Did You Like Splinter's Origin Better in the Comics or in the Old Cartoon Series? - Page 2

**Jester** · 10-17-2007, 12:38 PM

I'm on the fence too. I liked the OT origin as a kid, added to the Shredder/Splinter drama, though in retrospect, what the heck made Yoshi and Saki so bitter enemies? Saki's ambition? The comic origin shocked me a bit in the 1st movie, but it made sence to me and as others have said the biggest problem is the whole "mimicing his movements from my cage and learning the secret art of ninja." [Really with Seth and Amy mode]Really? Just by mimicing a ninjas movements you can become a ninja...really...[/Really with Seth and Amy mode] But I like both, though I was "brought up" on the OT/Archie origin.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 10-17-2007, 12:47 PM

I'm fine with a rat learning ninjitsu, since the comic was originally meant to be a parody anyway. We're already suspending disbelief for a radioactive goo making turtles bigger and smarter and aliens that look like brains, I can definitely buy into a rat learning martial arts at that point.

*Rooish* · 10-17-2007, 12:59 PM

I dunno ... I mean, i know we're suspending disbelief and all, but I like to think of the TMNT universe as a normal world that has been touched by the supernatural. So Splinter should have been, I think, a normal rat, until he came in contact with the mutagen. But he was ... a super-rat already.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-17-2007, 02:01 PM

Well, the thing is, Mutagen turns you into the last thing you touched. Bebop and Rocksteady were probably made to touch, pet or get licked by the rhino and the warthog before Shredder spilled the Mutagen on them. Maybe Yoshi had a few rats around him before he touched the turtles. He was taking a stroll down the sewers before he came back and found the turtles in the ooze.

Their bitter rivarly... hm... Shredder got Yoshi kicked out of his own clan, plus, he turned the 'once noble Foot Clan' into 'an army of crime'.... and deep down he knows Splinter's the only one that can kick his ass in a fight, should he interfere with his plans... so yeah... Splinter hates Shredder... and Shredder wants Splinter taken out.

As for the rat version... I think Eastman and Laird already went back and said he was some kind of super-rat already, since not only did he learn martial arts from a cage, he also lived over 10 or so years BEFORE encountering the ooze, which already surpasses the hell out of normal rat years. Adding the 15 years it took for the turtles to fully mutate, Splinter shouldn't have been alive in the first TMNT issue.

Lady R. Santi · 10-17-2007, 03:09 PM

I voted neutral because I prefer neither. I like pieces of both. I like the fact that Hamato Yoshi is a man and yes, Tang Shen was a great story. IMHO, I think he should have been left human. There is more believability to it. And a lot of people joke about four mutant turtles being a bit unbelievable but if they're the weirdest thing in the story then it's not so bad. But a rat who learned ninja from his cage...

If I could change anything about the TMNT, this would be it.

Zog the Equalizer · 10-17-2007, 04:04 PM

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)

*Mecha Cow* · 10-17-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)

I agree, this has always been my interpretation as well. What was shown in the very first issue was never meant to be entirely serious anyway since it was intended to be a parody comic at the time.

*odupianist* · 10-17-2007, 04:48 PM

It was meant to be parody AND it was only supposed to be one issue.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 10-17-2007, 05:41 PM

Maybe it will be one of the things Laird goes George Lucas on?

cross · 10-17-2007, 07:48 PM

..........

cross · 10-17-2007, 07:52 PM

..........

*Scandia* · 10-17-2007, 08:11 PM

I think that if Kevin and Peter redid the story, they would keep Splinter's origins.

Had they kept Splinter's story straight across all universes, the competition for my absolute favorite would be an even closer call between the 2k3 toon and the Archie comic (but 2k3 would still win due to its Leonardo focus).

They could have still had the betrayal and expulsion plot with Splinter as Yoshi's rat. Yoshi would have passed away of sadness and Splinter could still want to avenge him in a way.

*ZariusTwo* · 10-17-2007, 08:25 PM

Cartoon origin, it's just more comical to think they took an origin THAT dark and made it something that could be easily accessible

I've always loved innovation over the original idea

*odupianist* · 10-18-2007, 08:17 AM

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

*BigApple3AM* · 10-18-2007, 10:02 AM

I always looked at the cartoon origin like Ooze/Mutagen combines the subjects DNA with the last thing that touched them's DNA.
Therefore, splinter's transformation scene could go like so:
Yoshi touches turtles, then touches rats. Turtles come in contact with mutagen, Yoshi comes in contact with mutagen. Turtles then change into half way to humans, and Hamato Yoshi turns half way into a rat.

Time Mistress · 10-18-2007, 11:25 AM

Neutral. They both work. I'm more used to the comic origin now, but I find I still quite like the OT one.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-18-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

Maybe it will be one of the things Laird goes George Lucas on?

They already did when they started saying Splinter wasn't really an ordinary rat to begin with...

Quote:

Originally Posted by odupianist

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

Except for the fact that it was supposed to be a normal non-mutant rat learning ninjitsu. I mean... at least the turtles weren't already bustin one-liners and wisecracks when they were still pets swimming around a glass bowl.

*Sage Ninja* · 10-19-2007, 12:05 AM

I prefere the classic cartoon origin of Splinter being Yoshi that was framed by Shredder and cast out of the foot clan so that Shredder could take his place.

I just think that the bitter rivalry between Yoshi and Saki was a good one and added something to the whole plot. However I really wish that the old show had gone more deeply into the Saki being Yoshi's student angle a bit more. You never really know why exactly Saki hated Yoshi so much other than the fact that he hates says he he hates him. And it would have been nice to find out when exactly Shredder became the Shredder.

*KROW* · 10-19-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gisaku Kato

I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

I agree, this has always been my interpretation as well. What was shown in the very first issue was never meant to be entirely serious anyway since it was intended to be a parody comic at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odupianist

It was meant to be parody AND it was only supposed to be one issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odupianist

Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

While I understand the first issue was not meant to be taken seriously (after all, the turtles made their printed debut in a book called Gobbledygook with The Flaming Carrot), I still say that a rat -- a normal, average, everyday rat -- learning martial arts from observation in a cage is ridiculous. I can say it's ridiculous, because before the ooze showed up, we readers still had realism when Splinter was recanting his origin.

Although I do like the interpretation here of Splinter being able to hang on to that knowledge after the mutagen made him more intelligent, I think the OT origin made just a little more sense. It's easier to comprehend that a human or animal can transform with the ooze after being in contact with one another.

My take on the comic origin, after waving off the rat-mimicking, is that after being mutated, Splinter found a book on ninjitsu or martial arts (like he did with the Renaissance book) and perhaps had a flash of memory from his time in Yoshi's house.

I'm still borderline on both origins, though. I like the comic for its originality and the OT's for its charm.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-19-2007, 09:08 AM

Saki was probably jealous that Ysoshi was a better fighter than him and leader of the Foot. He probably felt he'd be a much better leader. I guess, to not risk that Yoshi would one day return to defeat him or expose him, he followed him to New York and tried to kill him off with the Mutagen.

Shouldn't Krang have told Shredder what exactly the ****in Mutagen DOES before giving it to him to destroy Yoshi? And just how did Krang know that 'Yoshi was given the powers of the rats'??? Just how long were Shredder and Krang spying on them and how come they don't know the location of their lair????

View Poll Results: Did You Like Splinter's Origin Better in the Comics or in the Old Cartoon Series?
Comic Origin	30	53.57%
Cartoon Origin	17	30.36%
Neutral	9	16.07%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

10-17-2007, 12:38 PM	#21
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,296	I'm on the fence too. I liked the OT origin as a kid, added to the Shredder/Splinter drama, though in retrospect, what the heck made Yoshi and Saki so bitter enemies? Saki's ambition? The comic origin shocked me a bit in the 1st movie, but it made sence to me and as others have said the biggest problem is the whole "mimicing his movements from my cage and learning the secret art of ninja." [Really with Seth and Amy mode]Really? Just by mimicing a ninjas movements you can become a ninja...really...[/Really with Seth and Amy mode] But I like both, though I was "brought up" on the OT/Archie origin. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

10-17-2007, 03:09 PM	#25
Lady R. Santi Foot Soldier Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: MI, USA Posts: 108	I voted neutral because I prefer neither. I like pieces of both. I like the fact that Hamato Yoshi is a man and yes, Tang Shen was a great story. IMHO, I think he should have been left human. There is more believability to it. And a lot of people joke about four mutant turtles being a bit unbelievable but if they're the weirdest thing in the story then it's not so bad. But a rat who learned ninja from his cage... If I could change anything about the TMNT, this would be it. __________________ LadyRSanti@DeviantART

10-17-2007, 04:04 PM	#26
Zog the Equalizer Stone Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas Posts: 534	I prefer the comics. As far as a rat learning ninjutsu, I'd like to think that Splinter observed Yoshi's routine and remembered it and was able to comprehend and mimic it after he became intelligent. (I am aware that the comic showed him mimicking Yoshi as a rat so dont bite my head off about my theory being inconsistent with it) __________________ "Pork rind?" "Pork rind!"

10-17-2007, 07:48 PM	#30
cross Thug Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 76	.......... Last edited by cross; 12-04-2007 at 06:44 AM.

10-17-2007, 12:47 PM	#22
Mr._Mutant_Man Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,340	I'm fine with a rat learning ninjitsu, since the comic was originally meant to be a parody anyway. We're already suspending disbelief for a radioactive goo making turtles bigger and smarter and aliens that look like brains, I can definitely buy into a rat learning martial arts at that point.

10-17-2007, 12:59 PM	#23
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	I dunno ... I mean, i know we're suspending disbelief and all, but I like to think of the TMNT universe as a normal world that has been touched by the supernatural. So Splinter should have been, I think, a normal rat, until he came in contact with the mutagen. But he was ... a super-rat already.

10-17-2007, 02:01 PM	#24
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,684	Well, the thing is, Mutagen turns you into the last thing you touched. Bebop and Rocksteady were probably made to touch, pet or get licked by the rhino and the warthog before Shredder spilled the Mutagen on them. Maybe Yoshi had a few rats around him before he touched the turtles. He was taking a stroll down the sewers before he came back and found the turtles in the ooze. Their bitter rivarly... hm... Shredder got Yoshi kicked out of his own clan, plus, he turned the 'once noble Foot Clan' into 'an army of crime'.... and deep down he knows Splinter's the only one that can kick his ass in a fight, should he interfere with his plans... so yeah... Splinter hates Shredder... and Shredder wants Splinter taken out. As for the rat version... I think Eastman and Laird already went back and said he was some kind of super-rat already, since not only did he learn martial arts from a cage, he also lived over 10 or so years BEFORE encountering the ooze, which already surpasses the hell out of normal rat years. Adding the 15 years it took for the turtles to fully mutate, Splinter shouldn't have been alive in the first TMNT issue.

10-17-2007, 04:48 PM	#28
odupianist Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,744	It was meant to be parody AND it was only supposed to be one issue.

10-17-2007, 05:41 PM	#29
Mr._Mutant_Man Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,340	Maybe it will be one of the things Laird goes George Lucas on?

10-17-2007, 07:52 PM	#31
cross Thug Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 76	.......... Last edited by cross; 12-04-2007 at 06:44 AM.

10-17-2007, 08:11 PM	#32
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	I think that if Kevin and Peter redid the story, they would keep Splinter's origins. Had they kept Splinter's story straight across all universes, the competition for my absolute favorite would be an even closer call between the 2k3 toon and the Archie comic (but 2k3 would still win due to its Leonardo focus). They could have still had the betrayal and expulsion plot with Splinter as Yoshi's rat. Yoshi would have passed away of sadness and Splinter could still want to avenge him in a way. __________________ Turtles fight with honor!!!

10-17-2007, 08:25 PM	#33
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,398	Cartoon origin, it's just more comical to think they took an origin THAT dark and made it something that could be easily accessible I've always loved innovation over the original idea __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

10-18-2007, 08:17 AM	#34
odupianist Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,744	Okay, NO ONE can say a rat learning ninjitsu from a cage is silly/proposterous/outrageous/undoable. We all love a show about four mutated ninja turtles, I mean really.

10-18-2007, 10:02 AM	#35
BigApple3AM Mad Scientist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Supermarket Aisle Posts: 1,635	I always looked at the cartoon origin like Ooze/Mutagen combines the subjects DNA with the last thing that touched them's DNA. Therefore, splinter's transformation scene could go like so: Yoshi touches turtles, then touches rats. Turtles come in contact with mutagen, Yoshi comes in contact with mutagen. Turtles then change into half way to humans, and Hamato Yoshi turns half way into a rat. Last edited by BigApple3AM; 10-18-2007 at 12:11 PM.

10-18-2007, 11:25 AM	#36
Time Mistress Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennshellvania, or the 79th level of Null-Time Posts: 710	Neutral. They both work. I'm more used to the comic origin now, but I find I still quite like the OT one. __________________ AKA the Edwardian Adventuress and Fairlady_Z "You just made your last mistake, Bugeyes -- 'cuz nobody beats up my best buddy and gets away with it -- Nobody! Got that?!" Raphael about Michaelangelo, TMNT Volume 1

10-19-2007, 12:05 AM	#38
Sage Ninja Band of the Hawk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 3,926	I prefere the classic cartoon origin of Splinter being Yoshi that was framed by Shredder and cast out of the foot clan so that Shredder could take his place. I just think that the bitter rivalry between Yoshi and Saki was a good one and added something to the whole plot. However I really wish that the old show had gone more deeply into the Saki being Yoshi's student angle a bit more. You never really know why exactly Saki hated Yoshi so much other than the fact that he hates says he he hates him. And it would have been nice to find out when exactly Shredder became the Shredder. __________________ Cassandra: You won't fight me, but will you fight--for him! Cassandra's Revenge ~Tangled the Series ________________________________ http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/ _______________________________ http://nox-artemis.tumblr.com/post/4...k-and-feminism

10-19-2007, 09:08 AM	#40
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,684	Saki was probably jealous that Ysoshi was a better fighter than him and leader of the Foot. He probably felt he'd be a much better leader. I guess, to not risk that Yoshi would one day return to defeat him or expose him, he followed him to New York and tried to kill him off with the Mutagen. Shouldn't Krang have told Shredder what exactly the ****in Mutagen DOES before giving it to him to destroy Yoshi? And just how did Krang know that 'Yoshi was given the powers of the rats'??? Just how long were Shredder and Krang spying on them and how come they don't know the location of their lair????