Is anyone here upset by "Booyakasha"?

[Mr.Turtle]

how abt "sonic boom"?

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Vincent

The idea that "booyakasha" means "death to the white man" is just a rumor cooked up by racists, just like the idea that "Wu Tang" means "death to the white man". It's a myth. Not true. It may have been used by some people in a similar context, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't mean what you think it means. It means "boom". That's it. It's onomatopoeia, and it is not inherently aimed toward any group of people. "Booyakasha" means "death to the white man" as much as "boom" means "death to the gay man". The fact that there's a terrible song that goes "Boom bye bye Inna batty bwoy head" doesn't mean that the word "boom" is by itself homophobic. Similarly, there is nothing in the word "booyakasha" to suggest any racist message.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought this:

When I read this post.

[Genesis]

Well, you beat me to it, but... yeah. Inigo is my favourite character from The Princess Bride.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

If the word "Boom" was as ambiguous as this, then yes, I think that would be a problem. But as it is NOT, I fail to see how that is a fair comparison.

It quite literally means the same thing, and always has meant the same thing.
I also think you're misusing the word "ambiguous". The word "boom" is in fact very ambiguous out of context, and so is "booyakasha", which is exactly why it is not - or shouldn't be - offensive.
If the word inambiguously meant "I am going to shoot you", then it would be a problem, but the fact is it's just a sound, no different from "boom". Now, if the catch phrase was "brrrrap!", you might have a case against it, since that's pretty inambiguously the sound of an automatic firearm, but booyakasha is - while popularly in reference to a hand gun - just "boom", and could just as well refer to fireworks or even metaphorical explosiveness, as it always has.

ETA: The word "Booya" was used at least once in the 4Kids series. I don't remember exactly when, but I think it was Honeycutt who said it.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

First of all, Ambiguous means, Open to more than one interpretation / Doubtful or uncertain.
Secondly, I think you mean unambiguous, which means the opposite to ambiguous, ie. Something that is very clear. Inambiguous is not a word.

It is clear to see by researching the internet that "Booyakasha" is VERY ambiguous in it's meaning. Which I have pointed out numerous times. The debate over this word begun over the internet since the popularization of it by Ali G.

Originally Posted by Vincent

The word "boom" is in fact very ambiguous out of context

"Boom" is not ambiguous at all in it's meaning. I think everyone here can agree that, it's as you say it is, an onamatopeia in it's purest form. A word that descirbes a sound. The actual USE of the word "boom", can be used in a whole range of contexts. This does not mean that it's ambiguous, as you suggest, just that it can used for many diffferent situations.

Before you say, "Booyakasha" is used in different situations, I would like to say that this is true, but stems from the fact that Ali G has made this a popular phrase, and that it seems to have been accepted in pop culture, due to ignorance of it's meaning and origin.

You claim that "Booyakasha" is also an onamatopeia, which I some-what agree with, due to the fact that the "Boo-ya-ka" part, certainly has been used to describe gun shots in that way, and originates from Jamaican gun culture. Something that as you say, when referring to the word "Brap" meaning automatic gun fire, would be a problem in your opinion. I am glad you brought this up, as I never would have thought to use the word "brap" as an analogy, but basically, it's the same thing as "booyakasha". In my experience, the word "Brap" is also used in the same ignorant way as "booyakasha", something that people yell out, because they think it "sounds cool".



To everybody else, posting your one-liner, inane comments, just shows you aren't taking this seriously, and show utter ignorance and denial to this issue. Something which I half-expected would happen. That's all I have to say to you guys.

[Mr.Turtle]

see, it d be a lot easier if they use cowabanga...

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

It is clear to see by researching the internet that "Booyakasha" is VERY ambiguous in it's meaning.

And I never contradicted this fact. It is indeed very ambiguous. It can mean gunshot, it can mean explosion, it can be used metaphorically, just as "boom" can. This is a form of ambiguity.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

"Boom" is not ambiguous at all in it's meaning.

"Boom, headshot." "And then my computer went boom." "And boom, there it was." "So I told him, 'Well, so's your face!' Boom!" "Boom shaka laka shaka laka shaka boom." Ambiguous. Ambiguous as to what exactly is going boom, and why, unless context is given. Ambiguous in exactly the same way that "Booyakasha" is. Booyakasha, without context, is ambiguous because it's just a sound and you don't know what's supposed to be making that sound. Yes, often it's a pistol of some sort, but it's not limited to that, and sometimes it's just a sound of emphasis, similar to how some people use "boom" to emphasise a sudden change or a supposedly well placed retort.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Before you say, "Booyakasha" is used in different situations, I would like to say that this is true, but stems from the fact that Ali G has made this a popular phrase, and that it seems to have been accepted in pop culture, due to ignorance of it's meaning and origin.

Ali G wasn't the first person to use "booyakasha" symbolically. He made it more mainstream, but it was in metaphorical use long before Cohen created that character, and one doesn't have to be ignorant of the onomatopoeic or even historical origins of the word to use it in such a way. It's not specifically a pro-gun word; it's a power word, much like the aforementioned uses of "boom" as a power word. Other power words include Yee-haw and Cowabunga. Now, Yee-haw and Cowabunga are not exactly onomatopoeic words, but to say that the act of yelling "booyakasha" promotes gun violence is no more on point than saying that yelling "cowabunga" is a mockery of native Americans (the word "kawabonga" came from Chief Thunderthud, a native American stereotype character on Howdy Doody).

Booyakasha.

[Cryomancer]

I always hoped that Next Mutation would have used up the entire catchphrase warehouse and we wouldn't need any from then on but no such luck.

Cowabunga was never really very good, in my opinion. Even in the OT, only Mikey really said it most of the time, and the other characters didn't even really seem to enjoy it themselves sometimes either. I think it was just part of his surfer persona and he was the "cool" one so it became bigger than it ever really needed to, so I've never felt too attached to it to begin with. Maybe I'm just tired of hearing it every time I put a coin into the arcade game in MAME over so many years.

[Jester]

It's an Indian profanity if you go by the 45RPM recording about it:

[Mr.Turtle]

mikey: cowabanga!
raph: Booyakasha!
mikey: cowabanga!
raph: Booyakasha!

....

[Vincent]

Somebody mentioned this in another thread, but at least it's a lot better than "It's ninja time!".

[Ninjinister]

Why would anybody be "upset" by it? It's a miniscule part of the show. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

Vincent,

The comparison to the word 'Boom' is ridiculous.

The main ambiguity I am talking about is in the word's meaning. As I said in my original post, back on page 3, I have considered for years, this to be a racial slur above all else.

The talk about onamatopeia, has quite frankly, detracted this whole debate from the initial point I was making. There is no way, that you can compare the ambiguity in the meaning of "Booyakasha" to the word "Boom", as you seem so adament on doing.

Lets be clear, the ambiguity, lies in it's meaning, NOT it's context. This debate about what "Booyakasha" means, and whether or not it's racist, has been going on around the internet for years, since it was made popular in main stream culture by Ali G.

So whether or not you agree that it's a racial slur, the very debate and uncertainty about its meaning, indicates to me, that it's a bad choice for a catch phrase on a children's tv show.

[Jester]

I guess the bigger question is how many people see its meaning as "KILL WHITEY!" and how many people just see it as a nonsense word used in celebration. If the majority believes it has no negative racial connotation, then majority rules.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

Unfortunately, truth is not a democracy.

As I've tried to explain here, the notion that this is a nonsense word, stems from Ali G making it popular, and by him using it as a nonsense word. Ali G was a character based on ignorance, that was trying to demonstrate in comedic way, the very thing that has occured with this word.

I go back to the 'Brap' word. For example, if you heard a bunch of children running around shout "Brap brap brap", alot of you would hopefully stop and think. Hopefully you would say to yourself, "Why has this 'brap' phrase become so popular?". The reason would be, that hip hop culture has made it so popular. A culture, that in the main stream, is currently based on violence and criminal activities. This is because these types of topics, is what sells records these days. The children running around shouting "brap brap brap", have no idea that it is supposed to represent automatic gun fire. They are using this because they are naive, and have not been educated to its true meaning. I feel that there should be some responsibilty, in this case adults, to point out what that phrase really means.

This is a big problem with hip hop culture becoming so main stream. The actions that start from a violent, street level, are taken to the pop culture stage, because the media are ignorant to the meanings, and implications of these words and actions. The media don't care about implications, all they care about, is finding the next thing that will give them "cool" status.

I'm not saying that the creators of tmnt are deliberately doing this with the word, "booyakasha", I am just explaining a deep rooted problem with today's media, and that without education, ignorance will unfortunately rule.

[Mr.Turtle]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

Why would anybody be "upset" by it? It's a miniscule part of the show. Don't sweat the small stuff.

yea as i said, some ppl just tend to worry abt lil things.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Vincent,

The comparison to the word 'Boom' is ridiculous.

The main ambiguity I am talking about is in the word's meaning. As I said in my original post, back on page 3, I have considered for years, this to be a racial slur above all else.

You have considered. Okay. That's very considerate of you, considering something to be something, but please consider providing some evidence to back up your claim. The claim that "booyakasha" means "kill the white man" sounds to me very similar to the wide spread, completely unfounded and easily disproven rumor that the "Wu Tang" in "The Wu Tang Clan" means "kill the white man" (in actuality, Wu Tang, as in Wudang Chuan, is a Chinese martial arts term, heard in for example some old martial arts movies, which is something the RZA famously is a huge geek about).

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

The talk about onamatopeia, has quite frankly, detracted this whole debate from the initial point I was making. There is no way, that you can compare the ambiguity in the meaning of "Booyakasha" to the word "Boom", as you seem so adament on doing.

Oh, isn't there? What, then, is the etymology of booyakasha, if it's not onomatopoeic? How did the word form? What is its root?

Spoiler:

Could it be...boom?

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Lets be clear, the ambiguity, lies in it's meaning, NOT it's context. This debate about what "Booyakasha" means, and whether or not it's racist, has been going on around the internet for years, since it was made popular in main stream culture by Ali G.

So whether or not you agree that it's a racial slur, the very debate and uncertainty about its meaning, indicates to me, that it's a bad choice for a catch phrase on a children's tv show.

There is actually a traceable, genuine case for the claim that "cowabunga" is in a sense racist (not that it means something racist, but that its origins are, in fact, racist, in that it originates from a character who would by today's standards be considered an offensive ethnic stereotype).
Chief Thunderthud. There's a source right there. Unless there's an earlier use of the word "cowabunga" (or kawabonga or any similar variation), the origin of the word "cowabunga" is directly connected to mid-20th century ethnic stereotyping.
But even so, I personally don't think using the word "cowabunga" is racist, because it has transcended its origin and been given a different cultural significance through surfers and subsequently cartoons, such as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and The Simpsons. However, if you're going to make the claim that booyakasha is racist, two things are required of you to remain honest:
1. Provide credible sources about your claims about the meaning (definition, not occasional usage) of "booyakasha" being racist.
2. Take the same stance against "cowabunga". (This is something you'll have to do whether you can demonstrate your case against "booyakasha" or not, since you've already established your stance about words of racist origin.)

And if you can't find any real evidence to back up your claim, and still maintain that booyakasha is racist just for having been used in a racist context by some people, you might as well say the same thing about terms like "zippedy do da" and "superman".

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

I go back to the 'Brap' word. For example, if you heard a bunch of children running around shout "Brap brap brap", alot of you would hopefully stop and think. Hopefully you would say to yourself, "Why has this 'brap' phrase become so popular?". The reason would be, that hip hop culture has made it so popular. A culture, that in the main stream, is currently based on violence and criminal activities. This is because these types of topics, is what sells records these days. The children running around shouting "brap brap brap", have no idea that it is supposed to represent automatic gun fire. They are using this because they are naive, and have not been educated to its true meaning. I feel that there should be some responsibilty, in this case adults, to point out what that phrase really means.

This is a big problem with hip hop culture becoming so main stream. The actions that start from a violent, street level, are taken to the pop culture stage, because the media are ignorant to the meanings, and implications of these words and actions. The media don't care about implications, all they care about, is finding the next thing that will give them "cool" status

There's a certain amount of irony in the fact that you use the term "hip hop culture" while clearly having no idea what that means. Please look up Afrika Bambaataa and Zulu Nation, and then stop using the term "hip hop culture" in relation to gangsta rap, if you're also going to be adamant that the original meaning of words should affect what contexts it is appropriate to use them in today.

On a fun side note, are we also going to decide that it's okay to say the F word on a children's cartoon because it originally described an object's motion in relation to another? 'Cause I'd be cool with that.

ETA:
Here's General Levy in 1994, using Booyaka as a (completely non-racist and non-violent) salute in a classic jungle/DnB/dance track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oNU5wJEP0
Certainly predates Ali G.

ETA again:
Oh, and Casey Jones definitely said "booya" in a season one episode of the 4kids show. I don't remember which one, but I watched it this morning, so it must've been somewhere between episodes 6 and 8.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

The only credible "proof" I can give you, would be to search "Booyakasha white" into google. You will see many pages of internet forums, comments on youtube etc. debating the same thing. To be clear, I am not talking about proof of it's meaning, but proof of ambiguity to it's meaning. To say, or try to give you proof of the racist meaning over the internet, is no more credible than you presenting proof to me that it does not mean this, and that it's a non-sense word, or whatever you want to use to dispell the claim. The fact is, the meaning is ambiguous, and (since Ali G) it has been for some time. Just because more people now seem to think that it's a harmless word, does not mean that the majority is right. As I said before, truth is not a democracy.

Just to repeat again, why I came to my own conclusion to the meaning, I heard this first hand from a Jamaican woman, who was the mother of a former school friend, around 12 years ago when this phrase first became wide spread. To you, this is hear-say, and I totally understand why you won't take this for granted. For me, I had absoloutly no reason to dispute this when I was told it.


For me to take the same stance against cowabunga, as I have to booyakasha, would mean that "cowabunga" is a direct racial slur. As you said above, it is merely connected to a racial stereotype, not a direct racial insult, as booyakasha is suggested to be. The words themselves are on different levels of racism, one is connected to stereotype, one is a direct insult. So I'm afraid I cannot take a stance against cowabunga as I do to booyakasha. The stereotype is racist, as is the insult, but a word connected to a stereotype, for me is not on the same level as the direct insult.

Originally Posted by Vincent

There's a certain amount of irony in the fact that you use the term "hip hop culture" while clearly having no idea what that means. Please look up Afrika Bambaataa and Zulu Nation, and then stop using the term "hip hop culture" in relation to gangsta rap, if you're also going to be adamant that the original meaning of words should affect what contexts it is appropriate to use them in today.

Ok, you are clearing nit-picking here that I have used "hip-hop culture" in my comment, instead of being more precise, and saying "gangster rap" instead. To "gangster rappers", they consider themselves "hip hop", so that is why I used that phrase. Also, the state of hip hop today in pop culture, a high percentage is "gangster rap" as you coined it. So I apologise for not being so specific in my wording. My key point in that comment was about the ignorance in the media today. Something that you seem to have just ignored, failed to respond to, so you found something within my comment, that you felt you could respond to.

I am fully aware of those groups you mentioned, but I put the question to you, "Where are those types of groups today?" Hip-hop groups that raise awareness to black culture? There aren't many, if any at all being played on MTV or your local radio station... please educate me if there are. The lack of these groups as I see it, is because that isn't seen as "cool" in the media these days.

Originally Posted by Vincent

ETA:
Here's General Levy in 1994, using Booyaka as a (completely non-racist and non-violent) salute in a classic jungle/DnB/dance track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oNU5wJEP0
Certainly predates Ali G.

ETA again:
Oh, and Casey Jones definitely said "booya" in a season one episode of the 4kids show. I don't remember which one, but I watched it this morning, so it must've been somewhere between episodes 6 and 8

In previous posts have also said that "boo ya ka" and "boo ya" predates Ali G. This has been disscussed. Have you found anything that predates Ali G, regarding the full word we are talking about here? I have explained my feelings towards these kinds of words in previous posts, and why they are used, and are popular in the media today, so I won't repeat myself.

[Genesis]

So, um... just to break up the "I'm right!" "No, I'm right!" argument...

It's = it is

Its = denotes possession

Example: It's ambiguous in its meaning.

Spoiler:

But to engage in the craziness, Vincent has got it right, in this case. To assert that one peculiar interpretation of a nonsense word is the only meaning it has is just plain silly, especially when its etymology is most likely the explosive onomatopoeia that Vincent described about seven times over.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

The only credible "proof" I can give you, would be to search "Booyakasha white" into google. You will see many pages of internet forums, comments on youtube etc. debating the same thing.

You'll find the same arguments over what Wu Tang means. That doesn't give any weight to the rumors.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

To be clear, I am not talking about proof of it's meaning, but proof of ambiguity to it's meaning. To say, or try to give you proof of the racist meaning over the internet, is no more credible than you presenting proof to me that it does not mean this, and that it's a non-sense word, or whatever you want to use to dispell the claim. The fact is, the meaning is ambiguous, and (since Ali G) it has been for some time. Just because more people now seem to think that it's a harmless word, does not mean that the majority is right. As I said before, truth is not a democracy.

Truth is not a democracy, but it's also not affected by the wide spread of unfounded claims on the Internet.
Youtube comments are not credible sources, sorry.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Just to repeat again, why I came to my own conclusion to the meaning, I heard this first hand from a Jamaican woman, who was the mother of a former school friend, around 12 years ago when this phrase first became wide spread. To you, this is hear-say, and I totally understand why you won't take this for granted. For me, I had absoloutly no reason to dispute this when I was told it.

Around 12 years ago? The salute "Booyaka! Booyaka!" has been around for a bit longer than that.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

For me to take the same stance against cowabunga, as I have to booyakasha, would mean that "cowabunga" is a direct racial slur. As you said above, it is merely connected to a racial stereotype, not a direct racial insult, as booyakasha is suggested to be. The words themselves are on different levels of racism, one is connected to stereotype, one is a direct insult. So I'm afraid I cannot take a stance against cowabunga as I do to booyakasha. The stereotype is racist, as is the insult, but a word connected to a stereotype, for me is not on the same level as the direct insult.

That is, if it were a direct insult, which is just something you've heard.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Ok, you are clearing nit-picking here that I have used "hip-hop culture" in my comment, instead of being more precise, and saying "gangster rap" instead. To "gangster rappers", they consider themselves "hip hop", so that is why I used that phrase. Also, the state of hip hop today in pop culture, a high percentage is "gangster rap" as you coined it. So I apologise for not being so specific in my wording. My key point in that comment was about the ignorance in the media today. Something that you seem to have just ignored, failed to respond to, so you found something within my comment, that you felt you could respond to.

No, I was commenting on the ignorance in the media as well. the ignorance that has equated gangsta rap with hip-hop, even though the very foundation of hip-hop culture (as established by Afrika Bambaataa and others, over three decades ago) is one of non-violence and peacefully embracing the arts as a substitute for delinquency.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

I am fully aware of those groups you mentioned, but I put the question to you, "Where are those types of groups today?" Hip-hop groups that raise awareness to black culture? There aren't many, if any at all being played on MTV or your local radio station... please educate me if there are. The lack of these groups as I see it, is because that isn't seen as "cool" in the media these days.

See, here's where you're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you insist that booyakasha means something (and that this should affect modern usage) because you've heard it used to mean something (even though you can't provide anything other than rumors and assertions to support this), and you point to the "ignorant media" as being at fault for the word losing its meaning (which you can't seem to demonstrate that it ever had), and yet you use the term "hip-hop culture" exactly the way the ignorant media does (which directly contradicts its intended meaning), and insist that this is fine when confronted about it. Can we have a bit of consistency here?

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

In previous posts have also said that "boo ya ka" and "boo ya" predates Ali G. This has been disscussed. Have you found anything that predates Ali G, regarding the full word we are talking about here? I have explained my feelings towards these kinds of words in previous posts, and why they are used, and are popular in the media today, so I won't repeat myself.

1994, M Beat and General Levy release the single "Incredible (wicked)", popularizing "booyaka" with kids in the UK. Levy, when asked if "booyaka" is supposed to signify a gun shot, says that it's just a salutation in the jungle scene (although this doesn't account for how it entered the jungle scene or what usage it had before then, and I can't seem to find any specific pre-1994 references so far; here and there, it's been said that the word was used in Jamaica in the 1980s, and some sources even say Africa before that, but I'm surprised to not have found anything solid to back this up so far).
1996, Sacha Baron Cohen creates Ali G (a satire of UK Jungle/DnB and gangsta rap fans).
2000, Ali G gets his own TV show in the UK, "Da Ali G Show", where he uses both "booyaka" and "booyakasha" among his many catchphrases. Also in 2000, Ali G appears in Madonna's music video "Music", exposing him to the international market, thus raising interest in his show.
2002, the feature film "Ali G Indahouse" is released, giving Ali G further exposure, and with him "booyaka" and "booyakasha" reach international mainstream status.
2003, Ali G brings "Da Ali G Show" to the US; the secondary character Borat becomes popular.
2006, By the time Cohen makes the film "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan", "booyakasha" has a life of its own.
2012, "Booyakasha", now a part of modern slang, is adopted by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

And don't try to tell me that "booyakasha" means something different than "booyaka", because either "sha" is an extension or "booyaka" is a shortened form of "booyakasha", both of which are things that happen to slang words all the time.

Your turn. Give me some references. Years, people, media appearances of "booyakasha". I can't seem find any examples of "booyakasha" being used in the media before Ali G, and by the looks of it, it seems like the "sha" may possibly have evolved in the UK at some point after General Levy popularized "booyaka" in the UK in 1994 (possibly by kids wanting to make the word their own, or maybe even by Cohen himself), although I'd love to see what missing pieces you can find. The word "booyaka" was most likely used before 1994, but I'd like to see some examples if you're going to claim it was specifically racist.