Dreamwave is no more (with lots of TF discussion)...

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Straight-Edge

First: the initial arc blew livestock. The writer admitted he knew very little about Transformers, and wrote the book on the fly, and the plot betrays this. The second arc barely connects to the first

And that's a bad thing? "Brad" was a superior writer to Chris

The point of nostalgia is that it is immediately recongizable to anyone who hasn't thought about it in years. Dreamwave moved further and further from recognizablilty by pushing convention-based characters into the spotlight, and running plot-intensive storylines that necessitated reading all their titles to understand. On top of that, many of the characters used are horribly obscure, and haven't had toys for over 15 years.

Transformers has been making use of obscure characters for years, it was nothing new to Furman, and even Marvel allowed it, and the comics were still reasonably succesful.

Personally, I tihkn anyone who watches shows like again JUST because it reminds them of the past are idiots, the shows and comics have thier own excellent merits, and should be watched and read for that, not anything else

we won't see a succesful comic based on the brand. There's simply too much history, too many characters and few writers who understand the need to keep things small.

The cartoon barly kept things small in the later seasons, OR Beast Wars, and there regarded as the only good Transformers cartoons barring the early Takara seasons.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Kazari

So if DW is dead...does that mean their comics will be valuable? LOL

The cartoon comic was rubbish, I also got an e-mail from Dan saying they've given up completly on reviving it.

[CrippledNitemare]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Well....sh*t!

Maybe with some luck another publisher will pick up Dreamwave's Transformers series and keep it going. Not likely, I know.

Looks like the 80's nostalgia craze is coming to a close.

Spengs! Long time no see, my old STFU mate!

Rumours are going 'round now that DW has a bunch of stuff printed in a warehouse (the end of the current War Within series, a couple issues each of the G1 and Energon series) and that Hasbro might take it upon themselves to publish these issues just to keep their fans happy. Also: Both Marvel and Devil's Due are on the hunt for the Transformers license.

But the reprise of the TMNT comic won't ever happen at this point. So those holding breath can now release.

[tOkKa]

-->> .. i'll do.. i'll take the reigns ..i'll publish the books

..as a cost effective measure i've decided to do something rash, yet practical ..


..all further TMNT animation comics will be printed on 2- ply stock..



























..this way further justifying all those that hated the original D.W. comic and often reffered to it as 'crap' ..

.. our state of the art printing technoledgy has revolutioniZed toilet reading in a whole new way.. you literally will be able to ..

"FLUSH YOUR INVESTMENT"

..sanitation lines thru' out the globe will be blasted and platered with your bowel entrails and the Turtles !! (Also good for cleanin' up after a bad pizza dinner..)

..please place your orders now and make checks payable to :

"tOkKA'z Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Novelty Toilet Papaer Comic Company and Denture Grip factory of Tuscaloosa, Cinncinati"


..all toilet paper comics are sold 'as is' and refunds will only be made for unused/unopened packages..

.. i have high hopes for this current endevourer and look forward to entertaining and wiping yir arse in the future !!

..and well if you run outta comics ,it ain't my fault..


.. i'll have to take the stance as to why there is no toilet paper at KFC ..


..Cuz it's finger lickin' good..

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by tOkKa

[/SIZE]

Thanks for uploading the cover of the Trade Paperback for Dreawaves' Ninja Turtles comic

[HorseTechie]

*tsk* The TMNT comics weren't all that bad. The major fault on those was that PD wrote too much for the die-hard TMNT fan... and not to the everyday joe who kinda sorta liked TMNT. Thus, if a person didn't know TMNT inside and out, he/she definately did not get what PD was talking about.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And that's a bad thing? "Brad" was a superior writer to Chris

Transformers has been making use of obscure characters for years, it was nothing new to Furman, and even Marvel allowed it, and the comics were still reasonably succesful.

Personally, I tihkn anyone who watches shows like again JUST because it reminds them of the past are idiots, the shows and comics have thier own excellent merits, and should be watched and read for that, not anything else

I second that... "Brad Mick" worked out great by giving the TF's great character and plot development, and did better coping with the short story arcs DW assigned to them. Yah.. they did start out sounding a bit clique to the movie, but that was fading quickly toward the last stint of the G1 ongoing.

Comics aside.. the breadth of the TF saga is more than just nostalgia. Between the cartoons and Furman's previous comics, there is a huge history and saga that is as epic as Star wars and Lord of the Rings. Very profound... I do hope the next comic compnay that picks up on Hasbro's license does well to taps into that with more sucess.

I also wonder where the artists and writers who had been with Dreamwave will go. Figueroa and a couple of other pencilers there were just to awesome to now be forgotten....

[Kid Icarus]

Hey, I for one loved the DW TMNT series... I thought they were a great studio.

[DrSpengler]

One thing I liked most about the Transformers cartoons was that there's SO MUCH material!

I've seen everything, including all the Japanese stuff (even that crappy stop-motion adaptation of Scramble City). The shows have more low points than good, but I love em all the same.

Beast Wars is without a doubt the best Transformers series ever made. The content it added to the series, especially in regards to their religion, was magnificent.

If anyone is interested in reading alllll about the religion of the Transformers (in the cartoon, it's completely different in the comics), you might want to check this essay out:

http://tfarchive.com/creative/showentry.php?s=178

[tOkKa]

-->>

[DrSpengler]

Ya know, I never got the point of those things? Why not just buy the DVD and get the entire story with moving pictures and sound? A lot of the cine-mangas I've seen are very poorly put together, too. With the screenshots being almost randomly strewn over the page.

I dunno, it's just nothing "new" to them.

[ZariusTwo]

Generation One had a lot of classic episodes that certaingly blew away most of what you see today, just try and find something like "Ultimate Doom" , "The Burden Hardest To Bear", and "The Key to Vector Sigma" on Atomic Betty...

Beast Wars is without a doubt the best Transformers series ever made. The content it added to the series, especially in regards to their religion, was magnificent.

Yup, although Generation One will always be superior in my eyes, Beast Wars balanced both cartoon and comic continunity well, and succesfully panderd to both fanbases.

[HorseTechie]

Yah, I still pay my respects to G1, but I also like Beast Wars, and now I add Super Link to my list of Must Worship TF sagas.

Forget Energon, they did a crap job redubbing that. DW also did not do well on the comic version. The Japanese Superlink story is way more impressive.... and they actually had a few characters die! Right there before your eyes, in the cartoon! (yes, die... not all of them got rebuilt) Didn't need to make a seperate off-TV movie to make that happen either.

Hence, I'll like anything now that has a profound plot and great character development. G1 was just the foundation for the rest.

[DrSpengler]

It also might be of interest to you that Armada and Energon, animation-wise, are the BETAs of their Japanese counterparts (Micron Legend and Superlink). So the animation in the Japanese shows is a good deal better than the animation in the American versions (in Armada's case, almost completely different).

[ZariusTwo]

Meh...Superlink is nothing special, I've seen better efforts from the earlier Takara seasons, but if you like it, that's fine.

[DrSpengler]

Personally, I haven't been pleased with anything since Beast Machines. Car Robot was pointless, Armada was the lowest point in Transformer television history, and Energon is the best we've gotten out of Japan since the Unicron Saga of Beast Wars Neo.

To be honest, Japan is terrible when it comes to writing Transformer cartoons, or Transformer ANYTHING for that matter (the manga, though beautiful, was written by 6 year olds). I mean, it's not like they're incapable of writing good, intelligent Transformer cartoons. Victory stands as one of the best Transformer cartoons ever made, but sadly that was 15 years ago and they've only gone downhill. Beast Wars II is the worst Transformer cartoon ever made next to Armada.

They also tried their best to ruin the American Beast Wars series with a VERY bad dub.

I just wish Hasbro would give America another shot at writing Transformers again. Beast Wars is recognized as one of the best efforts at Transformers television, get those guys back!

[HorseTechie]

But that all depends if you like Japanese influences or not. I appreciate Asian culture, so I find the influences written into Micron/Superlink to be interesting. And then the company chosen to make the dubs/subs makes a huge difference too. The conversion between Superlink to Energon was bad, as it was between the US Beast Wars to the Japanese dub. Best to just stick with the orginal, sometimes.

Unfortunatley, I have not seen previous Japanese cartoon shows of Transformers before RiD yet. (as it would be rather expensive for me to obtain) Robots in Disguise... that's the one version I distain. I even place Beast Machines above that.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by HorseTechie

But that all depends if you like Japanese influences or not. I appreciate Asian culture, so I find the influences written into Micron/Superlink to be interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Takara who was first to produce Transformers as toys, and Hasbro took on the American reindition (the cartoon was later made to better sell the toys). Many collectors also prefer Takara toys over Hasbro's too. So it's all a matter of opinion as to who's is best, really.

Unfortunatley, I have not seen previous Japanese cartoon shows of Transformers before RiD yet. (as it would be rather expensive for me to obtain) Robots in Disguise... that's the one version I distain. I even place Beast Machines above that.

Who created Transformers, Hasbro or Takara? That question asks a mouth-full.

The correct answer is "it was a joint production all the way". But if you want it complicated...

Back in the 60's Hasbro released a series of toys called GI Joe. The toys were imported to Japan and renamed Combat Joe. They were very popular, especially the size and articulation. So Takara made their own toys inspired by GI Joe called Microman. The Microman line eventually evolved into Microchange and Henshin Cybrog.

At the same time Takara had a line of toys called Diaclone (they were all transforming robots with human pilots). The line was unsuccessful in both Japan and America.

In the 80's Hasbro approached Takara and asked to use some of their toys for a new line in America called "The Transformers". Takara gave them the rights to Diaclone and Microchange as well as "borrowed" molds from Bandai, Takatoka, Toybox and Toyco.

Hasbro then hired Marvel/Sunbow to write a story for the toys. They came up with the Transformers characters and mythology. Sunbow then hired Toei Studios in Japan to animate the cartoon for release in 1984.

The cartoon and toys were so popular in America that in 1985 Takara imported the toys back to Japan and released the Transformers cartoon at the same time. The show was an immediate hit there as well.

And it's been back and forth ever since. The Transformers was a joint success between Japan and America, completely 50/50. While Takara produces the better toys, hands down, America has always written the better cartoons.

I also appreciate Japanese culture (I can speak the language, ya know) but I hate anime cliches. Car Robot/Robots in Disguise is the very example of why Japan shouldn't write Transformers anymore. They aim the line at children rather than giving it broad appeal. Beast Wars was a hit in Japan and America between children, teenagers and adults because it has something for everyone.

I didn't make it past episode 6 of Armada.

[Anarchistguy]

I've always wanted to know this...what does everyone here think of Beast Machines?

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Anarchistguy

I've always wanted to know this...what does everyone here think of Beast Machines?

Beast Machines deserves credit for being something completely different.

Since 1984 the Decepticons were always terribly outnumbered by Autobots. It was no contest.

Beast Machines was different. There were 1000 Vehicons for every Maximal. The Maximals were weak and in hiding throughout most of the series. It was very different and VERY dark.

I liked it.

I also liked how it stand as the finale to the original Transformers universe that began in 84. And it certainly does feel like an ending.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Anarchistguy

I've always wanted to know this...what does everyone here think of Beast Machines?

Bollocks.

Major bollocks.

Bob Skir had no experiance with Transformers before he pulled out that B.S "Organic Planet" origin, and as a result, he was sent death threats for trying to mess with an established franchise rather than honour the continunity like Bob and Larry did with Beast Wars, not to mention the toyline sucked and did'nt sell well at all.

He refuses to go to Transformers conventions, because he knews if he even DARES show his face there, they'll rip him apart.

True Transformers fans don't count it as part of continunity it has it's own little, mediocre fanbase, but overall it's regarded next to Armada as the black sheep of the Transformers franchise

"Endgame" was'nt even supposed to BE the bloody finale, as Hasbro were going to restore the Trasnformers to thier technological roots with Trasntech, but it never came around, eventually, Simon Furman made us ALL happy by undoing all of Beast Machines' crap with the Hasbro licensed convention comic Transformers: Universe