"Demons and Dragons" episode discussion

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

OK, I'll clarify.

Not all anime influences are bad. Avatar is good because it uses its anime influence to support the story, instead of the other way around as the bad ripoffs do. Some of the visual influences of the earlier 2k3 seasons (the standard "speed" background, for one) played the same support role IMO. And they never went too far with it. (though Leo holding the Sword of Tengu in Return to NY was close, heh)

My problem with the Lost Season anime influence so far is that it's overriding the "Turtle" feel. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles don't need to announce their attacks as they do them. ("Neck Snap!" *crunch* and the like.) They just kick butt as ninjas do, silent and efficient. The glowy chi stuff is OK enough, as a visual representation of increased focus, but I can see it becoming a powerup-type deal so easily in the future.

In this episode it made me happy to see Mikey really take to using his focus for stealth... but of course they had to trivialize it by making him goof it up every time. By the end he probably should have been able to get it right, but there goes their plot device, right?

I dunno, my feelings are so mixed. Some things are done the good ol' way, but then some things are so awkwardly thrown together. I love some things and squirm at others. Splinter looks absolutely awesome this season, and I love him being back in the role of protective father. And yet as I watch I can't help but criticize writing and storyboarding choices, where in regular 2k3 I was usually very appreciative of them. Hence my "clumsy storytelling" complaint.

I really hope this gets better... I'd hate to have to give up on another season of Turtles.

And re: Putrescent: Sorry if I offended you, but your history does indeed suggest that you would bring that up, even if you're better about it now. I was just trying to stop that line of discussion before it started, as you were already in "told you so" mode. But whatever... I'm willing to drop it if you are.

The season is over and while I'm not happy about it I keep my opinions about Fast Forward in threads about those episodes.
I was not in any sort of mood or mind set at all, I was simply saying how these episodes are not as great as everyone has been preaching they are.
And everything you just said is what I was talking about exactly, You get it.
I will say one final time now These Episodes Are Only Ok They Are Not Great But They Are Not Sacks Of Crap Either, Got It? Good!
And Yes they do get better, quite frankly I wish they would have gone with the entire world take over thing by demons and zombies only, intead of all of this mystic stuff.

[Leonardo Mystic]

2k3 from the beginning has always implemented attributes of anime in the show. Until now, they've just been a little more subtle. With the Lost Season airing, it's jumping out clearer to us because it's using more anime attributes than usual and we've never paid as much attention to it before in earlier seasons.

Remember the scene when Leo cut off Shredder's head? It was all done in wide screen black box, as one person has already mentioned. It was a dramatic and anime way to show it. I've always thought it was cool, and the Lost Season is just as cool.

The anime attributes has never really bothered me. It may be that I've never been into anime, except for Pokemon. So I guess I'm not spoiled in that way.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Leonardo Mystic

Remember the scene when Leo cut off Shredder's head? It was all done in wide screen black box, as one person has already mentioned. It was a dramatic and anime way to show it. I've always thought it was cool, and the Lost Season is just as cool.

Ummm no, they've been doing this in movies forever, it's nothing new, especially in animation, even though yes it's very cool.
And Film has been around a heck of allot longer than Anime, so i mean really, not chicken or egg question here.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Ummm no, they've been doing this in movies forever, it's nothing new, especially in animation, even though yes it's very cool.
And Film has been around a heck of allot longer than Anime, so i mean really, not chicken or egg question here.

Well, I've not watched a lot of movies or cartoons where they've used it. So while it may not be new in the industry, it's fairly new to me as a viewer.

[ToTheNines]

Almost forgot to ask:

Did anyone else notice Dinorsaur King ripping off Cloverfield with that stupid commercial of theirs?

[MrPliggins]

I've never been a fan of anime and I don't watch the shows people are comparing this to. That said, it does strike me as a little weird when Raph can turn into a razor blade or Mike can run like the Flash. It almost seems too far-fetched.

Those aspects don't bother me much, and I can enjoy the episode, so it's cool. These episodes have beautiful visuals so far. The writing is good but sketchy like always in 2k3. Nice to see the Ancient One again, too.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Leonardo Mystic

Well, I've not watched a lot of movies or cartoons where they've used it. So while it may not be new in the industry, it's fairly new to me as a viewer.

I was just stating so people don't give Anime more credit than it disserves, it's nice that it's been brought it to animation and all but that's not where it started is all.
But I agree I like when they do it on 4kids tmnt cartoon..

[Scandia]

Why are people here having such a problem with anime? What is wrong with anime? This TMNT happens in Japan- why the problem with the style being influenced by Japanese cartoons?

"is a proud otaku"

[thebrownranger]

There isn't any real problem with anime and I'm not too fond of it either. They just need to know their limits with it if such anime style is used.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Why are people here having such a problem with anime? What is wrong with anime? This TMNT happens in Japan- why the problem with the style being influenced by Japanese cartoons?

"is a proud otaku"

I love some anime, but I consider myself an anime hater. I can't get enough Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, or Gundam Wing, great shows. Then I like Digimon, Pokemon and DBZ for nostalgic reasons.

But when you keep seeing the same old **** all the time with energy aura's, groups of elite fighters and the sort, plus all the Yugioh ********! it gets old. Then you have **** even worse than anime created by and for Americans that is just a half ass cartoon.

[TerranigmaFreak]

That said, it does strike me as a little weird when Raph can turn into a razor blade or Mike can run like the Flash. It almost seems too far-fetched.

That is the number 1 most disappointing aspect of TLS. Trust... it gets WORSE. What you saw was just a hint of what's to come in terms of "fighting" throughout most of the series. It's not 100% like that and there are some traditional fights, but when they use their magic powers it'll only get worse. You'll probably see a hint of it in the next episode.

But when you keep seeing the same old **** all the time with energy aura's, groups of elite fighters and the sort,

You mean kinda like... Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-men, Ratmen, Catman, Fartman, Genericman, etc.? I actually like anime... well... some anime, but to say this is a problem with anime is laughable.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Why are people here having such a problem with anime? What is wrong with anime? This TMNT happens in Japan- why the problem with the style being influenced by Japanese cartoons?

"is a proud otaku"

It's taken over everything, it's like music now there's no variety.
It was fine for awhile but now it's just like everything else, I grow tired of it and would like to see other things be given a chance.

[Masked Ninja]

I loved the changing aspect ratios they did a lot in 2k3 - it may be an anime technique but in context of Turtles it always made me think of comic panels. Especially when they'd throw up 2 or more panels showing the scene from different angles.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

I loved the changing aspect ratios they did a lot in 2k3 - it may be an anime technique but in context of Turtles it always made me think of comic panels. Especially when they'd throw up 2 or more panels showing the scene from different angles.

Yes, and I believe they also did it in the Maxx Cartoon that was on mtv..man I wish they'd bring that out on dvd uncut...

[Spitfire]

Season 5 was exciting the first time I watched it, then I thought about it and the appeal of the episodes being new wore off and I just don't care to much for them.

The animation is horrid, I know I said this before but honestly stacked up to the rest of the series the backgrounds just look terrible. It also contains the worst episode of any turtles series in the history of Ninja Turtles, Fathers and Sons...ugh.

I mean it's not the worst thing ever and I see why people like it but I think allot of people are making excuses for it because it's different and new. I mean when it first came out everyone was all excited about it now that it's airing however I see more negativity towards it and I think people are starting to see it for more then something special.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Yes, and I believe they also did it in the Maxx Cartoon that was on mtv..man I wish they'd bring that out on dvd uncut...

There's further proof for you that they're actually trying to bring to mind the experience of reading a comic. Anime never came to mind when I saw that technique.

[Buslady]

Hey isn't it nice to see the 2K3 TMNT back on tv? Sure I know the REAL season 5 isn't all super fantastic but hell, I'm enjoying it!!! It's nice to see them acting NORMAL than like immature jerks as in...that...other show.

[BubblyShell22]

I agree with that. I haven't seen much anime, but I'm glad to see the series take a turn with the fantasy aspect of things. Sure, it may not be the best fight scenes as previously shown, but it's better than having nothing to fight about. Plus, I love the fact that there are better villains than in that other show I watched.

Okay, now I'll actually give you a rating of the episode in terms of plot. I loved it for the plot aspect. It was great to see the Turtles achieve chi energy and to get their weapons. When Leo didn't get his, I was a little disappointed, but I know from watching these episodes elsewhere that he will get his moment to shine. I absolutely loved Mikey's imitating the Tribunal and his sneaking across the bridge, as well as his line, "Real world this!" to Leo. Seeing Leo get hurt was dramatic as always, but that's what I liked about it. I also loved Splinter's overprotectiveness of his sons, something I've missed for a long time. It was also great to see The Ancient One and to hear him chastise Mikey in the way he did.

Overall, I thought this episode was great, and I'm looking forward to seeing all the others as well. Who cares if it rips off anime? At least we're getting the Lost Season shown on TV, and I think that's what we need to be thankful for. Forget all the negative aspects of it and just be thankful that we have anything new to watch at all.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Buslady

Hey isn't it nice to see the 2K3 TMNT back on tv? Sure I know the REAL season 5 isn't all super fantastic but hell, I'm enjoying it!!! It's nice to see them acting NORMAL than like immature jerks as in...that...other show.

Yes it's so nice to see Mikey acting himself again, oooh wait..

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Why are people here having such a problem with anime? What is wrong with anime? This TMNT happens in Japan- why the problem with the style being influenced by Japanese cartoons?

"is a proud otaku"

You know what bugs me about when someone adopts anime? They only adopt certain things, and make a gross generalization about them. Look at Loonatics. That was supposedly "anime" inspired. By inspired, I mean, of course, some guy saw 5 minutes of Dragon Ball Z and decided to take the most obvious flavors out of them, and exploit it.

It's like saying all Western animation is Looney Tunes and taking something from that as a "Western Inspired show."

No No No!

Not every Anime is Naruto or DBZ. There are pretty much sitcom-y style shows like Kochikame, kid's edutainment like Doramon, and random others I'm too lazy to list.

to tie in with this:

It's taken over everything, it's like music now there's no variety.
It was fine for awhile but now it's just like everything else, I grow tired of it and would like to see other things be given a chance.

What bugs me about this is the only animes that have taken over are popular ones. And there's little variety in those ones. Gundum/Cowboy Bebop/Akira knockoffs for boys, Whiney "I'm so ugly dispite the fact I'm drawn the ssame as every other girl, and guy in this comic" Shojos. That's why I bust a gut when they brought Shin-chan over here. Problem is, they tend to make the dub sound like a Family Guy knockoff. If something truely original came over here (why I mentioned unpopular ones in the states earlier), then I'd pay attention. That said, I'm loving Nerima Daikon Brothers.

EDIT

Hey isn't it nice to see the 2K3 TMNT back on tv? Sure I know the REAL season 5 isn't all super fantastic but hell, I'm enjoying it!!! It's nice to see them acting NORMAL than like immature jerks as in...that...other show.

Quoted for Truth. Not so much I dislike the other show for being the other show, but the fact they oversimplified stuff really ruined the show for me.