJJ***

What does this mean? And I'm never wrong.

≠ means "not equal"

I like Slap Happy's post. Their appearance seems to be based on how old there are in "human" years so to speak. Splinter, though only roughly two years old, was much older for a rat so when he was mutated, he took on that appearance.

[themaxonline]

I always thought that Splinter spent a long time in the sewers before the turtles came down, they mutated and were younger and probably spent years with him in human form before they became what we know of them as. I always figured their skills were taught to them rather than being a result of the mutagen.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

I always figured their skills were taught to them rather than being a result of the mutagen.

I have come to terms that Splinter learned ninjitsu from his cage as a rat. It seems silly but it's hardly a stretch for tmnt. His abilities could also have been a symptom of the mutagen, however. As a normal rat, he could have visually witnessed Yoshi training and the stimuli could have been stored in some part of his rat brain only to be released by his exposure to the mutagen. Then when his intellect increased, he "remembered" the skills he witnessed and was then able to learn ninjitsu.

One "theory" I have always assumed while being a turtle fan. It just seems to make sense to me

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I have come to terms that Splinter learned ninjitsu from his cage as a rat. It seems silly but it's hardly a stretch for tmnt. His abilities could also have been a symptom of the mutagen, however. As a normal rat, he could have visually witnessed Yoshi training and the stimuli could have been stored in some part of his rat brain only to be released by his exposure to the mutagen. Then when his intellect increased, he "remembered" the skills he witnessed and was then able to learn ninjitsu.

One "theory" I have always assumed while being a turtle fan. It just seems to make sense to me

Hey, it makes sense to me!

[Revan]

totally

but PL has stated Splinter was just a normal rat mimicking Yoshi.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Slap Happy

I may have read it wrong. Could be the other way around. But like Nuetrino said, Rats only live two to three human years, but turtles would live around two years on their own scale.

I can tell you a one year old turtle isn't even sexually mature. Not even the very small species Clemmys Gutatta. It's more size than age that makes them into mature turtles. about 3" and up you can start to tell boys from girls and all mature at different rates. Two turtles from one species doesn't grow the same rate.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What kind of nonsense is that? Red-earred sliders only live to about 25-30 years old, max.

Altho rare, there is or was..no idea if she is still alive...there is a record of an 80 year old RES. This little old lady got the turtle as a hatchling when she was a kid and at a carnival I think. Kind cool.

Another note, some rats live to be 4 or 5, not often. Ayn Rat lived to about 4.5 yrs old and she was ancient.