Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[pferreira]

I'm away for a couple of months and all this fun happens while I'm gone? Let me get up to speed and yes redheads can be attractive.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Would be interesting if tmnt cartoons got the Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog/Satam treatment, going as far as having the same designs/voices for both shows.

Adventures was a syndicated series, do they still produce 65 episode seasons? Also I believe Saturday morning cartoon series do not exist any more so the latter wouldn't be possible right now.

Originally Posted by snake

Damn, was Samurai Jack always hated by boomers and lumped into the same category as Adventure Time or Steven Universe? Those shows aren't even comparable.

The animation is just as one dimensional. Sorry I have to disagree on that.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

that's their shredder??? Wtf.

Well Splinter does look like a gerbil so...

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'll be, "Old man Cybercubed" by then, educating the new younger fans about the history of the TMNT franchise.

Meanwhile a 40 year old neatoman will have to keep defending IDW's TMNT against teen fans who think his comic was written by hacks and is camp by the standards of 2062.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I mean really...

Oof.

Originally Posted by TommyT

Please read the rules. I will continue to report your bad behavior until a mod deals with it.

Yea tell Rule 6 to Neatoman.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Maybe. I just know everyone in my generation in my school liked TMNT... and then suddenly they didn't. And when they did, Mikey sure still had his chuks in the cartoon.

Andrew we know you don't like the Fred Wolf series but the show was at it's peak of popularity in 1990 and 1991 when Mike DIDN'T have his chucks. Please don't make up things.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Changing a white character into a non-white character is simply Racist. Changing a non-white character into a white character is ALSO simply racist. It's not acceptable from either side, BUT some people encourage it because they want everything to simply be a numbers game, and in their eyes there is an imaginary number of how many White and Non-White characters is "acceptable" for a story to have.

To be fair there has been white washing in TV and film before and generally people didn't bat an eyelid. Before you go nuts on me I hate current SJWs by the way.

I think reversing gender for story intentions rather than just forcing it to gain points is fine because the intentions feel pure. I have zero issues with Joel Grey in Korean make up or Fisher Stevens as an Asian because they make those roles believable, their intentions were not to offend but be pure in their roles.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah man, but Katie Sackhoff in Battlestar Galactica was great.

No that was a terrible SJW decision as was the entire reboot series but people will disagree.

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Though causing a mildly bumbling human Shredder to fall is far less awkward than tickling your newfound evil demon enemy...

Actually if you can get the former to happen in real life that's incredibly clever.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I am not colorblind, April’s hair was also clearly colored brown as the series went on. In Turtles Forever her hair is brown too for that matter.

Go look at any clip or screen of 80’s April online.

It's okay man. Some people say I don't know the difference between certain shades of yellow and green.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by snake

Unfortunately, most of the fandom has rejected Rise (probably because they're missing the point of that show entirely)

No, they rejected it because it was s*ite.

The future of the TMNT will forever be the past. Tied to that godforsaken sh*tty cartoon from the 80s, we will never get something innovative and new again

Why fix what's not broken?

And can we please get off this persistent forum fad of saying the only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever really cared about is s*it? Clearly it got something right that all the other shows never could, and wound up trying to replicate to draw in viewers. TMNT 2K12 owes much of it's later life to looking back to that cartoon's back catalogue.

Rise tried something different, but went too far in the opposite direction...people praising it for sheer desecration are social media misfits who weren't interested in anything making sense, these are the same dips*its who keep Teen Titans Go running...and I say that as someone who occasionally does like TTG, however I know trying to ape that style has dumbed down many an old property.

[Leo656]

I wouldn't say the FW cartoon is "sh*t", but a few episodes definitely were (the downside of having over 100 episodes), and I personally feel that it hasn't aged incredibly well, like lots of 80s cartoons.

"The only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever cared about"... eh, true enough. Although I feel like timing had as much to do with that as anything. I still feel like the 4Kids series never had a fair chance for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it was a Saturday morning show that came out at a time when 1. Saturday morning cartoons as a thing were dying off in general, and 2. The people who'd be most interested in watching it (people who grew up watching the old show) were college-aged and thus most likely sleeping off their hangovers from the night before. I know that I, personally, would like to see the brand as a whole drift closer to that show (maybe minus Utrom Shredder, that was... well, it was something different, I guess) than FW, but that's me. 4Kids was fairly successful for a time, but it never got 1/10th the "push" that the original show did - massive syndication deals, hour-long blocks on after-school TV every single day for years, etc. etc. - so I feel like it's a little bit unfair to dismiss it entirely.

I do confess that it's been quite a long time since I tried to do a marathon of ANY of the TMNT cartoons, because as my tastes have changed with age they all get a bit grating before too long (god DAMN IT, Michelangelo, you f*cking ruin everything regardless of what universe you're in!). I think the last time I actually watched more than a couple episodes of FW was when I bought one of the last DVD Season sets they released; I watched the whole disc and that was pretty much it. I meant to/tried to do a marathon run of 4Kids a while back but got distracted somewhere in Season Two and never got back on track. But I will say that show takes longer to get on my nerves than the other shows.

2012 I can only get through a few episodes. I made it through ONE of "Rise" and that was more than enough.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And can we please get off this persistent forum fad of saying the only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever really cared about is s*it? Clearly it got something right that all the other shows never could, and wound up trying to replicate to draw in viewers.

It was there for toy sales. Yeah I never understood the reasoning of these people either.

Originally Posted by Leo656

4Kids was fairly successful for a time, but it never got 1/10th the "push" that the original show did - massive syndication deals, hour-long blocks on after-school TV every single day for years, etc. etc. - so I feel like it's a little bit unfair to dismiss it entirely.

The 2003 series got exactly the same chance every other cartoon from around that time got.

Also I'm okay with most 80's cartoons. I think they've aged like fine wine.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And can we please get off this persistent forum fad of saying the only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever really cared about is s*it? Clearly it got something right that all the other shows never could, and wound up trying to replicate to draw in viewers.

Coming out in an era when almost almost all cartoons were sh*t? Or being more driven by toy sales? Or cutting out the budget to fix errors? Or presumably having the last 5 seasons produced for the same reason as Fant4stic?

Look, it's not a good show and most other shows of it's era were not strong competition. The main reason it's "the only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever really cared about" is because of nostalgia, which is why it's influential, it's the first time pop culture in general even heard about TMNT. And it's not even really true to say it's way more successful than the others. Out of the four cartoons, only one of them didn't get a third season and the second shortest one has an episode count of 124. To say it's "the only TMNT cartoon anyone has ever really cared about" is borderline delusional.

And no, it doesn't matter if it found success in it's time or if adults claim to still like it. A show with countless writing and animation mistakes, so blatant the children it's targeted towards can spot them, deserves to be criticised.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by snake

Unfortunately, most of the fandom has rejected Rise (probably because they're missing the point of that show entirely)

Lol, so for fun, ***** and giggles, what is the "point" we all missed? That a hack like Suriano can make a name for themselves on minimal effort? That cal arts and crap art is the favorite of a generation of tryhards that can't do any better? That garbage is the new norm? Mediocrity should be celebrated? That sincerity is gone and only irony matters?

What exactly is your point, enlighten us, please, because from where I stand, it was Nick who missed the point of TMNT entirely.

[Leo656]

While neatoman and Tommy are kind of harsh in their wording... they're not really saying anything that isn't objectively correct, either.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Coming out in an era when almost almost all cartoons were sh*t?

Now this is interesting. My parents and I have to look after my nephew after school or during school time off so we have to put up with what he watches during his meal times. This is a list of the average children stuff I've had to endured on POP:

- Thunderbirds Are Go - not as good as the original and seems more interested in devoting plots to Grandma Tracey.

- Pokemon - nothing against Pokemon but it's taken twenty seasons for Ash to finally win a tournament. It's as repetitive as hell after that many seasons.

- Power Rangers - nothing against Power Rangers but like Pokemon it's been going on since 1993 non-stop and it isn't getting any better.

- My Little Pony: FIM - terrible animation, not as funny as it thinks it is.

- Voltron Reboot Series - the only one you could argue out of this lot worth watching but that's faint praise. The animation isn't terrible but it feels cold and lacking energy. The humour is incredibly forced as well, not good.

- Transformers Rescue Bots - are you kidding me?

- Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated - yeah it's alright I suppose but it still can't compete with the stuff I watched back in the day.

- Alvin and he Chipmunks Reboot - I'm sorry but the CGI is freaky.

- Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir - a poorly animated super hero CGI series involving a French girl who transforms into a ladybug while her French boy companion wears a catsuit. What the hell???

- Also another cartoon I forgot the name of that features a young man who has to cross dress in drag to fight crime.

Now considering this is the typical stuff kids today are shown you're saying the stuff I watched from the 80's and early 90's was terrible in comparison. I mean I'd really like to know what you classify as well written and well animated. I think I'll quote a well known character:

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by pferreira

- My Little Pony: FIM - terrible animation, not as funny as it thinks it is.

You sit on a throne of lies!

This is the only show I've seen from that list, mostly the first couple Seasons. Never been a devoted watcher of it but I will say, I'm almost never disappointed. I think it's very clever and very slick.

I'm absolutely not trying to be a jerk, but I just recently used a variant of your assessment in my appraisal of - wait for it... - the FW TMNT cartoon.

Mileage obviously varies, but yeah, you lost my vote.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Leo656

This is the only show I've seen from that list, mostly the first couple Seasons. Never been a devoted watcher of it but I will say, I'm almost never disappointed. I think it's very clever and very slick

Uh-huh.

[Leo656]

Oh, gee, now who's the snarky wiseass? Very unexpected, and disappointing, given how frequently you whine about people disrespecting your opinions. "Glass houses/stones/etc. etc."

I was being nice, brutha. Next time neatoman starts jumping your sh*t I'll be more than happy to double-down.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I am not a watcher of todays cartoons either, but I will defend Friendship is Magic to my deathbed.

Infact, I would say I love it for many of the same reasons that I love the 80's Ninja turtles cartoon.

Great voice acting, a silly and goofy setting but with real stakes and very colourful characters.

Also, musical numbers!

[Leo656]

I'll never forget the first time I watched it. Some two-parter, memories are vague, might have been Season Two finale? Anyways, I was pleasantly surprised by it, and then I jokingly said to my wife "All they gotta do now is some Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings-type sh*t"... AND THEN THEY WENT AND DID EXACTLY THAT!

It's pretty much the only kids' show in recent memory that I've seen that doesn't make me roll my eyes or gag. Kinda sad it's over with.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Uh-huh.

https://i.giphy.com/media/1ZbnufnHeW0W4/giphy.webp

Look my friend, I know we have seen the 80's tmnt cartoon unfairly criticized here and their fans brushed off a lot, but is it really fair to do the same thing to other toons and their fans?

[Leo656]

Turns out he's one'a those "Do as I say, not as I do" types. Who'da thunk it.

People sometimes come at him kinda hard, so I've had some empathy in the past despite absolutely not sharing his opinion or enthusiasm about the old show, but I'm a "One Strike" kinda guy. So now I just think he's a mark.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Look my friend, I know we have seen the 80's tmnt cartoon unfairly criticized here and their fans brushed off a lot, but is it really fair to do the same thing to other toons and their fans?

My point is I come to this forum because I like an iteration of TMNT but I'm supposed to hate it because it's seen as dated. Depends what is more dated I guess. neatoman can't really have a go at the stuff I used to watch when I can draw up a list of crap kids today watch. Why should I put up with that? He can keep calling 80's animation writers hacks and I can keep bringing up that list. Works both ways

[Leo656]

There's a difference between "hating" and "calling a spade a spade".

I haven't seen anyone, ever, tell you that you have to hate the show, even if some of them do hate it. Rather, what *I* see quite often is people listing very clear examples of the show's flaws - be they in the writing, the animation, the humor, the coloring, etc. etc. - and you basically replying "Nah" because you're still in romantic love with a cartoon show you watched when you were 6. You've done it with movies, too, more than once.

The whole "You guys started it" thing ain't a good look. Especially trying to snipe at me for liking a show that you don't personally care for, when I wasn't even giving you sh*t. I was simply pointing out how your own "criticisms" of FiM can very easily used against the FW TMNT cartoon. In truth, it's more befitting of the latter than the former, IF a person is being objective and honest. But objectivity is very clearly something that you struggle with.

Again, nobody's telling you to "hate" anything, but your knee-jerk and hyper-defensive overreactions whenever anyone says anything negative about the FW show makes people like me assume that you're a fanatic with a dismissive attitude towards objective reality. You act like someone criticizing a cartoon show from 1987 is equitable to someone calling your kid ugly. Stop that. It gets on people's nerves and makes them question your faculties.

Also, trying to play "gotcha" games with neatoman - who probably (I'm just assuming) doesn't even watch any of those newer cartoons you mentioned, anyway - just makes you come off as desperate and obsessive. I'unno what the deal is with you two, but from Over Here it's like he either owes you money OR you two used to date and it ended badly. You often bring him up in posts where he's not even present or taking to/about you. It's f*cking weird.

Like nothing at all about you makes anyone here wanna talk more with you. Just saying. Not trying to be mean, simply explaining.

[Galactus]

Debating the quality of the 80s show is kinda pointless as it's really about four or five different shows even before the Red Sky revamp.

The idea that it being the most successful version of the property therefore the franchise always has to take heavy influences from it is ridiculous. After all if people took that attitude to say Batman we'd never have had the '89 movie, Batman TAS and The Dark Knight Trilogy.

I mean with Batman you could argue the Adam West series was even more of a cultural phenomenon. It's been rerun pretty often over the decades and it was heavily the basis for every animated version of the character from the Scooby Doo team ups, the Filmstion shows and the various iterations of the Super Friends. Most of which even had West and Ward voice them. The shadow of the 60s Batman series should have been harder to escape and yet they did.

By comparison the Fred Wolf TMNT show has hardly been rerun anywhere, there's whole generations that have no clue about it. There are generations that grew up with2003 and 2012 shows were very distinct from it and while neither of those reached huge levels of successful they were both popular in their own right; toys for the '03 TMNT were the best selling for two consecutive years and the certainly had a wide audience.

Even when the 80s show was new it certainly wasn't the only game in town. There is a case to be made that the 1990 movie is equally as influential. Many of the concepts that most fans accept as central parts of the mythos like the turtles being brothers and Splinter bring their father as well as things like calling each other Raph, Don, Leo and Mike were not part of the 80s show but cemented by that movie. The very fact that Casey Jones is seen as a central character is 100% down to the movie not the TV show.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You sit on a throne of lies!

This is the only show I've seen from that list, mostly the first couple Seasons. Never been a devoted watcher of it but I will say, I'm almost never disappointed. I think it's very clever and very slick.

I'm absolutely not trying to be a jerk, but I just recently used a variant of your assessment in my appraisal of - wait for it... - the FW TMNT cartoon.

Mileage obviously varies, but yeah, you lost my vote.

No I agree. I'm actually surprised by how much I ended up enjoying the show and how well done it is. It's actually a really solid cartoon with really heartfelt characters and stories that I don't see in a lot of modern cartoons. Granted the memes during the time the show was new is what peaked my curiosity but I also really dug the art style before I got into it. I also was familiar with Lauren Faust, the creator of Powerpuff Girls and Foster's Home for Imaginary People. The characters are really endearing and I'm not gonna lie, I was a bit saddened to see it end last year but I guess every show must come to an end. I know they're doing some spin-off cartoon this year so I'm probably gonna give that a shot.