Republicans push for an amendment that would ban abortion; even if the woman is raped

[ComicBookBoy]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

What insults just saying that I am a church going Christian and I don't believe others should be forced to do something because of moral standings of a few others.

Originally Posted by The Stryker
Church going Christian here BTW. Enjoy the rape everyone!

Sorry about that, I thought you were saying that church going Christians enjoy the rape. I misunderstood you.

[Candy Kappa]

This is as stupid as the law that states a rapist can marry his victim to avoid persecution, heck they could go hand in hand. Let the rapist marry the victim if she gets pregnant from the rape, so the child won't be born out of wedlock.

this article and view points makes me sick to my stomach of this, let's give a f*ck about women's rights and care more about someone that is unborn then the living. had this been just another anti-abortion viewpoint it would be an eye roller, but it's about rape. Shall we blame the victim as well, was she showing her knees. she practically asked to be raped no abortion for you. F*ck this sh*t

[ComicBookBoy]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

You have a statistic for that first one or are just going to go with what you perceive again? Even if it was the case, who cares? It's their body, their choice and their lives. Sure it's f*cked up and irresponsible but guess what? Free will homie! That's speaking for the women that just had an accident of course. Rape victims shouldn't be looked down upon for not wanting to carry on the legacy of the dude that raped them.

They don't have to keep the baby as their own, they could give it to an adoption agency. If you had to choose whether to live at an adoption agency or be put to death which would you choose?

[Andrew NDB]

The way things are going, they really ought to be encouraging, perhaps even forcing abortions in some cases... not banning them.

[Dirty Blond]

Originally Posted by Xav

And you actually think conspiracy theories are grown-up things?

http://youtu.be/0CrggAPwDEY

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

This is as stupid as the law that states a rapist can marry his victim to avoid persecution, heck they could go hand in hand. Let the rapist marry the victim if she gets pregnant from the rape, so the child won't be born out of wedlock.

This brings up an interesting thought... What kind of rights does the rapist have now that he is a father? Sure he committed a crime by raping the woman but he should still have rights as a new father correct? Could he legally keep the woman he raped from having an abortion because he is the father and wants to raise the child? What if he is very christian and believes every word out of Leviticus. Should the woman be forced to marry the man who raped her just so everything is peachy in the eyes of the lord.

I don't agree with this but it seems like many here would with the backwards thinking I am seeing in this thread. You can believe whatever you want, but if you are trying to make a law based on your religious belief then it seems as though you are crossing a line, because there is a big chance that I don't believe what you believe. So don't force your beliefs on me. If you have a problem with it, pray for me, and in the end I will deal with God on my own. I don't need your laws, guidance, or approval for that.

-ms

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The way things are going, they really ought to be encouraging, perhaps even forcing abortions in some cases... not banning them.

What about for underage females? Can parents or guardians compel kids under their care to get an abortion, as the mother didn't have the legal right of consent?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

What about for underage females? Can parents or guardians compel kids under their care to get an abortion, as the mother didn't have the legal right of consent?

No, but the state should probably step in at that point and sterilize the kids afterward until they're an adult. Or something.

Too many people, and at the rate and growth of resources we're expending is unsustainable. China is the model to follow, but no one will ever be the president or governor to make the tough decisions that need to happen (1, maybe 2 children per registered family, etc., and oh, you know that underage kid that squeezed out a kid? that wasn't a "freebie," that counts to the 1-2 kid total).

[ComicBookBoy]

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

This brings up an interesting thought... What kind of rights does the rapist have now that he is a father? Sure he committed a crime by raping the woman but he should still have rights as a new father correct? Could he legally keep the woman he raped from having an abortion because he is the father and wants to raise the child? What if he is very christian and believes every word out of Leviticus. Should the woman be forced to marry the man who raped her just so everything is peachy in the eyes of the lord.

I don't agree with this but it seems like many here would with the backwards thinking I am seeing in this thread. You can believe whatever you want, but if you are trying to make a law based on your religious belief then it seems as though you are crossing a line, because there is a big chance that I don't believe what you believe. So don't force your beliefs on me. If you have a problem with it, pray for me, and in the end I will deal with God on my own. I don't need your laws, guidance, or approval for that.

-ms

It's not that the guy who raped the woman should have a choice in whether the baby is aborted or not, it's that no one should have a choice of whether or not to kill their baby. The baby should be allowed to live without any consent from the mother or the father.

You tell me not to press my beliefs on others, and not to fuse my beliefs with the laws, but aren't you trying to do the same thing? Except you're belief is that abortion should be legal and that it's not murder.

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, but the state should probably step in at that point and sterilize the kids afterward until they're an adult.

Too many people, and the rate and growth of resources we're expending is unsustainable. China is the model to follow, but no one will ever be the president or governor to make the tough decisions that need to happen (1, maybe 2 children per registered family, etc., and oh, you know that underage kid that squeezed out a kid? that wasn't a "freebie," that counts to the 1-2 kid total).

You are absolutely right Andrew, the world's population is growing at a crazy rate, and to a point to where we will be killing each other over natural resources... wait that's already happening!

-ms

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by ComicBookBoy

You tell me not to press my beliefs on others, and not to fuse my beliefs with the laws, but aren't you trying to do the same thing? Except you're belief is that abortion should be legal and that it's not murder.

But would people that share the same view get an abortion, people have a free will. Or do you think that people are so stupid that they loose their own way of thinking just because something is legal.

Pretty sure woman did abortion when it was illegal, people was drinking alcohol during prohibition times, and some people don't drink today even thought it is legal to have a beer.

this is very akin the the anti-marijuana vs legalizing marijuana, some people think it'll be Ragnarok if it gets legal cause everyone will get high and go on a murder rampage.

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by ComicBookBoy

It's not that the guy who raped the woman should have a choice in whether the baby is aborted or not, it's that no one should have a choice of whether or not to kill their baby. The baby should be allowed to live without any consent from the mother or the father.

You tell me not to press my beliefs on others, and not to fuse my beliefs with the laws, but aren't you trying to do the same thing? Except you're belief is that abortion should be legal and that it's not murder.

No I am not pressing my beliefs onto you. My belief allows free-will (something God gave to us all if you believe in that sort of thing), aka a choice, a choice to believe whatever you want to believe, you can believe abortion is wrong, you can believe abortion is okay. What you decide on your own is not my decision to make. You on the other hand do not offer any sort of choice. It's either your way or the highway to hell or jail. I can understand that you feel you have a moral obligation to protect an unborn child but I feel it is my moral obligation to keep you the f.u.c.k out of my business. Your religion is not the same as mine so how can you prove that you are right and I am wrong?

-ms

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

No I am not pressing my beliefs onto you. My belief allows free-will (something God gave to us all if you believe in that sort of thing), aka a choice, a choice to believe whatever you want to believe, you can believe abortion is wrong, you can believe abortion is okay. What you decide on your own is not my decision to make. You on the other hand do not offer any sort of choice. It's either your way or the highway to hell or jail. I can understand that you feel you have a moral obligation to protect an unborn child but I feel it is my moral obligation to keep you the f.u.c.k out of my business. Your religion is not the same as mine so how can you prove that you are right and I am wrong?

-ms

Religion has nothing to do with this. Pressing beliefs upon people is done in every society. In the USA, people cannot legally drink until age 21; public accomodations (restaurants, hotels, etc.) cannot refuse service to people on the basis of race, religion, etc.; you cannot use asbestos in construction or manufacturing; you cannot have a radar detector in your vehicle in West Virginia; you cannot walk around naked in public. Society can restrict abortion if it wants to; it is not a "constitutional right".

[Xav]

Yeah, I'm against abortion not because of my religion but because of my morals.

[ComicBookBoy]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

But would people that share the same view get an abortion, people have a free will. Or do you think that people are so stupid that they loose their own way of thinking just because something is legal.

Pretty sure woman did abortion when it was illegal, people was drinking alcohol during prohibition times, and some people don't drink today even thought it is legal to have a beer.

this is very akin the the anti-marijuana vs legalizing marijuana, some people think it'll be Ragnarok if it gets legal cause everyone will get high and go on a murder rampage.

So, what about just plain murder? People do it all of the time, why restrict it?
THE REASON: because if you restrict something and make punishments for them then far fewer people will murder. The same can be said for abortion.

[Andrew NDB]

I've always had a pretty tough time buying the "It's murder!" thing.

I mean, every month that a woman menstrates out an unfertilized ovum into the toilet... is she guilty of murder, because she refused to have the egg fertilized and that ovum could have been a life, even the next Albert Einstein? Of course not, that's crazy.

It seems like a slippery slope when people try to define the moment when "legitimate" life begins. If we're talking about a human zygote, then... you know... even a mosquito is more self-aware and intelligent than that at this point, so it can't be a question of quantifiable sentience.

"But it COULD become a life!" is the rallying cry I hear. But then I find myself arriving right back at the beginning of my argument in this post.

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by Xav

Yeah, I'm against abortion not because of my religion but because of my morals.

And that is perfectly fine, but to make that decision for others is in my mind wrong.

Originally Posted by ComicBookBoy

So, what about just plain murder? People do it all of the time, why restrict it?
THE REASON: because if you restrict something and make punishments for them then far fewer people will murder. The same can be said for abortion.

No matter what counterpoint any of us have for or against the issue it is going to be hard to persuade the other. It's probably best that a mod close this thread asap before feelings get hurt because I would love to respond to some of this but I think I've already crossed a line replying in this thread.

-ms

[Candy Kappa]

one thing is important to say is, it's not about having an abortion whenever you want. it's no longer an option after the fetus develop consciousness and pain receptors. (It's pro-choice not pro-abortion)

The law is simple here in Norway, you can't take an abortion after week 12. after that you need a special permission due to medical reasons. The second trimester don't start until week 14 after the last menstrual period.

[Spitfire]

It still amazes me how conservatives want to actually move backwards and fight change. Shut down anything that tries to replace gas, ban abortion, take health care back to where companies can F over clients, and spending money to kick every illegal immigrant out of the country and erect some kind of super fence that they will figure out how to get past anyways. I mean really they're genius. They're philosophy is basically "If people want to make choices in their lives that I don't agree with I and don't effect me at all I want to make it illegal." On top of "If someone is stupid enough to let me rip them off that's their problem."

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

It still amazes me how conservatives want to actually move backwards and fight change.

Does it really, though? Think about the word. Conservative :p

But yes, change is inevitable. Not everyone will like every change, I'd be the first to admit that, but change still happens. You learn to deal somehow or suddenly you're old and grumpy and everything was better before and you let yourself be consumed by anger and hatred and all of a sudden everyone hates you.

Or... something along those lines...