What retooling more critically affected each series? Red Sky or Fast Forward?

*pannoni1* · 09-12-2011, 09:10 AM

Red Sky and Fast Forward both marked sudden paradigm shifts for each series; the main differences being Red Sky marked a transition from light to dark (though Season 7 shows some hints of this), and Fast Forward goes from dark to light. Both often considered "jump the shark" moments for each series, they came at a time when the creators were desparate for each series to get back on its feet, but ultimately fails to a degree. Still, I believe Fast Forward was much more critical in affecting the 4Kids series; not only is there a dark to light paradigm shift, but there is also a semi-permanent time switch, which eliminates most of the primary supporting characters outside of the turtles and I feel that the shift was "too abrupt". At least with Red Sky, you still have the same villians (even if some new characters or new mutations are introduced), and continues to take place in a present-day universe.

*CyberCubed* · 09-12-2011, 09:41 AM

"Red Sky" was the same exact show as before, just with better animation. Sure, Lord Dregg eventually replaced Shredder, but that's it. Also I've never heard anyone say the show "jumped the shark" when Season 8 happened, that's quite ridiculous.

Fast Forward was obviously completely different than what came before, and took place in a different world entirely for that show.

*Icebot* · 09-12-2011, 06:10 PM

Fast Forward for sure. Red Sky was never named an official subtitle. Fast Forward was. And in Fast Forward, the turtles had a different home but in Red Sky, the turtles were in the same lair.

*Roseangelo* · 09-12-2011, 06:14 PM

"Red Sky" was an attempt to adapt the show to better compete with the other action cartoons of the time. Fast Forward was just cheap and crappy.

**Jester** · 09-12-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

"Red Sky" was an attempt to adapt the show to better compete with the other action cartoons of the time. Fast Forward was just cheap and crappy.

Indeed...and sadly which one do you still think Peter would prefer. I really wish I knew what his major malfunction regarding the FW series is. Is it the "bastardization" of his original concept? Is it the fact that his original creation is an after thought to most people who think of the Ninja Turtles?

I think the Red Sky was a drastic change, only because the series had already drastically changed earlier. The pilot is closer to Red Sky than other in between seasons. >> (I'll use this abbreviation, and there's nothing you can do about it...

) took a tonally consistent show and gave it almost a 180. Sure there were some strong stories in >>, and sadly some of them never came to light, but for the most part, it was 4kids attempt, in my eyes, to catch the FW fire in a bottle....and it failed.

*oldmanwinters* · 09-12-2011, 06:26 PM

I will confess... I enjoyed Fast Forward (especially the latter half of the season) more than I enjoyed "Red Sky." I won't try to make any objective statement about relative quality, I just know how I feel.

*CyberCubed* · 09-12-2011, 06:34 PM

FF had some great episodes the only problem is the whole show was clearly toned down from what came before.

How ironic that the original cartoon became darker as it progressed while the 4kids series became lighter. It's like both shows went in opposite directions from how they started.

**Jester** · 09-12-2011, 06:42 PM

I just wish that the "Red Sky" seasons could have been tonally about the same as season 7. It was more serious in its stories, but still kept the same basic style of the previous seasons.

*oldmanwinters* · 09-12-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I just wish that the "Red Sky" seasons could have been tonally about the same as season 7. It was more serious in its stories, but still kept the same basic style of the previous seasons.

This would have been ideal for me too. Oh... and no Carter. Well... maybe as a guest character with a better mutant form.

~~ABrown~~ · 09-13-2011, 08:57 AM

The original cartoon absolutely had to change to the "red sky" style in order to continue. I'm actually kinda surprised that the show lasted until 1993 with the older style.

The 2003 cartoon is a completely different story. I wonder how much of a necessity it was to have the style changed. I've read that the style was changed to try to bring in viewers. Were the ratings not very good? I just don't know. The Fast Forward episodes really aren't that bad. And the fact that the fifth season did eventually make its way to tv and dvd makes it even more acceptable. Also, having the show make it to over 100 episodes before switching over to the Fast Forward style is a third reason that I'm ok with the style being changed. It's not as though Fast Forward showed up after season two or three. Then I would've really been upset.

*Sage Ninja* · 09-13-2011, 10:54 PM

I can tolerate Red Sky, not when I was younger when it first came out but now I can. Maybe in several years I can tolerate Fast Foward.

View Poll Results: What was the bigger shift for each series?
Red Sky (1987 series)	0	0%
Fast Forward (2003 series)	7	100.00%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2011, 09:10 AM	#1
pannoni1 Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: USA Posts: 3,447	What retooling more critically affected each series? Red Sky or Fast Forward? Red Sky and Fast Forward both marked sudden paradigm shifts for each series; the main differences being Red Sky marked a transition from light to dark (though Season 7 shows some hints of this), and Fast Forward goes from dark to light. Both often considered "jump the shark" moments for each series, they came at a time when the creators were desparate for each series to get back on its feet, but ultimately fails to a degree. Still, I believe Fast Forward was much more critical in affecting the 4Kids series; not only is there a dark to light paradigm shift, but there is also a semi-permanent time switch, which eliminates most of the primary supporting characters outside of the turtles and I feel that the shift was "too abrupt". At least with Red Sky, you still have the same villians (even if some new characters or new mutations are introduced), and continues to take place in a present-day universe. __________________ http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...d.php?t=37065- MY WANT LIST TMNT FAN CLUB LINK: http://sot.ag/gCjK/ 30 years of Turtle Power! Last edited by pannoni1; 06-13-2012 at 03:24 PM.

09-12-2011, 06:26 PM	#6
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,501	I will confess... I enjoyed Fast Forward (especially the latter half of the season) more than I enjoyed "Red Sky." I won't try to make any objective statement about relative quality, I just know how I feel. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

09-12-2011, 06:42 PM	#8
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	I just wish that the "Red Sky" seasons could have been tonally about the same as season 7. It was more serious in its stories, but still kept the same basic style of the previous seasons. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-13-2011, 10:54 PM	#11
Sage Ninja Band of the Hawk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 3,926	I can tolerate Red Sky, not when I was younger when it first came out but now I can. Maybe in several years I can tolerate Fast Foward. __________________ Cassandra: You won't fight me, but will you fight--for him! Cassandra's Revenge ~Tangled the Series ________________________________ http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/ _______________________________ http://nox-artemis.tumblr.com/post/4...k-and-feminism

09-12-2011, 09:41 AM	#2
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,880	"Red Sky" was the same exact show as before, just with better animation. Sure, Lord Dregg eventually replaced Shredder, but that's it. Also I've never heard anyone say the show "jumped the shark" when Season 8 happened, that's quite ridiculous. Fast Forward was obviously completely different than what came before, and took place in a different world entirely for that show.

09-12-2011, 06:10 PM	#3
Icebot Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 3,225	Fast Forward for sure. Red Sky was never named an official subtitle. Fast Forward was. And in Fast Forward, the turtles had a different home but in Red Sky, the turtles were in the same lair.

09-12-2011, 06:14 PM	#4
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	"Red Sky" was an attempt to adapt the show to better compete with the other action cartoons of the time. Fast Forward was just cheap and crappy.

09-12-2011, 06:34 PM	#7
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,880	FF had some great episodes the only problem is the whole show was clearly toned down from what came before. How ironic that the original cartoon became darker as it progressed while the 4kids series became lighter. It's like both shows went in opposite directions from how they started.

09-13-2011, 08:57 AM	#10
~~ABrown~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,831	The original cartoon absolutely had to change to the "red sky" style in order to continue. I'm actually kinda surprised that the show lasted until 1993 with the older style. The 2003 cartoon is a completely different story. I wonder how much of a necessity it was to have the style changed. I've read that the style was changed to try to bring in viewers. Were the ratings not very good? I just don't know. The Fast Forward episodes really aren't that bad. And the fact that the fifth season did eventually make its way to tv and dvd makes it even more acceptable. Also, having the show make it to over 100 episodes before switching over to the Fast Forward style is a third reason that I'm ok with the style being changed. It's not as though Fast Forward showed up after season two or three. Then I would've really been upset.