New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[chrisdude]

I don't even understand the problem here. It's a show about four brothers. Why are there expectations about female representation, at all? Can a show not be about four boys?

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Martin

I like him a lot, though I wish he would be more of a father figure to the guys. More protective of them I mean. Most of the time (at least for me) he comes across like he just doesn't care. Like he is missing that protective father thing other splinters had. Maybe they had to do that cause he is too OP to have him go around the streets with the guys. With that in mind, I really doubt they'll kill him off any time soon. The show kind of works as it is right now. However, since ciro said that he eventually wanted to give the series a definitive end, I suppose splinter dying is a very possible scenario. It really depends on what they want to do. It's all wild speculation at this point.

That's exactly what made me think that. It would be a pretty intense end to the show. The only time I remember him dying is in the later comics, but it wasn't very well done, IMO.

DB Splinter eh? I really like the fact that he's all discipline and hardass myself. But it would be cool to see some more bonding moments between him and the others.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I don't even understand the problem here. It's a show about four brothers. Why are there expectations about female representation, at all? Can a show not be about four boys?

noooooo.... sh*t here comes another 8 pages of comments...

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Martin

I like him a lot, though I wish he would be more of a father figure to the guys. More protective of them I mean. Most of the time (at least for me) he comes across as he just doesn't care. Like he is missing that protective father thing other splinter's had. Maybe they had to do that cause he is too OP to have him go around the streets with the guys. With that in mind, I really doubt they'll kill him off any time soon. The show kind of works as it is right now. However, since ciro said that he eventually wanted to give the series a definitive end, I suppose splinter dying is a very possible scenario. It really depends on what they want to do. It's all wild speculation at this point.

It would so awesome if the last seasons, the Kraang made peace with the humans and reveal themselves to the world which would lead into a new age where aliens of different shapes and sizes would co exist with the humans. The turtles then wouldn't have a reason hide anymore and go fully topside. Not having Splinter around and seeing them how they integrated in society would be really interesting to see.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

That's exactly what made me think that. It would be a pretty intense end to the show. The only time I remember him dying is in the later comics, but it wasn't very well done, IMO.

DB Splinter eh? I really like the fact that he's all discipline and hardass myself. But it would be cool to see some more bonding moments between him and the others.

I could see splinter dying as an end, but that could border on the darker side of tmnt. I think it could be a great ending, that maybe they're considering, but I'm not sure if nick would allow it

[Martin]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

That's exactly what made me think that. It would be a pretty intense end to the show. The only time I remember him dying is in the later comics, but it wasn't very well done, IMO.

DB Splinter eh? I really like the fact that he's all discipline and hardass myself. But it would be cool to see some more bonding moments between him and the others.

I love DB splinter, don't get me wrong. But there are tons of times that he clearly should have been out helping them, and he just wasn't up for it. As I said before, he is too OP. In other incarnations they dealt with that by making him old and frail. Here though? he can kick ass no problem. But we never really got a good answer to why he doesn't help more. That's why I loved so much when april called him out on that on the finale. It was epic, haha.

[SpiderFly]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

And no, I did take responsibility. I apologized. I am responsible for that. It wasn't really right, so I apologized. Want to try sarcasm again?

Rats aren't people. We aren't asking for everything in this whole universe(everything but the kitchen sink) to be crammed into this show. We are just asking for variety. We are asking for 1/2 of the people on this planet, who are notoriously under or misrepresented, so kids (boys/girls) can get the impression that difference is okay. That it is acceptable. That it is awesome.

But you're just kind of mocking that, like it's unimportant. But it's really important for a little boy's show. It really is.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

It would so awesome if the last seasons, the Kraang made peace with the humans and reveal themselves to the world which would lead into a new age where aliens of different shapes and sizes would co exist with the humans. The turtles then wouldn't have a reason hide anymore and go fully topside. Not having Splinter around and seeing them how they integrated in society would be really interesting to see.

That's basically volume 4 of the mirage run. I doubt they'll ever be able to do something like that budget wise though. Too many characters.

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Martin

I love DB splinter, don't get me wrong. But there are tons of times that he clearly should have been out helping them, and he just wasn't up for it. As I said before, he is too OP. In other incarnations they dealt with that by making him old and frail. Here though? he can kick ass no problem. But we never really got a good answer to why he doesn't help more. That's why I loved so much when april called him out on that on the finale. It was epic, haha.

Wasn't it implied that he was afraid of his past/running into the Shredder? Now he's afraid of confrontation with both Karai and Shredder.

[NinjaMan]

I'd be quite sad if Splinter died.

[Machias Banshee]

I'm eager to see more of the backstory between Splinter and Shredder. The old 'army buddies'-style photograph REALLY intrigues me... Splinter is my favorite character other than Mike, it'd break my heart to see this one get killed off.

There was a lot of mystical stuff in the 2K3 series.. Splinter communicating with Yoshi's spirit via Utrom-ball, sending him messages in his dreams. I am so curious to see if there will be some sort of aspect of that mixed into this series - could the ghost of Tang Shen make a cameo, send Karai hints of her past... or even confront Splinter about his hiding away and making the boys risk their lives alone so much?



Oh, thank you Big Bad for answering my question about Mirage characters.

~Machias

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by SpiderFly

Rats aren't people. We aren't asking for everything in this whole universe(everything but the kitchen sink) to be crammed into this show. We are just asking for variety. We are asking for 1/2 of the people on this planet, who are notoriously under or misrepresented, so kids (boys/girls) can get the impression that difference is okay. That it is acceptable. That it is awesome.

But you're just kind of mocking that, like it's unimportant. But it's really important for a little boy's show. It really is.

I starting to think this whole conversation would have been a little more nuanced and dare I say "adult" if female representation in the cartoons 80s and 90s were a bit more equitable. Alas, we'll just have to keep fighting and see what the next generation has to say. I'm patient. I mean...I've been having pretty much this exact same argument since I joined fandom 22 years ago.

I do have to say that my favorite part about the interview was hearing about the Mikey Test.

It's an unpopular fandom opinion, but I hate Dude!Mikey. With a passion that could fuel a thousand suns. It's one of the reasons why my favorite incarnations of the character is either Mirage or Live Action Movie.

So hearing Ciro talk about the Mikey Test really made me happy. Especially given the stuff that does get animated for him. Sheesh, I can only imagine the stuff that was in there BEFORE the editorial changes.

I'm actually really curious about what sorts of editorial pressures there are for this show in general. We heard all about the budgetary and time constraints, and a bit about the censorship (ie: no headshots...unless you put the faces in the belly. Which again, pretty awesome loophole there.)

At the New York Comic Con this year Bryan Konietzko, one of the Co-Creators of Avatar and Legend of Korra, gave a presentation that took the audience step by step through their animation process.

I'd love if the Nick Turtle people would do something similar. Most of Korra is hand drawn with some CG elements, and it'd be great to see the compare/contrast with a full CG show.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by SpiderFly

Rats aren't people. We aren't asking for everything in this whole universe(everything but the kitchen sink) to be crammed into this show. We are just asking for variety. We are asking for 1/2 of the people on this planet, who are notoriously under or misrepresented, so kids (boys/girls) can get the impression that difference is okay. That it is acceptable. That it is awesome.

But you're just kind of mocking that, like it's unimportant. But it's really important for a little boy's show. It really is.

I am sorry. Again this whole debate is getting out of hand here. If you want to keep discussing it, pm me. But I really just want to discuss the rest of the pod cast here, ok? There's so much more to talk about than just this.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

Wasn't it implied that he was afraid of his past/running into the Shredder? Now he's afraid of confrontation with both Karai and Shredder.

Oh, yeah that's probably it. What a chicken (I was gonna use other term but for the sake of peace I chose chicken). This is really not the place to discuss that though.

About the sets, I found that pretty interesting. Especially the part when he explained the only 2 sets per episode thing, and also how a complex vehicle like the shellraiser equals to 6 sets. That really explains the lack of variety we've been getting. He also expressed his frustration with not having enough budget to actually put civilians just walking in the street. Sometimes I wonder if CG was really the best thing for this show. I mean, it's awesome, but it really limits you in that kind of stuff.

Btw, can we also address the part when he said "I have to make them look like cute little mutants so I can get away with them being murderous freaks" (I'm paraphrasing here). That's just so awesome, haha.

It was such a great interview. Shame we won't be getting more of em.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Martin

That's basically volume 4 of the mirage run. I doubt they'll ever be able to do something like that budget wise though. Too many characters.

DON'T remind me.

My internal scream whenever I think about the budget.

[Electric]

From that, i realized how less epic kraang battles would be if the head was not fair game. Pretty sure each turtle has knocked the head off a kraang atleast once.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Jester

Dear god....

A really bad one.

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I don't even understand the problem here. It's a show about four brothers. Why are there expectations about female representation, at all? Can a show not be about four boys?

Just backtrack.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

DON'T remind me.

My internal scream whenever I think about the budget.

Spoiler:

Maybe if we all donate ten bucks they'll be able to render some civilians (or maybe just one; depends on how much we raise ) in the streets, haha.

[Jo Dawn]

Where, oh where, to begin...

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

And he obviously is blissfully unaware that girls actually like TMNT too, and that 30 years of the franchise's existence and decided not to use the girls there for the new version.

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

Yeah, us grown women definitely aren't the target demographic, but we're out there!

Yes, we are. And I have loved TMNT since before the 80's show, and I am perfectly fine with no more females. I'm not offended; I'm impressed because he took a show I wasn't much interested in (I really prefer the darker-type TMNT versions), and made me interested. I don't need X number of females to be happy. I just need good storytelling. And if more females equates to worse storytelling, then it's unnecessary and I agree with him completely. I refuse to give up quality for female quantity.

Originally Posted by Cure

Too bad females are so bothered by males.

This is true. I've seen it in many aspects of life, and in many fandoms. Why, oh why, do things have to be 'equal' to make them good? Most times, it just ends up ruining something that used to BE good. If you try and make things 'fair' to everyone... well, it's just unnecessary. It's this 'Everyone Gets an Award' mentality we seem to have.

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

And really, I don't want a female character just so that the vagina-to-penis ratio is closer to equal. I want a female character that is well-written with a good backstory AS LONG as it fits into the storyline.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by demonsweat

QFT

I enjoy a show for a variety of reasons, not because I can check off the demographics it represents on a scorecard. Sounds like they have big plans for both Karai and April, so I agree with you - better to flesh out the existing female characters than to try and squeeze in more just for the sake of doing so.

And, thank you.

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

I'm obviously not male, but I imagine no guys really make a big deal of it because the creators haven't said anything along the lines of "no more guy characters".

And I would bet money that if one day the writers of My Little Pony or whatever, DID say 'no more male characters', most guys would say 'Ok, cool, whatever'. They don't get all up in arms over 'gender equality'.

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Wow. This whole idea of there needs to be more female characters to balance out the male characters is honestly ridiculous. You have to remember that the main point of the show centers around the Turtles and Splinter. We don't need females shoehorned in just because there isn't a balance. Like Sweaty said, I'd like to see females as long as they contribute to the plot and are well-written characters who have a purpose to be there. Other than that, I could care less if we have more females on the show. April and Karai are enough for now because their stories are being told this season. Ciro probably said that so as not to give away things that he couldn't say. There may be more females in season three for all we know. Seriously, people are just blowing this out of proportion and really need to get a life.

I'm a female myself, but I enjoy shows aimed at guys. Hell, I used to watch Bravestarr and Dinosaucers with my brother, and those shows were aimed at boys. I didn't sit there and worry about the girls in the show. I just liked the show for what it was. Same goes for TMNT. I relate to Leo sometimes and he's my favorite Turtle, so that's cool for me. April and Karai are fine for now. If more females are added later on down the road, then cool. If not, oh well. Ciro is doing an amazing job, but the people who are bashing him are being totally unreasonable in their assessment of his words. No wonder he left this place.

Yes. You're being so reasonable. Stop it!

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

You think Andrew is the only with a daughter here? My 4 year old loves this show. Guess who her favorite character, Donnie. She also likes Karai and April. My wife watches the show as well. Guess who her favorite character is. Mikey. Neither one of them are asking for more girls to show up because they can relate to each character despite the gender.

Yes, again.

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Female Bebop and Rocksteady though. I'm interested.

I'm horrified. While I will be absolutely fine if he never brings in Bebop or Rocksteady, what bothers me more, is the thought that he would change already established characters to a different gender just to please a certain demographic and be 'PC'. I'll respect him more if he goes with his original plan and doesn't let outside pressure influence him.

Anyhow, thanks for the podcast. I wish I could let Ciro know he has my blessings. He really needs to see both sides of the coin, instead of all the flack he's getting.

[NinjaMan]

Since Ciro was hinting at Triceratons, think they will be enemies of the Kraang from Dimension X? Perhaps they hired Newtralizer to go after them?