Should I go back and re-watch the original series or...

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I still love the old show but I find much of its humor very dated and juvenile. Some of the dialog, especially, you can just tell they were like "We have no idea what they should say here so let's have a forced pun or a pizza joke".

I can think of many '80s/'90s cartoons shows that fit that label, but I never feel like OT is one of them. In fact very few jokes feel dated at all. Or for that matter, specific to the '80s. They did jokes you would have heard years before and would still hear today. And puns are deceptively simple but are in fact quite challenging to create.

And if we want to talk about juvenile, that's the vibe I get when watching the 2k3. It's like a kiddie show pretending it's grown up (again, chasing Batman: The Animated Series' success). Whereas the OT felt like it was clearly written by grown ups challenging kids to understand adult humor and references.

I'm conditioned to think that no matter how silly the audience finds the scenario or the premise, the characters involved need to play it somewhat straight or the drama falls out completely.

The OT was satirizing your typical action cartoon, that what I think fans don't realize. It's not that they're not playing it straight, it's that they're picking apart the quirks of your standard action plot, which frankly often does take itself too seriously.

[ZariusTwo]

I find the humour in 2003 to be not just dated...but also stuff that real life adolescents just wouldnt say if their life depended on them.

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I find the humour in 2003 to be not just dated...but also stuff that real life adolescents just wouldnt say if their life depended on them.

Exactly, 2k3 sometimes felt like those caricatures of the All American teenager which can often get really painful to watch on any show, lol.

Now are the OT turtles always believable as teenagers? No, lol. They do tend to sound more like snarky 20 or 30 year olds, lol. But they do have a clear rebellious, free spirited nature about them very much associated with youth.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by Leo656

For me, the action in 2k3 puts it over. As others have said, it was one of the best action cartoons of the last 10+ years. I like my characters to kick ass, so between Justice League, TMNT and He-Man I had a lot to be happy about back in 2k3.

Completely agree. Talk about a golden age for action cartoons. And then you throw in Teen Titans and the MTV Spiderman. Lots of great cartoons.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Leo656

After the first two seasons up until the very end, it wasn't necessary to watch episodes in a specific order to follow the show anymore.

Except if you wanted to know how the Technodrome ended up at various places.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Completely agree. Talk about a golden age for action cartoons. And then you throw in Teen Titans and the MTV Spiderman. Lots of great cartoons.

The MTV Spider-Man was awful

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The MTV Spider-Man was awful

Yeah I have to say for me the golden age of action cartoons was a few years earlier than 2003.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

While talking about all pizza jojes, I think it's time to talk some more serious episodes of the 1987 cartoon: I would go for:

*Raphael VS the Volcano (life-death)
*Shredderville (feeling unnessesary, totalitarian government)
*Splinter No More (here's a lot of political issues, not politics like parties, more how they fear different, how humans threat each other)

I don't think "Poor Little Rich Turtle" should be here. Buffy Shelhammer was stripped on her childhood because of the company and was now a teen, the story was never told with the same serious tone (unhappy rich kids is a popular culture stock character).

How about "Elementary, My Dear Turtle"? When Professor Moriaty rules his timeline, he's adored by a lot of people when the automobile is on the streets. Reminds of some others governments?

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

*Shredderville (feeling unnessesary, totalitarian government)

It was pretty creepy how April and Irma end up as harem girls, but certainly in many dictatorships it's the women who suffer the most.

And I loved how even Shredder doesn't enjoy being the ruler. It makes total sense for his character. He just wanted power, which he felt meant getting other people to do the paper work for him, lol.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The MTV Spider-Man was awful

See I'm not even a Spiderman fan, but I really liked that cartoon. It was from Mainframe, creators of the great Beast Wars/Beast Machines cartoon.

Originally Posted by Herald7

Yeah I have to say for me the golden age of action cartoons was a few years earlier than 2003.

I just think that it's impressive that the 2003 cartoon made it through seven seasons with all of the competition that it had. The original cartoon was pretty much the only game in town. When the show started, pretty much all of the 80's toy commercial cartoons were either done, or about to be done. And the DC Animated Universe shows didn't start up until about 1992. So there was a good five years or so where the original TMNT cartoon had virtually no competition. What action cartoon did the original toon have to compete with? The DIC GI Joe series?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Herald7

It was pretty creepy how April and Irma end up as harem girls, but certainly in many dictatorships it's the women who suffer the most.

And I loved how even Shredder doesn't enjoy being the ruler. It makes total sense for his character. He just wanted power, which he felt meant getting other people to do the paper work for him, lol.

I also like how Shredder blames problems on mutants, to avoid people noticing that Shredder himself is the real bad-ass in town. After all, so many totalitarian government throughout history have carried out this.

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

I also like how Shredder blames problems on mutants, to avoid people noticing that Shredder himself is the real bad-ass in town. After all, so many totalitarian government throughout history have carried out this.

Oh absolutely, using fear of difference as a way of winning over and deluding the population. A pretty sinister concept for a cartoon to tackle!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ABrown

See I'm not even a Spiderman fan, but I really liked that cartoon. It was from Mainframe, creators of the great Beast Wars/Beast Machines cartoon.



I just think that it's impressive that the 2003 cartoon made it through seven seasons with all of the competition that it had. The original cartoon was pretty much the only game in town. When the show started, pretty much all of the 80's toy commercial cartoons were either done, or about to be done. And the DC Animated Universe shows didn't start up until about 1992. So there was a good five years or so where the original TMNT cartoon had virtually no competition. What action cartoon did the original toon have to compete with? The DIC GI Joe series?

I would see "Power Rangers" and "Simpsons" as main competors, even if Power Rangers is not a cartoon, and Simpsons is not just an action cartoon, but the 1987 TMNT cartoon is like a mix of action, science fiction and comedy cartoons.

It was some "New Adventures of He-Man" action cartoon in the early 1990's.

[Leo656]

I'm gonna agree that the 2K3 Turtles didn't talk like teenagers, but I never thought they really did in any other medium, either. In fact, it's annoying how often teenagers in fictional media are given personalities that don't much resemble reality, but eh, whattyagonnado?

I rewatched the New Adventures of He-Man series not too long ago, and it was better than I remembered. I totally didn't remember, and didn't care for, the way they changed Skeletor's personality to be almost more like Jack Nicholson's Joker, in fact I swear I read that was a direct reference they were going for The show also tried to be too much like Star Wars, and I hated how when they would bring back a character like Teela they looked unrecognizable, but other than that it was more enjoyable than I remembered. I hated lotsa stuff as a kid that I'm really into now.

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'm gonna agree that the 2K3 Turtles didn't talk like teenagers, but I never thought they really did in any other medium, either.

Right like I said I don't think they particularly came across like teens in either show. But whereas I like the OT's attempts, I found 2k3's kind of grating.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Ben10 and Teen Titans is actually a fun kiddie action adventure series too.

[Leo656]

I always did imagine them being slightly older in 2k3 than the old show. Like they were 14/15 in the old show and 16/18 in the 2k3 show. Not because of anything really, just how I'd see them in my mind. Mikey always seems the youngest in every medium. They're probably all the same age but it seems like Mikey's slightly behind the others in development.

It never bothered me too much when the TMNT act too mature to be teenagers because I never really stayed in line with people my own age either, I always hung out with people a few years older, and for the longest time I just thought everyone did that. I pretty much have no idea what teenagers generally act like.

[CyberCubed]

I will say this:

When the original cartoon was good, it was REALLY good. I have never been so entertained watching a kids show as watching the better episodes of the original cartoon.

The chemistry between the main cast and villains was amazing. The 4 Turtles, Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady and the Channel 6 news crew all had amazing chemistry with each other. And then when they all mixed up and interacted with the separate groups, it was just as good.

In any other series, I would have found characters like Vernon and Irma to be annoying and a waste of time. But in the original cartoon, they were hilarious and it wouldn't be the same without them. David Wise really knew how to make the Channel 6 news crew work.

[Leo656]

Yeah it's insane how many recurring characters that show had that were memorable. They had a really great ensemble cast, in any given epsiode you could risk it being crowded, especially when the Neutrinos or the frogs would show up, with all the good and bad guys plus April and Irma you could have like 12 characters to juggle at once, but they did a good job of giving everyone just enough to do without it seeming bloated.

[Herald7]

I pretty much have no idea what teenagers generally act like.

Well I mean maybe we're not being fair. After all the turtles' lives are anything but the typical teenage experience, lol. They had to grow up and take on a lot of responsibility pretty quickly.

Actually the one time I really believed they were teenagers on the OT was when Leonardo becomes the carefree slacker in "Leonardo Lightens Up." Especially when Splinter comes in at the end and sort of becomes the father figure knowing how to humor him, lol. So I guess a lot of it is just the situations they're in.

In any other series, I would have found characters like Vernon and Irma to be annoying and a waste of time. But in the original cartoon, they were hilarious and it wouldn't be the same without them. David Wise really knew how to make the Channel 6 news crew work.

Exactly the Channel 6 group added such a sense of realism to the show as far as grown ups in the real world and all the politics of a work environment.