Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 8:The War for Dimension X

[Ursalink]

You know, after discovering the secret origin of the Kraangs in the previous episode, I have to say, I was suspecting something similar the moment that the Utroms debuted.

My theory was quite similar. The Utroms were originally good, but then one of them (Kraang) went corrupted (just like Sh'rell) and became a monster. He mutated himself to became the giant we know, and then he cloned himself into an army. Almost hit the jackpot, except he brainwashed the Utroms instead of cloning himself.

You know?, this gives an idea about how to defeat the Kraangs. If I'm right, Kraang Prime is a mutant Utrom. So, if the turtles could use their "super-retromutagen" (the same one they used to cure the mutated human-kraangs) in the battle for New York, they could revert him back into a regular Utrom. That action could also undo his telephatic powers and revert the other Kraangs into free individual Utroms. Of course, there will still be ones who remain as Kraangs, but this could really help the Utroms to save their future.

What do you think?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Apparently Brandon Auman was getting hate from some fans over the whole Raph and Mona Lisa thing.
http://theellsassinjedininja5.tumblr...mona-lisa-hate

Reading what TMNT fangirls say on tumblr gives me the goosebumps. Man, it goes to show you how different their fandom is than here. Its probably because the Nick cartoon is their first exposure to TMNT so they view it like anime or Legend of Korra or something.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Reading what TMNT fangirls say on tumblr gives me the goosebumps. Man, it goes to show you how different their fandom is than here. Its probably because the Nick cartoon is their first exposure to TMNT so they view it like anime or Legend of Korra or something.

What's that supposed to mean? Gummi Bears started in 1985. I was young and at like 8 I didn't realize it, but I shipped Cavin and Callah (sp?) together. I even wrote a fic, something else I didn't realize until the Internet, for my mom that had time travel and ended up in the Gummi Bears universe. I wrote that the two above liked each other. I was maybe 10 or so?

Anime or no anime, people will always like the idea of some ships for shows, comics, stories, etc., and regardless of the fandom, it'll always have a subset of fans that'll have you scratching your head. It's not exclusive to the fandoms that are around now.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Ursalink

You know, after discovering the secret origin of the Kraangs in the previous episode, I have to say, I was suspecting something similar the moment that the Utroms debuted.

My theory was quite similar. The Utroms were originally good, but then one of them (Kraang) went corrupted (just like Sh'rell) and became a monster. He mutated himself to became the giant we know, and then he cloned himself into an army. Almost hit the jackpot, except he brainwashed the Utroms instead of cloning himself.

You know?, this gives an idea about how to defeat the Kraangs. If I'm right, Kraang Prime is a mutant Utrom. So, if the turtles could use their "super-retromutagen" (the same one they used to cure the mutated human-kraangs) in the battle for New York, they could revert him back into a regular Utrom. That action could also undo his telephatic powers and revert the other Kraangs into free individual Utroms. Of course, there will still be ones who remain as Kraangs, but this could really help the Utroms to save their future.

What do you think?

I think you may be onto something. Interesting theory.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Anyone know if there has been any news about a Mona Lisa action figure?

[TigerClaw]

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

Spoiler:

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TM...auma-582373454



http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

[cryan]

That was great.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

Spoiler:

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TM...auma-582373454

http://pre15.deviantart.net/2ce4/th/...ng-d9mqa8e.png

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

http://pre06.deviantart.net/ff78/th/...ng-d9qeezn.png

This was hilarious.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

But as I said when I replied to his post:

You need to think about timing and how many episodes you need for Raph and Mona Lisa's relationship but also need to focus on the main story.

The team only had 20 episodes at the time when they were making the space arc, it probably would of flowed better if they had started off with 26 episodes.

Zelda Williams was probably only contracted/available for only a few episodes and this would of been before Nick ordered 6 more episodes.

So it's probably those reasons why they had to "rush" there relationship and do it as a typical teenage romance.

Also If people weren't begging Ciro to add Mona Lisa to the show, we probably wouldn't have had her in the Space arc.

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

• Start with Raphael and Mona having a fight in Moons
• Raph is either outclassed due to Mona's advanced training or a nice even fight.
• To go full circle of Raph making fun of the crushes, have him seek advice from the group on love lifes. Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.
• The two meet up during the Ice Dragon battle; Raph desires to have her open up. Fights in a badass fashion.
• Mona still hates him, but when the two freeze, Raph protects Mona from freezing.
• The two begin to respect each others skills; no relationship kiss yet, but a hug or handshake.
• Possibly throughout the episodes before this, Raph thinks about Mona a little wondering about her. (this is a definite maybe)
• Now in War for Dimension X, repeat up to the detention center.
• Raph is shocked to see Mona Lisa again and attempts to break her out. Hint Mona has gone nicer.
• The two work together on the Dractoids, demonstrate their growth in teamwork.
• Either have them kiss, or end the episode with something cute.

The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. ) but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:

The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. ) but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.

I guess you missed this but it's more or less the same.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

It's not the episode that's rushed, it's Raph's and Mona Lisa romance that is rushed.

If Mona Lisa was in all 13 episodes of the Space Arc then there romance would be spread out.

If Mona Lisa was a main character in the show (like every other episode) then her romance with Raph would be spread out.

But she's in only in a couple of episodes in the Space Arc, most probably due to Zelda's contract/availability, timing, focus on the main story and of course they had only 20 episodes at the times before Nick ordered 6 more, so that's probably why they had to rush her's and Raph's relationship.

I also don't think Mona Lisa will be in any more episodes after the Space Arc anyway So I expect her last episode could be the mid season 2 part episode and we probably won't see her again after that.

I do admit it is rushed but I can understand why it is rushed but I just forget about it and focus more on how adorable Raph and Mona Lisa's romance is.

Also someone on Tumble wrote this, which is pretty interesting

(i'll quote the main ones)

Lets start with this first comment. Yes Im breaking this down FOR ME! NOT TO BE MEAN. So please, feel free to leave, as I said up above.

“Because we obviously know nothing about her. Raph knows nothing about Mona or her personality. He only knows that she can fight. He likes her look. That’s not love. That’s lust.”

Well considering they are both reptiles, and not all human, these two acted on animal instincts, and in the animal kingdom, its kind of run on instincts.
Now we know shes a high strong, shes blunt and to the point, which is why he likes her, she doesnt like taking other peoples crap, which is another quality he would like about her. So there are two quailities I just listed of her personailty. Lets also add in that, she is honorable, that is a quality they both share. Also, who cares if its lust or love, these two have been canon since 1980, since Raphael Meets His Match aired. Just letting you know on that infomation.

“I hate their rushed and forced relationship.”

Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion or whatever, but Im gonna let you in on a secret…..THIS RELATIONSHIP WAS NEVER FORCED. you wanna see forced? Leorai, Miket, hell even freaking Apriltello is forced. Why, because unlike the other 3 pairings, we’ve seen Raph and Mona together, before in the 80s series. Which is why it feels natural, just in a different version.
The relationship rushed? now see thats where it depends, Raphael didnt just like her off the bat, vice versa. They both were trying to kick each others ass. And then, it hit him…..literally. Relationships are different in many ways. For example… Apriltello, one sided love, Donnie has been infatuated with this girl since season one. It took 3 seasons for these two to kiss, and they are still not together. The difference is, April and Donnie like to beat around the bush, while Mona and Raph are very blunt and up front characters. He told her, she told him, they both grew fond of each other. Lets not forget that we gotta think about how long they have not seen each other. Raphael even said that he didnt even think he’d ever see her again, so yes they reunite with a few kisses.

http://tmntfandom2012.tumblr.com/pos...ot-their-fault

Even though all the abuse that Brandon got (over Raph and Mona) is disgusting, he is stupid for going on and on about it more and irritating more and more fans.

[Aaronardo]

Why are you reaching to Tumblr for critical analysis of anything? I mean, I'm legitimately curious, because other than 1, maybe 2 percent of the people on that website, people on there act like they know everything, then try to prove it, and come off as extremely stupid. Now excuse me while I pick this apart.

Lets start with this first comment. Yes Im breaking this down FOR ME! NOT TO BE MEAN. So please, feel free to leave, as I said up above.

"Don't Like Don't Read" bull. Okay, lemme get into the actual stuff.

Well considering they are both reptiles, and not all human, these two acted on animal instincts, and in the animal kingdom, its kind of run on instincts.

If you're gonna apply real-world logic to this, than you're suggesting a turtle and a salamander would totally go at it in the wild. That's a nice thought.

Now we know shes a high strong, shes blunt and to the point, which is why he likes her, she doesnt like taking other peoples crap, which is another quality he would like about her.

...which is why I hate this pairing. We have this perfect pairing, and yet neither Raph nor Mona ever mentions to the other how they like it when the other does "this" or "that." Thus, there's just no development. They spend an entire 20-minute episode together, and every other time they're on screen, they're kissing. That's not appreciating someone for who they are, that's just saying "hey, you're cute, let's f*ck."

Also, who cares if its lust or love, these two have been canon since 1980, since Raphael Meets His Match aired. Just letting you know on that infomation.

Yeah, because the OT and the Nick shows are TOTALLY in the same universe, even when there's an established (canon, if you care to use that word. Which I don't), multiverse between TMNT, which the Nick show is clearly falling through with as we can see with storyboards featuring the OT and Nick Turtles meeting. Basically, you're referring to a completely different Raphael, a completely different Mona Lisa, and you're referring to a filler episode to a show that never addresses Mona ever again anyway.

you wanna see forced? Leorai, Miket, hell even freaking Apriltello is forced. Why, because unlike the other 3 pairings, we’ve seen Raph and Mona together, before in the 80s series.

Idiocy at its finest. I'll just go ahead and redirect you to my previous comment about that last sentence. So, yeah, I can see Mikey and Renet (that damn pairing is why I gave up on the romance in this show), but Leo and Karai? They technically aren't even a pairing, and that's the genius of it. They're not in any full-on relationship. Any love they have has been built up over time, since New Girl In Town. Saying that pairing is forced means you pretty much don't know the first thing about the relationships in this show.

As for Apriltello, yeah, it is forced. Which is why it never happens. Other than that tease at the end of A Foot Too Big, which is an episode I try to forget about, Donnie tries to impress April due to his "love at first sight" bull, but can't pull it off because he doesn't really love her. I feel like there's something else I need to address, but it really is just that simple.

I pretty much addressed that entire post. It really just doesn't have a leg to stand on, and has points that have been shot down on this very thread many times. And with stuff like this normally getting posted on Tumblr, I need to ask again... why turn to Tumblr? I mean, that's normally the kind of post you see. Someone who thinks they know what they're talking about, when they haven't the slightest clue.

[Vicky82]

Can we just drop this now, I don't want to keep going on and on about this anymore, it's getting boring, not until the next episode Mona Lisa is in anyway.

Also with the cartoon on a small break my mind has switched over the movie now as the Superbowl tv spot and 2nd trailer are coming out soon.

[CyberCubed]

The words "tumblr" and "shipping" used together will lead you down a dark and scary path of teenage and 20 something year old shippers minds.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The words "tumblr" and "shipping" used together will lead you down a dark and scary path of teenage and 20 something year old shippers minds.

Cube, that's why we have you with that!

Spoiler:

(two words: Supergirl thread. Four more words, A Day inside May)

Mostly just wanted to explain myself is all, I am honest. Note to self though, never look up fangirls involving the show.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Looks like I forgot to give my case your honor, whoops. Well then:

The examples I provided can most certainly be done in those two episodes Vicky; minimal or not, it assists quite a bit. I stand by my word on this, the writers have proven the show isn't entirely for a young demographic. Look at the season finales, Tale of the Yokai, Slash & Destroy and others. Heck, episodes that aren't hugely a contribution have proven to be heartwrenching such as Metalhead Rewired, both Rat King episodes, etc. Even with different writers, you should establish what you want to do, have your characters for what they want, and their obstacles. It's basic writing 101; furthermore, they easily could have balanced the relationship in Moons of Thalos 3 and build towards the romance. Let me pull it up again:



The first six alone can fill a good amount of Mona's debut, the thinking may not be though. My remaining points stand though, they easily could have done the spacing out with what I said; given the dialogue is simplistic, I say they could have done it. It's far from my main gripe from the episode last week, but it is a personal issue regardless. (Also, that little Instagram "description" pisses me off; I get it's a joke, but let's just say I have personal issues with what Auman stated)

I'm well aware of the guests not appearing (specifically because Mutagen Man and Newtrailizer will never be addressed. ) but that's no excuse. Although open ended, why waste an opportunity to appease fangirls? Mona Lisa may have been a popular character, but they easily could have balanced Raphael being a man. For as much as I despise romance in the show, at least Mikey played cool though annoying, Leo, and even Don at times plays it cool. Either way, agree to disagree; I still find it poorly done and cringey.

I agree with this. My main beef is everything is so forced with them sucking face and Raph was portrayed as the girl of the relationship with the way he acted. They didn't make the other turtles the girl of the relationship so it wasn't needed here plain and simple. It could've been handled any number of ways making it better than what we got. Instead, they chose to do something cringe worthy.

[CyberCubed]

Why is Raph seeming like the girl of the relationship bad? Mona Lisa is tough and taller than Ash. Its refreshing not see a guy be dominate in a relationship for once.

You seem to think this makes Raph into some "feminine man" or something.

[TigerClaw]

What attracted Raph to Mona Lisa, was not cause of her looks, it's cause she could kick his ass.

[Amaranthus]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

What attracted Raph to Mona Lisa, was not cause of her looks, it's cause she could kick his ass.

Too bad their relationship is nothing but kissing now. If you can even call that a relationship.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Found this funny fan art of Raph and Mona Lisa.

Spoiler:

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TM...auma-582373454

http://pre15.deviantart.net/2ce4/th/...ng-d9mqa8e.png

http://myrling.deviantart.com/art/TMNT-Snoozy-588538211

http://pre06.deviantart.net/ff78/th/...ng-d9qeezn.png

Aww so cute. Epic art style!

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You seem to think this makes Raph into some "feminine man" or something.

He raised up his leg when kissed and was dipped back and kissed all of which are characteristics typically associated with women so yes, he was feminized which was totally unnecessary.