Dreamwave is no more (with lots of TF discussion)...

*DrSpengler* · 12-28-2004, 06:12 PM

[[ split and moved from the TMNT Comic section ]]

Supposedly, Dreamwave is going out of business:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

**HorseTechie** · 12-31-2004, 12:30 PM

Yeah... It's been the rumor on the Transformers front too, that DW is suffering. Word is that Hasbro had not renewed the TF license. DW will prolly still be doing work on the small handful of orignal titles they do own. *has been noticing more and more WarLands adverts in the TF comics*

Sigh... it was fun while it lasted, though.

*DrSpengler* · 12-31-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseTechie

Yeah... It's been the rumor on the Transformers front too, that DW is suffering. Word is that Hasbro had not renewed the TF license. DW will prolly still be doing work on the small handful of orignal titles they do own. *has been noticing more and more WarLands adverts in the TF comics*

Sigh... it was fun while it lasted, though.

It's a real shame because the G1 on-going had finally started to go somewhere. I was disappointed with all the other Transformers titles they put out, but G1 after a lackluster couple of miniseries was really starting to pick up with the on-going.

It's Dreamwave's fault, though. They gained a lot of new readers by aquiring the Transformers license but instead of coming out with lots of different titles for these new readers to pick up they just flooded the market with tons of quality-challenged Transformers books. All at once we had G1, Armada/Energon, More Than Meets the Eye sourcebook, War Within, and the two GI Joe/Transformers titles.

And the other titles they DID put out weren't particularly good, either. Their Megaman book was atrocious, I dropped it after the 2nd issue (and apparantly it only lasted 4).

I dunno, Dreamwave just squandered the gift they were given (Transformers). However, the one title I read, G1, was finally starting to become a good book so it is a shame to see Dreamwave tank.

I dunno, hopefully they'll find some way to keep themselves afloat and maybe be a little wiser for it.

**HorseTechie** · 01-01-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

It's a real shame because the G1 on-going had finally started to go somewhere. I was disappointed with all the other Transformers titles they put out, but G1 after a lackluster couple of miniseries was really starting to pick up with the on-going.

It's Dreamwave's fault, though. They gained a lot of new readers by aquiring the Transformers license but instead of coming out with lots of different titles for these new readers to pick up they just flooded the market with tons of quality-challenged Transformers books. All at once we had G1, Armada/Energon, More Than Meets the Eye sourcebook, War Within, and the two GI Joe/Transformers titles.

I dunno, Dreamwave just squandered the gift they were given (Transformers). However, the one title I read, G1, was finally starting to become a good book so it is a shame to see Dreamwave tank.

Yeah, I was also enjoying the G1 Ongoing, as well as the War-Within series because it tied in with G1. Figueroa's pencils, the colors, and the "Brad Mick" team were a great combo. Furmon had some interesting ideas too for War Within (even though The Fallen was a bit much).

Personally, I thought they were pushing out too many different kinds of titles all at once. If they just stuck to 2 or 3, it might have been a lot more feasible. And then maybe rotate them on a bi-monthly basis too. Quality, instead of quantity.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-03-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseTechie

Furmon had some interesting ideas too for War Within (even though The Fallen was a bit much).

You really have to be a fan of the Generation Two comic to appreciate War Within: The Dark Ages

*DrSpengler* · 01-03-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

You really have to be a fan of the Generation Two comic to appreciate War Within: The Dark Ages

Generation 2 is the only arc of Furman's I've read on the whole, and I really enjoyed it.

His work on Armada/Energon was downright atrocious, though. War Within was an interesting concept, I especially enjoyed the art and character designs.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-03-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Generation 2 is the only arc of Furman's I've read on the whole, and I really enjoyed it.

His work on Armada/Energon was downright atrocious, though. War Within was an interesting concept, I especially enjoyed the art and character designs.

Yup, although to be fair, Armada was forced to change to Energon by Hasbro, and Furman should never be rushed, this is why his U.K comic story arcs remains the greatest Transformers comics ever written, he was allowed to do things HIS way.

War Within is probably the greatest Trasnformers story arc that has yet to be animated, it's ten times better than the disgracful animes we're getting right now

Energon is being forced to wrap up as well due to Cybertron's immient launch, but he seems better prepared for it, too bad his last story arc did'nt go anywhere (Rad and Alexis have vanished despite the fact the story was building up to a romance with them, Starscream appeared for one issue and vanished, leaving THAT unresolved until the final story arc, etc)

*DrSpengler* · 01-03-2005, 01:53 PM

Yeah, coporate executives calling the shots never helps. His last issue of Armada just felt so rushed and forced.

Which is why writers like Larry Hama and Furman have always impressed me. Hasbro breathed down their necks to include every new toy that came out each month in their comic and still make the comic good. And, to an extent, they DID. At least, they did a much better job than the people at Sunbow who wrote the cartoons.

They managed to write an intriguing comic with cast lists that would put the X-Men to shame, all the while including the mandatory toy commercials.

**HorseTechie** · 01-03-2005, 02:25 PM

Hrm... I must be one of the oddities. I hadn't read the G2 Marvel comics -- except for the first issue (didn't go much further cause Wildman's art in that turned me off). Funny how DW art has spoilt me.

But I thought Furman started out rather nicely in TWW and in Armada. (I also felt like Armada was suffering by the time it became Energon though.) The thing that prolly choked Furman was DW's way of making these runs only 6 issues long. One has to be a master of short story writing to be able to tell a good story in 6 issues... so either Furman wasn't prepared for it to be cut off so soon, or he could not handle such a short time to tell an eptic tale. "Brad Mick" managed, because those two had more than 6 issues to develop something.

*makes note to self to split this thread elsewhere if it continues further down this off-topic discussion* Since I started it that way....

*DrSpengler* · 01-03-2005, 02:36 PM

Dreamwave's TF art was both good and bad.

I loathed Pat Lee's work. His Transformers looked like inflateable pool-toys. He also had a lot of trouble paneling coherently, it was tough to tell what happened in what order.

However, Figeauro (spelling's wrong, I know) was very impressive, as was whoever took over for the on-going.

I'll admit the G2 art was bad, but the story was one of Furman's better achievements. And after a while you just get used to it.

You should see some of the Japanese G2 art by Comics Bon Bon. It made a conscious effort to emulate the American comic book art but added it's own unique touches. Probably my favorite of all the Transformers manga art (and there were some good ones).

*ZariusTwo* · 01-03-2005, 07:54 PM

"Brad" is finished with Dreamwave, leaving that moronic Chris writing the Genration One comic once more.

*DrSpengler* · 01-03-2005, 08:04 PM

Yeah, Mick and Patyk left due to paycheck issues. Apparantly they weren't getting them.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-04-2005, 10:58 AM

It's official, Dreamwave are dead.

Toronto, Ontario - January 4, 2005 - Dreamwave Productions announced today that after eight years in the comics industry, four of which they were self-published, they will be ceasing operations.

Established in 1996 by brothers Pat and Roger Lee, Dreamwave infused a stagnant comic book market with art and design that effortlessly combined the then dominant "American" art style with the newly emerging Japanese "Manga" art style. Since then, the company had grown to become one of the comic book industry's premiere publishers, producing a variety of original titles.

In 2002, Dreamwave firmly established itself in the comic industry as a force to be reckoned with when it launched an all-new Transformers comic's line. The return of the 80's icons shattered industry sales records, skyrocketing the book to the number one sales slot for an impressive six months. The Toronto-based company's other successful licenses included Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Duel Masters from Japan, as well as properties like Devil May Cry and Mega Man from video game giant Capcom Entertainment.

President of Dreamwave Productions, Pat Lee stated "there are a number of reasons for my decision to close Dreamwave", citing that "the shrinking comic book market combined with a weak U.S. dollar and unsustainable monetary commitments has finally proven to be too financially taxing."

As the only Canadian independent comics publisher, Dreamwave Productions has struggled in recent years to maintain its status within a relentlessly shrinking comic book market. Unfortunately, consistently diminishing sales totals over the last several years have taken their toll on the small publisher and made it impossible to continue.

The specific details for closure have not yet been released but Lee assures both fans and clients alike that "although this is the end of Dreamwave as a comics publisher, I will still be penciling a number of new exciting projects in conjunction with other studios in the upcoming years."

PR & Marketing Department
Dreamwave Productions
Source: Dreamwave

F*CK

*DrSpengler* · 01-04-2005, 11:35 AM

Well....sh*t!

Maybe with some luck another publisher will pick up Dreamwave's Transformers series and keep it going. Not likely, I know.

Looks like the 80's nostalgia craze is coming to a close.

**Barkworm** · 01-04-2005, 11:37 AM

There's a strong rumour that Roger Lee has started a new company called "Dream Engine". There's already a registered URL owned by him.

*KROW* · 01-04-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Looks like the 80's nostalgia craze is coming to a close.

Indeed. I hope this doesn't happen to Devil's Due. They just recently broke away from Image, didn't they?

*ZariusTwo* · 01-04-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Well....sh*t!

Maybe with some luck another publisher will pick up Dreamwave's Transformers series and keep it going. Not likely, I know.

With the movie on the way, Marvel would be wise to jump on the bandwagon and re-aqquire the licsense.

Furman...Marvel...drool.

**HorseTechie** · 01-04-2005, 02:19 PM

As long as the art is okay, and not drawin in that same generic "superhero" fashion, I can cope with Marvel revisting the old days. I liked Dreamwave mostly cause their art style was so differnt from the rest. I'm a sucker for eye candy, what can I say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkworm

There's a strong rumour that Roger Lee has started a new company called "Dream Engine". There's already a registered URL owned by him.

Ahh... so desu ka? *runs off to investigate*

*Kazari* · 01-04-2005, 10:23 PM

So if DW is dead...does that mean their comics will be valuable? LOL

Straight-Edge · 01-05-2005, 08:02 AM

Devil's Due broke away from Image over a year ago. They've since seen their share of troubles, but recently, both G.I.Joe and it's sister title "Reloaded" haev shown a swell in popularity. Sadly, Devil's Due not only has an over-inflated list of titles, most of which don't sell, but it's President is still insistant on publishing his own books, like Misplaced, which have never been popular.

If Dream Engine isn't the Lee's sneaky way of filing bankrupcy, and still staying in business, Dreamwave's Tfs will probably not be continued anywhere else. The continuity is far too convoluted to just pick up at another company and expect higher sales. Dreamwave made some very fundamental mistakes with their comic.

First: the initial arc blew livestock. The writer admitted he knew very little about Transformers, and wrote the book on the fly, and the plot betrays this. The second arc barely connects to the first, and features different characters, many of whom are unknown to casual Transfans. The point of nostalgia is that it is immediately recongizable to anyone who hasn't thought about it in years. Dreamwave moved further and further from recognizablilty by pushing convention-based characters into the spotlight, and running plot-intensive storylines that necessitated reading all their titles to understand. On top of that, many of the characters used are horribly obscure, and haven't had toys for over 15 years.

I hope Devil's Due trims the fat, leaving G.I.Joe as their flagship title, and filling it out with books that sell. They'll do well in the long run, I think. Their Joe book has a problem that is very similar to Tfs. They use far too many charactes that the casual fan never heard of. Everyone knows Duke, Snake-Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Roadblock, Shipwreck, Cobra Commander, Storm Shadow, Destro, Baroness and Zartan. *Most* people know Stalker, Scarlett, Gung-Ho, Firefly, Dr. Mindbender, and the Dreadnoks. The main focus of the story should, then, be on those characters. Devil's Due only makes the mistake of *also* focusing on others, drowning their plots in too many characters. Dreamwave just ignored a lot of the popular base characters outright.

Transformers needs one thing: The Movie. When the new live-action movie hits theatres, we'll see another renaissance of the brand, and a new standard set for the cast. Until there are a core group of Autobots and Decepticons that every Transfan can know and love, we won't see a succesful comic based on the brand. There's simply too much history, too many characters and few writers who understand the need to keep things small.

TMNT, sadly, will never work as a comic.

Naturally, I mean beased off the new toon. Mirage's TMNT makes sales now because people respect his integrity (even if some, like me, can't figure out what the point is). But the cartoon doesn't get the respect it should, and unless the comic was autonomous, and mature, it's not goign to float in the new industry.

12-28-2004, 06:12 PM	#1
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Dreamwave is no more (with lots of TF discussion)... [[ split and moved from the TMNT Comic section ]] Supposedly, Dreamwave is going out of business: http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

01-03-2005, 07:54 PM	#11
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,425	"Brad" is finished with Dreamwave, leaving that moronic Chris writing the Genration One comic once more. __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-04-2005, 10:58 AM	#13
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,425	It's official, Dreamwave are dead. Toronto, Ontario - January 4, 2005 - Dreamwave Productions announced today that after eight years in the comics industry, four of which they were self-published, they will be ceasing operations. Established in 1996 by brothers Pat and Roger Lee, Dreamwave infused a stagnant comic book market with art and design that effortlessly combined the then dominant "American" art style with the newly emerging Japanese "Manga" art style. Since then, the company had grown to become one of the comic book industry's premiere publishers, producing a variety of original titles. In 2002, Dreamwave firmly established itself in the comic industry as a force to be reckoned with when it launched an all-new Transformers comic's line. The return of the 80's icons shattered industry sales records, skyrocketing the book to the number one sales slot for an impressive six months. The Toronto-based company's other successful licenses included Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Duel Masters from Japan, as well as properties like Devil May Cry and Mega Man from video game giant Capcom Entertainment. President of Dreamwave Productions, Pat Lee stated "there are a number of reasons for my decision to close Dreamwave", citing that "the shrinking comic book market combined with a weak U.S. dollar and unsustainable monetary commitments has finally proven to be too financially taxing." As the only Canadian independent comics publisher, Dreamwave Productions has struggled in recent years to maintain its status within a relentlessly shrinking comic book market. Unfortunately, consistently diminishing sales totals over the last several years have taken their toll on the small publisher and made it impossible to continue. The specific details for closure have not yet been released but Lee assures both fans and clients alike that "although this is the end of Dreamwave as a comics publisher, I will still be penciling a number of new exciting projects in conjunction with other studios in the upcoming years." PR & Marketing Department Dreamwave Productions Source: Dreamwave FCK __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue* Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-04-2005, 11:37 AM	#15
Barkworm Draconian leftist ruler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 6,710	There's a strong rumour that Roger Lee has started a new company called "Dream Engine". There's already a registered URL owned by him. __________________ Make ****, not kill!

01-04-2005, 10:23 PM	#19
Kazari Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nexus: Chasing after the Ultimate Ninja Posts: 2,731	So if DW is dead...does that mean their comics will be valuable? LOL __________________ is an official Drako hater

12-31-2004, 12:30 PM	#2
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah... It's been the rumor on the Transformers front too, that DW is suffering. Word is that Hasbro had not renewed the TF license. DW will prolly still be doing work on the small handful of orignal titles they do own. has been noticing more and more WarLands adverts in the TF comics Sigh... it was fun while it lasted, though.

01-03-2005, 01:53 PM	#8
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Yeah, coporate executives calling the shots never helps. His last issue of Armada just felt so rushed and forced. Which is why writers like Larry Hama and Furman have always impressed me. Hasbro breathed down their necks to include every new toy that came out each month in their comic and still make the comic good. And, to an extent, they DID. At least, they did a much better job than the people at Sunbow who wrote the cartoons. They managed to write an intriguing comic with cast lists that would put the X-Men to shame, all the while including the mandatory toy commercials.

01-03-2005, 02:25 PM	#9
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Hrm... I must be one of the oddities. I hadn't read the G2 Marvel comics -- except for the first issue (didn't go much further cause Wildman's art in that turned me off). Funny how DW art has spoilt me. But I thought Furman started out rather nicely in TWW and in Armada. (I also felt like Armada was suffering by the time it became Energon though.) The thing that prolly choked Furman was DW's way of making these runs only 6 issues long. One has to be a master of short story writing to be able to tell a good story in 6 issues... so either Furman wasn't prepared for it to be cut off so soon, or he could not handle such a short time to tell an eptic tale. "Brad Mick" managed, because those two had more than 6 issues to develop something. makes note to self to split this thread elsewhere if it continues further down this off-topic discussion Since I started it that way....

01-03-2005, 02:36 PM	#10
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Dreamwave's TF art was both good and bad. I loathed Pat Lee's work. His Transformers looked like inflateable pool-toys. He also had a lot of trouble paneling coherently, it was tough to tell what happened in what order. However, Figeauro (spelling's wrong, I know) was very impressive, as was whoever took over for the on-going. I'll admit the G2 art was bad, but the story was one of Furman's better achievements. And after a while you just get used to it. You should see some of the Japanese G2 art by Comics Bon Bon. It made a conscious effort to emulate the American comic book art but added it's own unique touches. Probably my favorite of all the Transformers manga art (and there were some good ones).

01-03-2005, 08:04 PM	#12
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Yeah, Mick and Patyk left due to paycheck issues. Apparantly they weren't getting them.

01-04-2005, 11:35 AM	#14
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Well....sh*t! Maybe with some luck another publisher will pick up Dreamwave's Transformers series and keep it going. Not likely, I know. Looks like the 80's nostalgia craze is coming to a close.

01-05-2005, 08:02 AM	#20
Straight-Edge Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 139	Devil's Due broke away from Image over a year ago. They've since seen their share of troubles, but recently, both G.I.Joe and it's sister title "Reloaded" haev shown a swell in popularity. Sadly, Devil's Due not only has an over-inflated list of titles, most of which don't sell, but it's President is still insistant on publishing his own books, like Misplaced, which have never been popular. If Dream Engine isn't the Lee's sneaky way of filing bankrupcy, and still staying in business, Dreamwave's Tfs will probably not be continued anywhere else. The continuity is far too convoluted to just pick up at another company and expect higher sales. Dreamwave made some very fundamental mistakes with their comic. First: the initial arc blew livestock. The writer admitted he knew very little about Transformers, and wrote the book on the fly, and the plot betrays this. The second arc barely connects to the first, and features different characters, many of whom are unknown to casual Transfans. The point of nostalgia is that it is immediately recongizable to anyone who hasn't thought about it in years. Dreamwave moved further and further from recognizablilty by pushing convention-based characters into the spotlight, and running plot-intensive storylines that necessitated reading all their titles to understand. On top of that, many of the characters used are horribly obscure, and haven't had toys for over 15 years. I hope Devil's Due trims the fat, leaving G.I.Joe as their flagship title, and filling it out with books that sell. They'll do well in the long run, I think. Their Joe book has a problem that is very similar to Tfs. They use far too many charactes that the casual fan never heard of. Everyone knows Duke, Snake-Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Roadblock, Shipwreck, Cobra Commander, Storm Shadow, Destro, Baroness and Zartan. Most people know Stalker, Scarlett, Gung-Ho, Firefly, Dr. Mindbender, and the Dreadnoks. The main focus of the story should, then, be on those characters. Devil's Due only makes the mistake of also focusing on others, drowning their plots in too many characters. Dreamwave just ignored a lot of the popular base characters outright. Transformers needs one thing: The Movie. When the new live-action movie hits theatres, we'll see another renaissance of the brand, and a new standard set for the cast. Until there are a core group of Autobots and Decepticons that every Transfan can know and love, we won't see a succesful comic based on the brand. There's simply too much history, too many characters and few writers who understand the need to keep things small. TMNT, sadly, will never work as a comic. Naturally, I mean beased off the new toon. Mirage's TMNT makes sales now because people respect his integrity (even if some, like me, can't figure out what the point is). But the cartoon doesn't get the respect it should, and unless the comic was autonomous, and mature, it's not goign to float in the new industry.