Why isn't Kevin as opposed to Fred Wolf characters like Peter is?

*CyberCubed* · 08-20-2011, 12:13 AM

PL has made his dislike for most of the Fred Wolf characters many, many times. He of course prevented the 4kids writers from using them in the cartoon, and would not allow any of them to appear in the Mirage comics either. (although Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady got a brief cameo in one of the Cowboys of Moo Mesa issues...)

Kevin Eastman on the other hand actually seems open to the idea of old Fred Wolf characters. He's never shown any real obvious disdain for the cartoons (as far as I know), and he even approved of a female turtle, something Peter would never do.

Likewise now that we know Krang is appearing in the IDW series, which Kevin is co-writing, you really have to wonder. Why doesn't Kevin Eastman oppose the old mutant characters or Fred Wolf characters like PL does?

**Jester** · 08-20-2011, 12:34 AM

Part of me wonders if Kevin sees the potential of those characters. Sure they were created for the "cheesy" kids show, but in the right hands, they could be more. Never discount a character because of their origin...but IDK. Maybe we should ask Kevin.

*CyberCubed* · 08-20-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Part of me wonders if Kevin sees the potential of those characters. Sure they were created for the "cheesy" kids show, but in the right hands, they could be more. Never discount a character because of their origin...but IDK. Maybe we should ask Kevin.

I find it strange since Kevin likes the more gritty, realistic aspect of the Turtles, yet PL likes the more sci-fi aspect of it.

Yet most of the old toon/Archie mutants were more based on the sci-fi elements....

*Powder* · 08-20-2011, 12:45 AM

Kevin sees the Turtles for what they are; a global phenomenon that is popular no matter what. He's obviously very opened minded, and is probably straight up flattered that people want to do so many different things with his creation. Pete has (as of the last decade at least) seemed to think of them as his sole property that should only be done his way, and any non-Mirage version should be swept away.

Peter = AndrewNDB lulz (Just poking fun at ya buddy)

*Roseangelo* · 08-20-2011, 01:03 AM

Kevin isn't an ass.

**Jester** · 08-20-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Kevin isn't an ass.

Oh, come on. That's a little harsh. I know you 2 have never seen eye to eye, but there's no need for that.

*Donnie* · 08-20-2011, 01:10 AM

Leave it to C3 to start a thread like this, clearly calling out the anti-Laird wolves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Kevin isn't an ass.

Completely uncalled for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Oh, come on. That's a little harsh. I know you 2 have never seen eye to eye, but there's no need for that.

Seriously.

What, PL didn't like your "Ninja Pizza", Rose?

People are way too harsh on Peter Laird. He has done more for TMNT than Kevin ever has, and up until this new IDW series one would have put money on never hearing Kevin's name associated with the Turtles again outside of public appearances.

*ToTheNines* · 08-20-2011, 01:12 AM

I think Eastman is simply a more open-minded individual.

*Spitfire* · 08-20-2011, 01:58 AM

Peter tends to view what happened to turtles outside of the comics as complete rape. He basically sold his soul and it's obvious he regrets it now. The turtles he made are not what's well known, some goofy pizza eating surfers are.

Kevin seems to be able to make a separation of things. I think overall he takes turtles less seriously, Bodycount clued us in on that, and in doing so views the franchise like any other. Is turtles really any different then Batman or Spider-man? They've all had good and bad TV shows, both animated and live action. They've had embarrassing live stage performances and spent years being treated less serious then they were meant to be because of past media portrayal.

*Slap-Happy* · 08-20-2011, 02:45 AM

I think Peter takes the turtles way more seriously than Kevin does. It seems to me, that Kevin has love for any and everything turtles related. Including Venus, Next Mutation, etc.

Bsically, Kevin hasn't forgotten that the turtles started off as a tounge in cheek parody, while Pete thinks of them as a little more sophisticated.

**Jester** · 08-20-2011, 02:51 AM

I agree with Spitfire and Mr. Reilly. It seems that Kevin is a little more laid back in general, and sees the Turtles as fun characters to tell fun stories with. Peter seems more reserved (uptight, if you will) and he treated the Turtles very seriously, it seemed. Maybe Kevin's distance from the Turtles until recently made him excited to work with these characters he enjoys again.

It's odd that once Peter relinquished the property, Kevin came back. Is it a coincidence, or do you think Kevin didn't feel like he could tell the stories he wanted with Peter's hands heavy on the reins?

EDIT: It's odd typing Kevin so much...that's my name...

Abnormal Freak · 08-20-2011, 02:51 AM

Kevin's more fun. :p

*Slap-Happy* · 08-20-2011, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

It's odd that once Peter relinquished the property, Kevin came back. Is it a coincidence, or do you think Kevin didn't feel like he could tell the stories he wanted with Peter's hands heavy on the reins?

It's already better than when only Laird had the rights. The new comics and cartoon already look a helluva' lot more entertaining than the last 10 years of turtles cartoons and comics (excluding Tales).

**Jester** · 08-20-2011, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chicken Whisperer

It's already better than when only Laird had the rights. The new comics and cartoon already look a helluva' lot more entertaining than the last 10 years of turtles cartoons and comics (excluding Tales).

I dunna, the 4Kids series was fine for what it was, a more serious cartoon adapting many of the early Eastman and Laird issues. Volume 4 was a little slow, but not the worst. Heck, I wish that Kevin and Pete could have figured out a way to work it out and both continue to work on the series until now. But maybe they were too much of an odd couple for that to have happened.

King Suck · 08-20-2011, 08:58 AM

Peter is very controlling and Mirage purist in his views on his co creation. That has had both its good and bad results over the years. I think some of wolfs characters can be updated and incorporated into IDWs new TMNT and if done right will come off awesome (please no female turtle though

)

When Peter sold the property I was really pissed at him. After reading his explanation where he discussed his mental health not so much.

IDW offered Peter a chance to be involved in the new TMNT and he declined. Now after reading his blog where he said he he would be involved if Kevin asked him to be directly I feel sorry for him more then anything. Guy needs a hug.

I do secretly hope Peter and Kevin will work on TMNT together again someday. But if they dont I hope seeing what IDW does with his turtles relights his creative spark or puts the fire under Peters ass and makes him do his own thing again (His deal with Viacom allows him to Publish something like 18 issues under Mirage a year).

*DrSpengler* · 08-20-2011, 10:06 AM

Laird still thinks of himself as a legitimate underground indie comics creator and the Turtles as a legitimate underground indie comics title, or at least he did for the last few years before he sold his creation to a multinational corporation for several million dollars.

While it was certainly a... noble mindset, it was also a bit delusional. He "sold out" decades ago and there's simply no changing history. Refusing to distribute your comic in major bookstores in order to "keep Mirage small" isn't going to erase the fact that you spent twenty years selling action figures, trapperkeepers and paper napkins with your creation's faces smeared on them to haul in a quick and easy payday of colossal proportions.

Whereas Laird was only interested in pleasing fans of "his" Turtles (not allowing Fred Wolf and Archie characters to appear in the 4Kids series, keeping them out of the toyline, etc) and has that strict "my way or the highway, don't like it then don't buy it" mantra, I think Eastman is a far more amicable individual.

He understands that there are different sects of the casual and hardcore Turtle fandom and he's no qualms when it comes to trying to please more than just the fans of "his original vision".

Whereas Laird would respond to requests with "if you don't like it, scram", Eastman's the kinda guy who'll respond with "lemme see what I can do".

Just two very different personalities.

I appreciate that, at the very end, Laird relented on his stance and let us have "Turtles Forever". I'm grateful for that. And I'm not of the exaggerated opinion that "if Eastman had bought out Laird instead of the other way around, the streets would be paved with GOLD".

However, I didn't care for Laird's years of marginalizing fans of anything other than what he created.

**Venom** · 08-20-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Is it a coincidence, or do you think Kevin didn't feel like he could tell the stories he wanted with Peter's hands heavy on the reins?

It's funny you say tha because Kevin said almost those exact words a few years back in an interview. IIRC, it was SuicideGirls.

I hope that Kevin does get in touch with Peter and asks him to collaborate again. With the property being out of their hands the two could legitimately return to creating "Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" at a less stressful pace.

azrael · 08-20-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Suck

Peter is very controlling and Mirage purist in his views on his co creation. That has had both its good and bad results over the years. I think some of wolfs characters can be updated and incorporated into IDWs new TMNT and if done right will come off awesome (please no female turtle though

)

When Peter sold the property I was really pissed at him. After reading his explanation where he discussed his mental health not so much.

IDW offered Peter a chance to be involved in the new TMNT and he declined. Now after reading his blog where he said he he would be involved if Kevin asked him to be directly I feel sorry for him more then anything. Guy needs a hug.

I do secretly hope Peter and Kevin will work on TMNT together again someday. But if they dont I hope seeing what IDW does with his turtles relights his creative spark or puts the fire under Peters ass and makes him do his own thing again (His deal with Viacom allows him to Publish something like 18 issues under Mirage a year).

I have always wanted Kevin and Peter to do a "this is how mirage tmnt end" whether they get killed, die or just go on would be a fitting end.

*Xav* · 08-20-2011, 11:50 AM

As Kevin said in an interview Peter was more of a purist and Kevin has less of an attachment to the Turtles than he did.

*DrSpengler* · 08-20-2011, 11:57 AM

In regards to the perception of Laird being a "dick" or such, well, he's definately a guy with a very aggressive and critical personality. He doesn't mince words, he doesn't hide what he thinks beneath a masque of subtlety and he doesn't have patience for pleasantries.

I think Laird's always been that way. Steve Murphy tells the story of how he was considering quitting Mirage because of the pressure coming down on him from Victor Gorelick. He went to Laird looking for a sympathetic ear and what he got was a "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

Laird's a guy who has no time for what he perceives as "whining", regardless of circumstances.

Those attributes certainly do seem "dickish", but I'm sure they're neccessary for running a global franchise and trying to keep some semblance of creative control over the whole thing.

The last ten years or so have definately been Laird trying to steer the franchise back into the direction he wanted rather than let it get away from him like it did in the 80s and early 90s. While I don't appreciate the marginalizing of fans who preferred other concepts from the franchsie that he didn't approve of, I do acknowledge that he was operating under good intentions, even if his attitude was more than a little brusk.

But I don't like to villify the guy too much. I was rather shocked when he commented on my somewhat critical review of Fugitoid #1 and was very polite and insightful. I had always thought that, if he should ever stumble upon my tiny little blog and deign to comment, it would be something vitriolic and aggressive. But he did and it wasn't. The experience caused me to rethink my view of Laird as a person, anyway.

But whether Laird and Eastman ever "make up" is their personal business and none of mine. If they never work together again, I'll understand. We've already seen what Laird's solo vision for the Turtles is like over the past ten years. I'm ready to see what some other creative minds can do.

08-20-2011, 12:34 AM	#2
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	Part of me wonders if Kevin sees the potential of those characters. Sure they were created for the "cheesy" kids show, but in the right hands, they could be more. Never discount a character because of their origin...but IDK. Maybe we should ask Kevin. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

08-20-2011, 01:58 AM	#9
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	Peter tends to view what happened to turtles outside of the comics as complete rape. He basically sold his soul and it's obvious he regrets it now. The turtles he made are not what's well known, some goofy pizza eating surfers are. Kevin seems to be able to make a separation of things. I think overall he takes turtles less seriously, Bodycount clued us in on that, and in doing so views the franchise like any other. Is turtles really any different then Batman or Spider-man? They've all had good and bad TV shows, both animated and live action. They've had embarrassing live stage performances and spent years being treated less serious then they were meant to be because of past media portrayal. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

08-20-2011, 02:51 AM	#11
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	I agree with Spitfire and Mr. Reilly. It seems that Kevin is a little more laid back in general, and sees the Turtles as fun characters to tell fun stories with. Peter seems more reserved (uptight, if you will) and he treated the Turtles very seriously, it seemed. Maybe Kevin's distance from the Turtles until recently made him excited to work with these characters he enjoys again. It's odd that once Peter relinquished the property, Kevin came back. Is it a coincidence, or do you think Kevin didn't feel like he could tell the stories he wanted with Peter's hands heavy on the reins? EDIT: It's odd typing Kevin so much...that's my name... __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

08-20-2011, 02:51 AM	#12
Abnormal Freak Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: MN Posts: 779	Kevin's more fun. :p __________________

08-20-2011, 08:58 AM	#15
King Suck Foot Soldier Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 167	Peter is very controlling and Mirage purist in his views on his co creation. That has had both its good and bad results over the years. I think some of wolfs characters can be updated and incorporated into IDWs new TMNT and if done right will come off awesome (please no female turtle though) When Peter sold the property I was really pissed at him. After reading his explanation where he discussed his mental health not so much. IDW offered Peter a chance to be involved in the new TMNT and he declined. Now after reading his blog where he said he he would be involved if Kevin asked him to be directly I feel sorry for him more then anything. Guy needs a hug. I do secretly hope Peter and Kevin will work on TMNT together again someday. But if they dont I hope seeing what IDW does with his turtles relights his creative spark or puts the fire under Peters ass and makes him do his own thing again (His deal with Viacom allows him to Publish something like 18 issues under Mirage a year).

08-20-2011, 12:13 AM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,899	Why isn't Kevin as opposed to Fred Wolf characters like Peter is? PL has made his dislike for most of the Fred Wolf characters many, many times. He of course prevented the 4kids writers from using them in the cartoon, and would not allow any of them to appear in the Mirage comics either. (although Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady got a brief cameo in one of the Cowboys of Moo Mesa issues...) Kevin Eastman on the other hand actually seems open to the idea of old Fred Wolf characters. He's never shown any real obvious disdain for the cartoons (as far as I know), and he even approved of a female turtle, something Peter would never do. Likewise now that we know Krang is appearing in the IDW series, which Kevin is co-writing, you really have to wonder. Why doesn't Kevin Eastman oppose the old mutant characters or Fred Wolf characters like PL does?

08-20-2011, 12:45 AM	#4
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,956	Kevin sees the Turtles for what they are; a global phenomenon that is popular no matter what. He's obviously very opened minded, and is probably straight up flattered that people want to do so many different things with his creation. Pete has (as of the last decade at least) seemed to think of them as his sole property that should only be done his way, and any non-Mirage version should be swept away. Peter = AndrewNDB lulz (Just poking fun at ya buddy)

08-20-2011, 01:03 AM	#5
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,120	Kevin isn't an ass.

08-20-2011, 01:12 AM	#8
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,398	I think Eastman is simply a more open-minded individual.

08-20-2011, 02:45 AM	#10
Slap-Happy Bad Boy Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,911	I think Peter takes the turtles way more seriously than Kevin does. It seems to me, that Kevin has love for any and everything turtles related. Including Venus, Next Mutation, etc. Bsically, Kevin hasn't forgotten that the turtles started off as a tounge in cheek parody, while Pete thinks of them as a little more sophisticated.

08-20-2011, 10:06 AM	#16
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Laird still thinks of himself as a legitimate underground indie comics creator and the Turtles as a legitimate underground indie comics title, or at least he did for the last few years before he sold his creation to a multinational corporation for several million dollars. While it was certainly a... noble mindset, it was also a bit delusional. He "sold out" decades ago and there's simply no changing history. Refusing to distribute your comic in major bookstores in order to "keep Mirage small" isn't going to erase the fact that you spent twenty years selling action figures, trapperkeepers and paper napkins with your creation's faces smeared on them to haul in a quick and easy payday of colossal proportions. Whereas Laird was only interested in pleasing fans of "his" Turtles (not allowing Fred Wolf and Archie characters to appear in the 4Kids series, keeping them out of the toyline, etc) and has that strict "my way or the highway, don't like it then don't buy it" mantra, I think Eastman is a far more amicable individual. He understands that there are different sects of the casual and hardcore Turtle fandom and he's no qualms when it comes to trying to please more than just the fans of "his original vision". Whereas Laird would respond to requests with "if you don't like it, scram", Eastman's the kinda guy who'll respond with "lemme see what I can do". Just two very different personalities. I appreciate that, at the very end, Laird relented on his stance and let us have "Turtles Forever". I'm grateful for that. And I'm not of the exaggerated opinion that "if Eastman had bought out Laird instead of the other way around, the streets would be paved with GOLD". However, I didn't care for Laird's years of marginalizing fans of anything other than what he created.

08-20-2011, 11:50 AM	#19
Xav Foot Elite Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,045	As Kevin said in an interview Peter was more of a purist and Kevin has less of an attachment to the Turtles than he did.

08-20-2011, 11:57 AM	#20
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	In regards to the perception of Laird being a "dick" or such, well, he's definately a guy with a very aggressive and critical personality. He doesn't mince words, he doesn't hide what he thinks beneath a masque of subtlety and he doesn't have patience for pleasantries. I think Laird's always been that way. Steve Murphy tells the story of how he was considering quitting Mirage because of the pressure coming down on him from Victor Gorelick. He went to Laird looking for a sympathetic ear and what he got was a "don't let the door hit you on the way out". Laird's a guy who has no time for what he perceives as "whining", regardless of circumstances. Those attributes certainly do seem "dickish", but I'm sure they're neccessary for running a global franchise and trying to keep some semblance of creative control over the whole thing. The last ten years or so have definately been Laird trying to steer the franchise back into the direction he wanted rather than let it get away from him like it did in the 80s and early 90s. While I don't appreciate the marginalizing of fans who preferred other concepts from the franchsie that he didn't approve of, I do acknowledge that he was operating under good intentions, even if his attitude was more than a little brusk. But I don't like to villify the guy too much. I was rather shocked when he commented on my somewhat critical review of Fugitoid #1 and was very polite and insightful. I had always thought that, if he should ever stumble upon my tiny little blog and deign to comment, it would be something vitriolic and aggressive. But he did and it wasn't. The experience caused me to rethink my view of Laird as a person, anyway. But whether Laird and Eastman ever "make up" is their personal business and none of mine. If they never work together again, I'll understand. We've already seen what Laird's solo vision for the Turtles is like over the past ten years. I'm ready to see what some other creative minds can do.