Should I go back and re-watch the original series or...

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Ben10 and Teen Titans is actually a fun kiddie action adventure series too.

Teen Titans crossed a lot of adult lines despite being for kids. Raven was practically raped in the fourth season's "Birthmark".

[CyberCubed]

I honestly wish the old series went on a few more years. If Pokemon, Power Rangers etc. could all go on over 15 seasons and counting I feel TMNT could have been the same.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Teen Titans crossed a lot of adult lines despite being for kids. Raven was practically raped in the fourth season's "Birthmark".

Well, that, and we have their wacky adventures such as the time they're trapped in a TV world or Robin reluctantly takes a villain's daughter to a prom while his love interest is seething at the sidelines. That's the thing... that show managed to find balance between funny and serious.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Well, that, and we have their wacky adventures such as the time they're trapped in a TV world or Robin reluctantly takes a villain's daughter to a prom while his love interest is seething at the sidelines. That's the thing... that show managed to find balance between funny and serious.

Oh yes, very. I loved that they did that, but when it could be, it was much darker than the DCAU ever was.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I honestly wish the old series went on a few more years. If Pokemon, Power Rangers etc. could all go on over 15 seasons and counting I feel TMNT could have been the same.

I have no idea how Pokemon stays on the air, it's lead character doesnt age, he doesnt win any big tournament, he doesnt get closure on several of his rivalries, and he's never had an interesting releationship. I also find it hard to beleive he's saved the planet multiple times from ancient Pokemon and never gotten any recognition for it. I'm probably being a nit-picker about it though, but TMNT and Power Rangers at least can claim they've moved forward in all the time they've been on air.

[Falconhood]

yep! I have! Since December wiped me out, I blew off some old VHS Tapes and have really enjoyed the early days of TMNT!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Herald7

OK I did check out "Same As it Never Was." Well first off it's just hard for me to get past the 2k3 turtles, they're bland, I just don't like them, lol. I mean every now and then I liked them, but then the dialogue would ruin it. And those "what the shell" lines, and people say the OT was cheesy? I mean the Smurfs' joke was funnier than that!

My biggest problem with the 2003 show is episodes where a lot of strange monsters (like dragons) show up. But absolutely noone is eaten...

I prefer episodes when they face bad guys in town, or the Massachusetts farm (which I would like to see in the 1987 cartoon). I also didn't like Utrom Shredder, science fiction stories are better told with Krang, who could be more like Archie Krang.

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

My biggest problem with the 2003 show is episodes where a lot of strange monsters (like dragons) show up. But absolutely noone is eaten...

True, kind of a missed opportunity there, lol.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

I also didn't like Utrom Shredder

Believe me, I'm as much anti Utrom Shredder as anyone. But the creators handled it in a way that it didn't take away from the show's greatness. The third season of the show made me completely accepting of their decision to make Shredder an Utrom. Had season three been more about Shredder's Utrom persona than about his Oroku Saki persona, I definitely could've been completely turned off by the show.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Believe me, I'm as much anti Utrom Shredder as anyone. But the creators handled it in a way that it didn't take away from the show's greatness. The third season of the show made me completely accepting of their decision to make Shredder an Utrom. Had season three been more about Shredder's Utrom persona than about his Oroku Saki persona, I definitely could've been completely turned off by the show.

I don't understand what was the problem with keeping Shredder an ordinary human, and instead bringing Krang to the new show and let him be a bad guy Utrom (more like Archie Krang, who often killed off all life on entire planets in Dimension X). This would let the 2003 show stay more true with the Mirage Comics, but still being open for new stories.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

I don't understand what was the problem with keeping Shredder an ordinary human, and instead bringing Krang to the new show and let him be a bad guy Utrom (more like Archie Krang, who often killed off all life on entire planets in Dimension X). This would let the 2003 show stay more true with the Mirage Comics, but still being open for new stories.

This goes back to the idea that Peter Laird hates the fact the 1987 cartoon went far away from his vision of his creation and does not want to have anything of it resurface while he is in control. He wants as much focus on the Mirage Comics only as possible with new elements that the show creates for itself. That means a large majority of secondary charcters that should pop up like Krang are barred for no good reason. While I can see why of that mindset beyond Baxter The Fly and Technodrome bits its a real shame he didn't like what it has become.

Part of the problem of the Utrom Shredder aside from the fact I don't like the idea of Shredder not being human is the fact as an utrom master criminal it reminds me of Krang who is a master criminal who is derived from the utroms like the series combined Shredder and Krang when in fact they did not subconciously its hard to not think it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

This goes back to the idea that Peter Laird hates the fact the 1987 cartoon went far away from his vision of his creation and does not want to have anything of it resurface while he is in control. He wants as much focus on the Mirage Comics only as possible with new elements that the show creates for itself. That means a large majority of secondary charcters that should pop up like Krang are barred for no good reason. While I can see why of that mindset beyond Baxter The Fly and Technodrome bits its a real shame he didn't like what it has become.

Part of the problem of the Utrom Shredder aside from the fact I don't like the idea of Shredder not being human is the fact as an utrom master criminal it reminds me of Krang who is a master criminal who is derived from the utroms like the series combined Shredder and Krang when in fact they did not subconciously its hard to not think it.

Sad. I don't like the ideas as.
*All Mirage = Good just because it's Mirage
*All 1987 = Bad just because it's 1987

Fly Baxter Stockman doesn't need to appear, but I still dislike even more what they did to 2003 Baxter Stockman (becoming some brain-guy inside a robot, is he the Earth's own Krang or what?).

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

Sad. I don't like the ideas as.
*All Mirage = Good just because it's Mirage
*All 1987 = Bad just because it's 1987

Fly Baxter Stockman doesn't need to appear, but I still dislike even more what they did to 2003 Baxter Stockman (becoming some brain-guy inside a robot, is he the Earth's own Krang or what?).

I mentioned those two things because that is what Peter told me in person were the only two things that he really enjoyed about the show.

Its people's mindset like that that turn me off the Mirage Comics. I admit I am primarily an other media fan. Most of the stuff I grew to love were from the 1987 cartoon. It made me a fan and if its Mirage Comics all the time my interest is limited because most of the more interesting characters didn't appear in the Mirage Comics and if they did the characters didn't get near enough attention like Shredder,Rat King, and Leatherhead. I really like the 2003 cartoon and all but like the 1987 characters better. My main gripe with the 2003 cartoon would be turning Shredder and Rat King non-human and the less than favorable portryal of Michelangelo as well as not bringing back classic characters. I hope IDW and Nick combined can do all of that but time will tell.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

My main gripe with the 2003 cartoon would be turning Shredder and Rat King non-human and the less than favorable portryal of Michelangelo as well as not bringing back classic characters. I hope IDW and Nick combined can do all of that but time will tell.

Is Rat King non-human in Mirage? I like 1987 Rat King best, and after all he's human. Other things I dislike with 2003 is the cyberspace season at the end, and Cyber Shredder. I can stand Tengu Shredder a little bit more (Japanese mysticism).

Karai is a character I like. She should be in the 1987 show, Archie or some movie. The problem with the 1987 Karai would be, where would she go when Shredder meets Krang? She would probably not live in the Technodrome.

2003 Michelangelo is no problem for me.

[MikeandRaph87]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

Is Rat King non-human in Mirage? I like 1987 Rat King best, and after all he's human. Other things I dislike with 2003 is the cyberspace season at the end, and Cyber Shredder. I can stand Tengu Shredder a little bit more (Japanese mysticism).

He is human in the Mirage Comics just like Shredder but the 2003 cartoon made them both non-humans. That irks me because of the lack of humans in TMNT lorei n the first place. Of the three to four Shredder versions in the 2003 cartoon I liked the Tengu Shredder the best. It was also nice to fit Oroku Saki as a human as Shredder in a way. As far as Back To The Sewers goes I was let down by The Shredder War never happening. I was waiting form the season opener that it was in but it never developed. I wanted to see the series go on a few episodes longer for it to occur.

Agent Bishop who experiments with clone bodies to make super soliders and prolong his own life( a contemporary of Andy Jackson) created his imperfect clone in "Bishop's Gambit". The imperfect clone was called The Slayer and after they were defeated and SPlinter was rescued The Slayer was flushed down the sewers and wraped himself in bandages. He was never referred to as The Rat King but was a misunderstood "monster" that the TMNT crossed pathes with and when fighting again they recognized they crossed paths before but were ignorant that it was Agent Bishop's impefect clone called The Slayer.

Karai is a character I like. She should be in the 1987 show, Archie or some movie. The problem with the 1987 Karai would be, where would she go when Shredder meets Krang? She would probably not live in the Technodrome.

Well, she was not introduced until 1993's City At War in Mirage Comics so its possible but not much chance for her to appear. Lotus Blossom is often compared to her because of her skills and questioning her working with the side of evil because honor is the most important thing to her not ot mention relationship with Leonardo. So retroactively she could be the original cartoon's stand in for Karai. We did see Karai in one of the three variants of the Tournament Fighters.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

[QUOTE=mikeandraph87;906346]

He is human in the Mirage Comics just like Shredder but the 2003 cartoon made them both non-humans. That irks me because of the lack of humans in TMNT lorei n the first place. Of the three to four Shredder versions in the 2003 cartoon I liked the Tengu Shredder the best. It was also nice to fit Oroku Saki as a human as Shredder in a way. As far as Back To The Sewers goes I was let down by The Shredder War never happening. I was waiting form the season opener that it was in but it never developed. I wanted to see the series go on a few episodes longer for it to occur.

Agent Bishop who experiments with clone bodies to make super soliders and prolong his own life( a contemporary of Andy Jackson) created his imperfect clone in "Bishop's Gambit". The imperfect clone was called The Slayer and after they were defeated and SPlinter was rescued The Slayer was flushed down the sewers and wraped himself in bandages. He was never referred to as The Rat King but was a misunderstood "monster" that the TMNT crossed pathes with and when fighting again they recognized they crossed paths before but were ignorant that it was Agent Bishop's impefect clone called The Slayer.



Well, she was not introduced until 1993's City At War in Mirage Comics so its possible but not much chance for her to appear. Lotus Blossom is often compared to her because of her skills and questioning her working with the side of evil because honor is the most important thing to her not ot mention relationship with Leonardo. So retroactively she could be the original cartoon's stand in for Karai. We did see Karai in one of the three variants of the Tournament Fighters.

Thanks. I was always confused about Rat King in the Mirage Comics, as he's refered to as "Monster".

And with Karai, maybe she's after all inspired by Lotus instead.

[MikeandRaph87]

[QUOTE=Swedenfan 1982;906489]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

Thanks. I was always confused about Rat King in the Mirage Comics, as he's refered to as "Monster".

I can see that. I can also see why the 4Kids team decided to make him non-human because of the beliefs that he is a savage monster to others even if I detest the idea. He was a man who ended up badly injured in a hospital in NYC yet its not told how he was injured that was given the title of keeper of the rats or something to that effect by a mystical being. There was one for each zodiac animal. The person holds the title until defeated by another who then usurps it unless turned down and given a second chance at their death. I can't find a good synosis of Tales vol.2#35 but here si a good write up form TMNT Enternity on Tales vol.1#4:
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2011/...t-vol-1-4.html

And with Karai, maybe she's after all inspired by Lotus instead.

I asked Dan Berger in email around 2005 a question about Turtlebot and Karai. He replied than it was just a coincidence that Lotus Blossom and Karai have similarities and that instead of inspiration for Karai it may have been subconciously. Turtlebot's simlarities to Metalhead was in the same respect. Metalhead wa not thought of when Turtlebot was created for Leatherhead's debut episode.

[TonySiegel]

I've come to a decision fellow clansmen... I will begin my studies of the various Ninja Turtle cartoon incarnations with the OG cartoon. Hopefully it will not be tarnished because of my age (I remember being a child and recognizing the show's impeccability). Will report back in due time!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

[QUOTE=mikeandraph87;906506]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

I asked Dan Berger in email around 2005 a question about Turtlebot and Karai. He replied than it was just a coincidence that Lotus Blossom and Karai have similarities and that instead of inspiration for Karai it may have been subconciously. Turtlebot's simlarities to Metalhead was in the same respect. Metalhead wa not thought of when Turtlebot was created for Leatherhead's debut episode.

So, if you say Peter Larid disliked a lot of the 1987 show, how can we be sure it's true that Karai or Turtlebot weren't inspired by Lotus and Metalhead from the 1987 cartoon.

Watching City at War in the 2003 show again, I see similairities between the maffia leader and another maffia leader, Big Louie in the 1987 show.

[Powder]

With all due respect to any and all respective creators, a robot turtle & female ninja aren't exactly the most original ideas.
Anybody could've come up with them... They don't have to of been inspired by past works whatsoever.
Don't get me wrong though, I love all of 'em.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

So, if you say Peter Larid disliked a lot of the 1987 show, how can we be sure it's true that Karai or Turtlebot weren't inspired by Lotus and Metalhead from the 1987 cartoon.

Karai doesnt act a BIT like Lotus.

And Laird didnt "dislke" the 87 cartoon, he was quite insistent on that in the letters pages of Volume Four whenever some moron accused him of that.