Why isn't Kevin as opposed to Fred Wolf characters like Peter is? - Page 2

cloud · 08-20-2011, 06:26 PM

The way I feel is that Kevin seems more open minded with the Turtles. He is the co-creator but also sees it as something he create but not the only thing in his life. He has his Heavy Metal and he's happy with it.
Peter of the other hand still kept his responsibility for the Turtles and Mirage. He still works with the turtles crew and I've always felt that he takes the Turtles very personally which isn't a bad thing. Sometimes I would think if I'm the creator of Batman I would have really restricted him to stay a certain way, no campy TV shows, and no silly armors,etc. Just an example.

I don't think PL hates the Fred Wolf characters but rather just don't feel attached to them as his original creations. Sure you can get a physical appearance of Rocksteady and Bebop for the 4Kids show, they did dressed up Gen to look like Rocksteady and have a assassin to look like Bebop but at the end, it's a different show with a different direction. THere was no need to introduce either Rocksteady or Bebop in the new shop as Shredder's henchmen. The only really to do it would be to please the old toons fans. We all know what happens when you're adding elements to the story just to please the fan demand. (Spider-man3)

I respect both Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman for what they have accomplished, beyond that is just personal decisions from them that I as a fan have no control of.

*CyberCubed* · 08-24-2011, 10:59 AM

Interesting enough Kevin designed the new mutant fox character for IDW.

Have we ever heard Kevin's stance on other mutants existing in the world with the Turtles/Splinter and Leatherhead?

**Jester** · 08-24-2011, 11:47 AM

I dunna, but I actually agree with Peter on the "too many mutants takes away from what makes the turtles unique" issue.

***First of Two Latin Kings*** · 08-24-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I dunna, but I actually agree with Peter on the "too many mutants takes away from what makes the turtles unique" issue.

I don't, because Peter also had aliens populate earth so that the turtles could walk around among people like everyone else.

**Jester** · 08-24-2011, 12:33 PM

True...and I wasn't a huge fan of that either.

*Andrew NDB* · 08-24-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***CJJ***

I don't, because Peter also had aliens populate earth so that the turtles could walk around among people like everyone else.

That was the premise he came up with for Volume 4 to change the status quo. It doesn't represent "How Peter Laird prefers to see the Turtles in earlier times."

***First of Two Latin Kings*** · 08-24-2011, 12:44 PM

Having a girl turtle, or the ability for them to reproduce with other humanoid reptile mutants/aliens would subtract from the uniqueness, not the presence of other mutant animals..."Sons of the Silent Age" comes to mind.

*CyberCubed* · 08-25-2011, 01:01 PM

Anyone notice the double standard? The TMNT can meet aliens, monsters, or "mystical beings," but as long as they're not mutants, than the Turtles are still special.

Honestly, how does that make any sense? How many freaks have their been in the TMNT universe that weren't mutants?

*gobo* · 09-07-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why isn't Kevin as opposed to Fred Wolf characters like Peter is?

Cuz watering down the concept for the sake of longevity was just something Kevin was always more comfortable with.

*Donnie* · 09-07-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

cuz watering down the concept for the sake of longevity was just something kevin was always more comfortable with.

Quoted for truth!

herugrim · 09-07-2011, 12:06 PM

As I continue to watch the 03 series and read the old comics, I've found it interesting just how similar they are. At first I kinda thought 'Hey, I guess Peter really wanted them to stick to the script.' but upon reading the notes he'd written about the individual episodes from when he originally reviewed them, it seems he really didn't do that. Apparently it was the desire of the studio to basically make the series an animated adaption of the comics. Peter actually seems to make insightful feedback for the episodes and definitely kept certain episodes from getting too bad. Overall, I recognize that his control was very good for the series, however long it may have lasted (hard to believe he had any feedback on the last few seasons).

I can't blame the guy for being passionate about the series. Generally I'd consider it a good thing. However suggesting that he didn't hate the 87 series is just not true. If you read some of his more aggressive notes from the 03 series, he practically uses Fred Wolf's name as a swear. Dude hated it, and apparently blamed Wolf for it personally.

Personally I never understood purists. Fans love to quote source materials like bibles and diviations as strickly the worst thing that could possibly be done. However just because a movie is based on a novel doesn't mean that the novel no longer exists. It's just a different version, allowing fans to be able to enjoy each in their own way. Fans who prefer one over the other will always have whichever version they prefer. People who liked the original comics could always go back and read those issues, while watching films and television shows that adapt that story without altering it seem redundant to me. How many times must I watch that rooftop battle with shredder play out?

twopinacoladas · 09-07-2011, 04:55 PM

My guess is IDW and Nick are calling the shots and Kevin is just happy to be a part of it and help make it as good as he can... maybe he didn't mind some of the old characers as much as Pete...

Toby Barrett · 09-07-2011, 05:27 PM

I'm in the camp that feels bringing more mutants into the mix doesn't really ruin the concept of the TMNT.
Sure, in the Mirage comics it was a freak accident and effects the creature through a large timespan, so the same process happening over and over again wouldn't really work that well.
But in the 80s toon, Archie comics, and now the IDW series, where mutagen and the mutation process is more easy to accomplish, why the heck not? The turtles fighting punks and ninjas are great, but now and again it's great to see them fighting other freaks of nature as well. Loves me some Tokka and Rahzar.
And really, the turtles were fighting aliens and monsters all the time in the more serious versions of the franchise. That really isn't much different from fighting other mutants.

*CyberCubed* · 11-30-2011, 09:15 PM

My only problem with the Archie series is it felt like there was a new mutant introduced in almost every issue. Some of them were pointless like Chameleon and even Scumbug/Wyrm who served little to no point in "filler" stories.

Then there was that 4-armed tiger guy and the Al'Falqa bird who were just animal beings for no reasons. Even guys who didn't need to be animals, like Chein Khan, were just made into animals for the sake of it.

It actually got kinda ridiculous after a while.

*ssjup81* · 11-30-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

My only problem with the Archie series is it felt like there was a new mutant introduced in almost every issue. Some of them were pointless like Chameleon and even Scumbug/Wyrm who served little to no point in "filler" stories.

Then there was that 4-armed tiger guy and the Al'Falqa bird who were just animal beings for no reasons. Even guys who didn't need to be animals, like Chein Khan, were just made into animals for the sake of it.

It actually got kinda ridiculous after a while.

I agree with this. This is why I wasn't a fan of the whole Mutanimal thing. I felt that Archie definitely had way too many mutant characters. Ironically, seems the original cartoon series didn't, unless those characters in the Red Sky arc counted that were around for a bit...oh, and Carter. But anywho, yeah...Archie definitely had way too many mutant characters. I could barely keep up with them.

I wonder what Kevin thought about Archie's take on the franchise.

*Andrew NDB* · 11-30-2011, 09:57 PM

The Mutanimal thing had its heart in the right place, though. Would be interesting to see such a thing now, reconceptualized into like a... DC Vertigo sort of way.

*CyberCubed* · 11-30-2011, 10:49 PM

I was fine with the Mutanimals, I mean all the "extra" mutants:

- Chameleon
- Scumbug and Wyrm
- The Wooly Mammoth Caveman
- The Uncanny Trio
- Chein Khan (why couldn't he just stay human?)
- 4 armed Tiger
- Llama
- Al' Falqa
- Vid Vicious (does he even count?)

Of course we got some awesome ones, Armaggon and Verminator X were the best new mutants. I also loved Merdude, Slash and the regular Mutanimals.

As you read through the Archie series, almost every major story arc brings forth a new mutant.

twopinacoladas · 12-01-2011, 10:07 PM

Edit: I totally didn't remember making my previous post, but it probably sums it up better, so no to waste any ones time reading my little rant. Select + delete

*Andrew NDB* · 12-01-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twopinacoladas

My guess is IDW and Nick are calling the shots and Kevin is just happy to be a part of it and help make it as good as he can... maybe he didn't mind some of the old characers as much as Pete...

... or maybe he did and is just so much of a class act and, as others have pointed out, is so enthused to be a part of things going forward that he's more than willing to roll with things no matter how the chips fall and cards are laid out.

~~Vegita-San~~ · 12-06-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Peter tends to view what happened to turtles outside of the comics as complete rape. He basically sold his soul and it's obvious he regrets it now. The turtles he made are not what's well known, some goofy pizza eating surfers are.
.

+1 on this. This is how I always felt as well..He created something that was marginally successful, but it took someone else re-imagining of the idea for it to really take off... That, combined with how many hours and hours of frustration in dealing with Fred Wolf (who was rumored to rule with an iron fist and ignored just about everyone), would leave anyone bitter about the whole experience..

But, We also owe Peter a whole hell of a lot for giving us the coolest ever 4Kids show. As much as I love the original series, lets face it.. the new show was a 100 times better... Have you ever read some of the script proposals for the series on his blog? We have Pete to thank for keeping some kind of quality control on the series....and the characters in check.

I must have missed where Krang himself (not General Krang, a possible human character) is going to be in IDW.. where was this confirmed?

08-24-2011, 11:47 AM	#23
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	I dunna, but I actually agree with Peter on the "too many mutants takes away from what makes the turtles unique" issue. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

08-24-2011, 12:33 PM	#25
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	True...and I wasn't a huge fan of that either. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-07-2011, 04:55 PM	#32
twopinacoladas Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 717	My guess is IDW and Nick are calling the shots and Kevin is just happy to be a part of it and help make it as good as he can... maybe he didn't mind some of the old characers as much as Pete... __________________ www.rj3d.com www.itstimetosplit.com

11-30-2011, 09:57 PM	#36
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,594	The Mutanimal thing had its heart in the right place, though. Would be interesting to see such a thing now, reconceptualized into like a... DC Vertigo sort of way. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

12-01-2011, 10:07 PM	#38
twopinacoladas Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 717	Edit: I totally didn't remember making my previous post, but it probably sums it up better, so no to waste any ones time reading my little rant. Select + delete __________________ www.rj3d.com www.itstimetosplit.com

08-20-2011, 06:26 PM	#21
cloud Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 738	The way I feel is that Kevin seems more open minded with the Turtles. He is the co-creator but also sees it as something he create but not the only thing in his life. He has his Heavy Metal and he's happy with it. Peter of the other hand still kept his responsibility for the Turtles and Mirage. He still works with the turtles crew and I've always felt that he takes the Turtles very personally which isn't a bad thing. Sometimes I would think if I'm the creator of Batman I would have really restricted him to stay a certain way, no campy TV shows, and no silly armors,etc. Just an example. I don't think PL hates the Fred Wolf characters but rather just don't feel attached to them as his original creations. Sure you can get a physical appearance of Rocksteady and Bebop for the 4Kids show, they did dressed up Gen to look like Rocksteady and have a assassin to look like Bebop but at the end, it's a different show with a different direction. THere was no need to introduce either Rocksteady or Bebop in the new shop as Shredder's henchmen. The only really to do it would be to please the old toons fans. We all know what happens when you're adding elements to the story just to please the fan demand. (Spider-man3) I respect both Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman for what they have accomplished, beyond that is just personal decisions from them that I as a fan have no control of.

08-24-2011, 10:59 AM	#22
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,899	Interesting enough Kevin designed the new mutant fox character for IDW. Have we ever heard Kevin's stance on other mutants existing in the world with the Turtles/Splinter and Leatherhead?

08-25-2011, 01:01 PM	#28
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,899	Anyone notice the double standard? The TMNT can meet aliens, monsters, or "mystical beings," but as long as they're not mutants, than the Turtles are still special. Honestly, how does that make any sense? How many freaks have their been in the TMNT universe that weren't mutants?

09-07-2011, 12:06 PM	#31
herugrim Random Punk Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Pennsylvania, US Posts: 40	As I continue to watch the 03 series and read the old comics, I've found it interesting just how similar they are. At first I kinda thought 'Hey, I guess Peter really wanted them to stick to the script.' but upon reading the notes he'd written about the individual episodes from when he originally reviewed them, it seems he really didn't do that. Apparently it was the desire of the studio to basically make the series an animated adaption of the comics. Peter actually seems to make insightful feedback for the episodes and definitely kept certain episodes from getting too bad. Overall, I recognize that his control was very good for the series, however long it may have lasted (hard to believe he had any feedback on the last few seasons). I can't blame the guy for being passionate about the series. Generally I'd consider it a good thing. However suggesting that he didn't hate the 87 series is just not true. If you read some of his more aggressive notes from the 03 series, he practically uses Fred Wolf's name as a swear. Dude hated it, and apparently blamed Wolf for it personally. Personally I never understood purists. Fans love to quote source materials like bibles and diviations as strickly the worst thing that could possibly be done. However just because a movie is based on a novel doesn't mean that the novel no longer exists. It's just a different version, allowing fans to be able to enjoy each in their own way. Fans who prefer one over the other will always have whichever version they prefer. People who liked the original comics could always go back and read those issues, while watching films and television shows that adapt that story without altering it seem redundant to me. How many times must I watch that rooftop battle with shredder play out?

09-07-2011, 05:27 PM	#33
Toby Barrett Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 946	I'm in the camp that feels bringing more mutants into the mix doesn't really ruin the concept of the TMNT. Sure, in the Mirage comics it was a freak accident and effects the creature through a large timespan, so the same process happening over and over again wouldn't really work that well. But in the 80s toon, Archie comics, and now the IDW series, where mutagen and the mutation process is more easy to accomplish, why the heck not? The turtles fighting punks and ninjas are great, but now and again it's great to see them fighting other freaks of nature as well. Loves me some Tokka and Rahzar. And really, the turtles were fighting aliens and monsters all the time in the more serious versions of the franchise. That really isn't much different from fighting other mutants.

11-30-2011, 09:15 PM	#34
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,899	My only problem with the Archie series is it felt like there was a new mutant introduced in almost every issue. Some of them were pointless like Chameleon and even Scumbug/Wyrm who served little to no point in "filler" stories. Then there was that 4-armed tiger guy and the Al'Falqa bird who were just animal beings for no reasons. Even guys who didn't need to be animals, like Chein Khan, were just made into animals for the sake of it. It actually got kinda ridiculous after a while.

11-30-2011, 10:49 PM	#37
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,899	I was fine with the Mutanimals, I mean all the "extra" mutants: - Chameleon - Scumbug and Wyrm - The Wooly Mammoth Caveman - The Uncanny Trio - Chein Khan (why couldn't he just stay human?) - 4 armed Tiger - Llama - Al' Falqa - Vid Vicious (does he even count?) Of course we got some awesome ones, Armaggon and Verminator X were the best new mutants. I also loved Merdude, Slash and the regular Mutanimals. As you read through the Archie series, almost every major story arc brings forth a new mutant.