Spillover of Nick cartoon stuff into IDW comic? - Page 4

*Andrew NDB* · 03-09-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I almost feel like the first entire 10 issues will set the status quo. Considering the Turtles eventually meet April somewhere around issue 10 as well as Shredder debuts, that should finally be it.

I'm skeptical that a great deal more will be firmly established by then. But that's not a dig at IDW TMNT, just what I'd expect given the general piecemeal pacing of things (which in itself is not a flaw, it's just not what we're used to).

Quote:

Its interesting to note that Mirage could tell the entire backstory, have the first Foot and Shredder fight, and debut April/Baxter/Mousers all in the span of 1-2 issues. Even though the page count was higher, it still went much faster back then. Its almost as if in modern comics things need to be slowly shown over time, rather than how it used to be done.

I don't know if I'd say "need to be." They don't need to be. Things today seem to be "written for trade," by choice. You pick up a 5 issue trade paperback of the first 5 issues of TMNT Vol. 1 from Mirage, you get 5 excellent stories. But you get 5 stories. You pick up a trade paperback of the first 5 issues of IDW TMNT, you get one story that's fairly easier to digest off the rack and kind of cliffhangs into the next story. Is that better? I don't think so, I'd be the guy saying "Gimme the 5 excellent ****in' stories," but I can understand the rationale behind it. And if print comics as we know them outside of the graphic novel format go away in the next 5-7 years (a very real possibility), maybe it's just getting ahead of the next curve.

And while I agree it's interesting to note -- I think we all have, in the backs of our heads -- I still say that none of what you point out should necessarily be held against IDW TMNT. If TPTB wanted to, of course they could cut a swath through a ton of what the Mirage TMNT series did, and in similar time, even with less pages.

But why do that? This is not a race. I would argue that with things like the Mirage TMNT in the rearview and the opportunity to create and harvest a new universe, I think the apparent inclination of taking all of these great, defining moments (April meeting the Turtles, for example, the first meeting with Shredder, etc.) and spreading them out more liberally makes a lot more sense than... to use a crude metaphor, IDW similarly shooting their wad all at once.

*CyberCubed* · 03-09-2012, 09:46 AM

Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series.

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did.

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

*Cowabunga Carl* · 03-09-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

I don't agree. I mean if it did get cancelled 20 issues in then at least there are 20 issues of another Turtleverse. We got another look at the TMNT in a different situation, a different interpretation. I don't call that a failure.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-09-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Hob

I don't agree. I mean if it did get cancelled 20 issues in then at least there are 20 issues of another Turtleverse. We got another look at the TMNT in a different situation, a different interpretation. I don't call that a failure.

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

*Jephael* · 03-09-2012, 06:41 PM

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Andrew. If anything that's what being a fan should all about... liking every single iteration of the characters, no matter how campy or cornball it may become! I know you don't care for the kid friendly stuff, but being hooked on just the adult oriented material isn't good either. There needs to be a balance.

azrael · 03-09-2012, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

I think more-so its all about enjoyment of the turtles themselves, much like batman they work in everyway. From goof ball camp to dark gritty assassins. I dont care for the OT (I did when I was little) I bought the first two volumes, didnt enjoy it so I dont support it. I dont think you gotta be an ubber fan to consider it a success. Success is user defined, I may draw a pic that is a success to me but you feel I missed what I was trying to portray. I am hoping the IDW verse stays somewhere in-betweeen 4kids and Mirage/Image

**Jester** · 03-09-2012, 07:34 PM

I understand where Andrew is coming from, and he's right, true fans should have discernment as to what is good and bad aspects of their franchise, but the constant discounting of what many, like it or not, would consider the most successful TMNT offering to date is just old.

*Powder* · 03-09-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jephael

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Andrew. If anything that's what being a fan should all about... liking every single iteration of the characters, no matter how campy or cornball it may become! I know you don't care for the kid friendly stuff, but being hooked on just the adult oriented material isn't good either. There needs to be a balance.

I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Jeff. If anything that's what ruins franchises. People accepting any bullsh*t they get handed allows the companies to lower their quality. I used to have this mentality but I can't go with it anymore. As different as the many versions of the TMNT may be, most if not all of them feel right for what they are. If one comes along and doesn't feel like the turtles to you, you shouldn't have to suck it up. As a "true fan" you should humor everything, try it out, but you shouldn't have to force yourself to like it.

*DrSpengler* · 03-09-2012, 08:01 PM

Yeah, I don't think any fan of a franchise should have their "true fan-ness" (I despise the term "true fan") judged on how much crap they purchase, even if they don't enjoy it.

When it comes to TMNT, I'm mainly only interested in the comics and the cartoons. I don't buy the toys or video games or any other merchandise. I only pay for the cartoons when they hit DVD, and even then, only if they're in sets that appeal to me (chronological seasons, not random best of collections). For the comics, I buy them in singles but not cover variants or trade paperback collections. If a reprint has some bonus material in it, then I'll buy it for that bonus material.

And if something starts to suck, I mean really, really suck, then I stop buying it. At no point should consumers be obligated to purchase a product they don't enjoy and making that decision should have no baring on their "true fan" status.

I stopped buying IDW's Transformers comics when they became terrible, but I'm no less a Transformers fan for it. I stopped watching the 4Kids TMNT cartoon when it became about traveling to Cyberspace to collect Splinter's missing "bits", but I'm no less a TMNT fan for it.

As stated, becoming complacent and buying bad media because you feel you "have to" only encourages companies to release sub-par material.

You talk with your money and that doesn't make you any less of a "true fan".

*oldmanwinters* · 03-09-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I stopped buying IDW's Transformers comics when they became terrible, but I'm no less a Transformers fan for it. I stopped watching the 4Kids TMNT cartoon when it became about traveling to Cyberspace to collect Splinter's missing "bits", but I'm no less a TMNT fan for it.

Ah, com'on, Spengs, I know that you watched most of the BttS season! I remember your comments on all the old episode discussion threads from back in the day!

You're a glutton for punishment!

*DrSpengler* · 03-09-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Ah, com'on, Spengs, I know that you watched most of the BttS season! I remember your comments on all the old episode discussion threads from back in the day!

You're a glutton for punishment!

I think I only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes; I can't quite recall where I dropped off.

That one where Serling goes back in time and becomes a toy the toddler Turtles save from a toy collector?

I can't remember. But the show sucked.

*oldmanwinters* · 03-09-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I think I only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes; I can't quite recall where I dropped off.

That one where Serling goes back in time and becomes a toy the toddler Turtles save from a toy collector?

I can't remember. But the show sucked.

Well... maybe you're right, I went back and skimmed those old threads and the only thing that jumped out at me was that you gave some praise to "Engagement Ring," ep. #4. The series was pretty much downhill after that.

I agree with you about the ridiculousness of the "true fan" concept.

**Jester** · 03-09-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I agree with you about the ridiculousness of the "true fan" concept.

I don't know I was thinking of creating a "You might be a True TMNT Fan..." thread.

*CyberCubed* · 03-09-2012, 09:51 PM

Well so far nobody here has dropped the IDW series, so I guess Tom Waltz is doing his job. The IDW series is shapin up nicely but I can see how the slow pacing might make people eager to get a move on already.

*Jephael* · 03-09-2012, 09:59 PM

I know I've been digging it, though the only thing that kind of irks me is the reincarnation plotline. To me it's sort of a weird way of saying the Turtles were once human. It's one thing to do that with Splinter since those of us who grew up with the cartoon are used to Splinter and Hamato Yoshi being one and the same but the TMNT being his human sons in a past life kinda rubs me the wrong way.

*Cowabunga Carl* · 03-09-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm not so sure that just by the simple virtue of the creation of any old TMNT universe automatically denotes "success."

Unless if just judged by a rabid sort of, "WE MUST BUY AND SUPPORT ALL TMNT PRODUCTS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME! ALL TMNT IS AMAZING!" fan mentality. Which I do see around here from a few people once in a while... but that's pretty embarassing.

I'm not saying it would be considered a success, what I'm saying is at least we will have had a fun look at another take of the TMNT.

There are things about the IDW that bug me. Not everything they have done sits well with me. But mostly it's been a fun ride. I'm looking forward to the next set of micros.

So that is why I wouldn't say it was a failure. To me a failure would be if I wasn't at least entertained by it.

*ToTheNines* · 03-10-2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

That absolutely will not happen. The ongoing, the micros, the Ultimate hardcovers and the TPB have all sold very well so far. TMNT is IDW's best selling product.

Sales numbers will do nothing but rise once the new cartoon comes out, and then do it again if that live-action movie ever gets made.

azrael · 03-10-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series.

If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere.

This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did.

But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

Im not trying to be offensive when I say this but do you always have to be a "nay-sayer?"

TMNT is IDW's highest selling comic, you wont have to worry about it until sales get in the 3-5k selling range.

I am sure IDW will rush the ending to end the series much like DC did with the new 52. As of right now TMNT has held on to IDW's top seller ever since issue 1.

The series is a success in their eyes and if you have been enjoying the series and keep coming back each month then you to must consider it a success.

*CyberCubed* · 03-15-2012, 09:58 PM

TMNT is still young and there is a drop off of readers of any series once the initial newness wears off. The people who stay on for year two either enjoy the book or are big Turtle fans.

Hopefully sales remain stable in the second year instead of what happened to Image.

*Cowabunga Carl* · 03-16-2012, 10:35 AM

The book is a solid read right now. No one knows what will happen down the line in regards to how long it will go. I'd love to see it go for years to come. That's me being optimistic.

But back on topic a little. The more I think about the Nick toon starting up and the comic I could see them bot influencing each other. Maybe the IDW guys make a character the show guys like and likewise the other way. This might not be a bad thing though.

03-09-2012, 06:41 PM	#65
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,142	I can't say I agree with your opinion there, Andrew. If anything that's what being a fan should all about... liking every single iteration of the characters, no matter how campy or cornball it may become! I know you don't care for the kid friendly stuff, but being hooked on just the adult oriented material isn't good either. There needs to be a balance. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

03-09-2012, 07:34 PM	#67
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,293	I understand where Andrew is coming from, and he's right, true fans should have discernment as to what is good and bad aspects of their franchise, but the constant discounting of what many, like it or not, would consider the most successful TMNT offering to date is just old. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

03-09-2012, 09:59 PM	#75
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,142	I know I've been digging it, though the only thing that kind of irks me is the reincarnation plotline. To me it's sort of a weird way of saying the Turtles were once human. It's one thing to do that with Splinter since those of us who grew up with the cartoon are used to Splinter and Hamato Yoshi being one and the same but the TMNT being his human sons in a past life kinda rubs me the wrong way. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

03-09-2012, 09:46 AM	#62
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,721	Yeah, I guess the only problem is wondering how long this series will last. If the series goes on for as long as the Nick era lasts on TV, we might get a 5-7 year run out of the IDW series. If sales really plummet over the next year, we'll have a new universe set-up that ultimately went nowhere. This is the problem with reboots in general, you never know how succesful they'll be. If the IDW series took place in the Mirage universe, then if the book ended, you'd still have extra stories that fit into the old continuity like the Image series did. But since this is an all-new series, it would be far worse if it gets canceled somewhere around 20 issues, because it'll feel like it accomplished nothing.

03-09-2012, 08:01 PM	#69
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Yeah, I don't think any fan of a franchise should have their "true fan-ness" (I despise the term "true fan") judged on how much crap they purchase, even if they don't enjoy it. When it comes to TMNT, I'm mainly only interested in the comics and the cartoons. I don't buy the toys or video games or any other merchandise. I only pay for the cartoons when they hit DVD, and even then, only if they're in sets that appeal to me (chronological seasons, not random best of collections). For the comics, I buy them in singles but not cover variants or trade paperback collections. If a reprint has some bonus material in it, then I'll buy it for that bonus material. And if something starts to suck, I mean really, really suck, then I stop buying it. At no point should consumers be obligated to purchase a product they don't enjoy and making that decision should have no baring on their "true fan" status. I stopped buying IDW's Transformers comics when they became terrible, but I'm no less a Transformers fan for it. I stopped watching the 4Kids TMNT cartoon when it became about traveling to Cyberspace to collect Splinter's missing "bits", but I'm no less a TMNT fan for it. As stated, becoming complacent and buying bad media because you feel you "have to" only encourages companies to release sub-par material. You talk with your money and that doesn't make you any less of a "true fan".

03-09-2012, 09:51 PM	#74
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,721	Well so far nobody here has dropped the IDW series, so I guess Tom Waltz is doing his job. The IDW series is shapin up nicely but I can see how the slow pacing might make people eager to get a move on already.

03-15-2012, 09:58 PM	#79
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,721	TMNT is still young and there is a drop off of readers of any series once the initial newness wears off. The people who stay on for year two either enjoy the book or are big Turtle fans. Hopefully sales remain stable in the second year instead of what happened to Image.

03-16-2012, 10:35 AM	#80
Cowabunga Carl Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,384	The book is a solid read right now. No one knows what will happen down the line in regards to how long it will go. I'd love to see it go for years to come. That's me being optimistic. But back on topic a little. The more I think about the Nick toon starting up and the comic I could see them bot influencing each other. Maybe the IDW guys make a character the show guys like and likewise the other way. This might not be a bad thing though.