Superheroes? or not Superheroes? - Page 2

**Karpo_007** · 03-20-2003, 11:09 AM

Yeah, if they see criminals attacking innocent people, they will probably interfere. But they didn't battle the foot because they are "evildoers".

**HorseTechie** · 03-20-2003, 11:30 AM

Yeah... I don't think the TMNT were intended to be superhereos when they first came about in the Mirage comics. They certianly didn't have that "with great power comes great responsiblity" take. The only superhereo connection they had was that it was a spoof from Daredevil and Ronin. Splinter only taught them to be ninja for two reasons: to avenge the death of Splinter's master, and to show them how to stay hidden from the human world.

But when the first cartoon came out, it seemed they wanted to give them more of the superhereo feel. Which makes me wonder, how one does one define "Superhero". If the fanboy thinks it has to be a human, with powers not typical to humans (i.e. leap the Empire state building in a single bound, or shoot webbing from their wrists), and run around in spandex outfits having innocent civilians from harm, then of course that fanboy will not think
a Ninja Turtle is a superhero.

But then you look at the established superheroes, like Batman, Daredevil, or the some of the Xmen... and aside from running round in ass-tight outfits, they don't really have "super" powers that aren't like what the TMNT may have.

I'm not much of a fan of superheroes, but I can see how one can make a
good arguement as to how the TMNT can be. Since they had started off
as a parody of Daredevil (who also had gotten his 'powers' from a can of radioactive substance) then how does that differ from the TMNT? The turtles also have gotten their 'powers' from a can of rather similar looking radioactive substance. Of course, it was called a mutagen, which caused a
mutation. All of which seems to be a different concept from a
superhero getting powers. Hrmm... sounds like the same kind of
concept to me. Cause if Peter Parker wasn't going through a kind of
mutation when he became 'Spiderman', I dunno how else to describe
that.

Now that I have thoroughly confused everyone, I go now...

ZigFB · 03-20-2003, 02:51 PM

I say, we leave it at monkeys.... And the new comics don't really suck, they're trying to give everyone time to get themselves familure with the return. Also, if you read 1 - 8, they really aren't that bad. They tend to hold together pretty well, and the turtles look great, however the humans don't... Mick Jagger lips and all...

Sparvid · 03-20-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermik

I'm sure that all TMNT fans think that TMNT are superheros!

Well, seeing how "NOPE" has got 11 votes so far, I would guess that you're wrong...

lhb412 · 03-20-2003, 09:10 PM

If I remeber correctly the dictionary deffinition of a Super-Hero is a hero with special powers or abilities. The TMNT are giant walking talking Turtles but they have now super powers so I'd classify them with Batman, Zorro, and the Green Hornet: Action Heros.

Donatello · 04-14-2003, 08:40 PM

i hate to bring up old threads, and i'm sorry, but i think a quote from the original mirage's "return to ny" should clear this up

Donatello: We're not the guardians of society raphael...we never were

*Nickokapo* · 04-14-2003, 09:21 PM

Karpo already quoted that

but it's ok anyways.
Well i do not think of the turtles as superheroes, they do not have super powers, neither where they looking for justice, they were looking for revenge.
Now if we are talking about the cartoon, i would call em heroes, but just heroes...i dont think they fall into the superhero category.

Aztec General · 04-14-2003, 09:42 PM

There's also a similiar quote in "City At War". In fact there the TMNT have a brilliant discussion on their role in society during this saga. At one point Leo (I believe) refers to the Turtle's trouble with the Foot as "Splinter's war" (or something very similar).

The new animated series has gone at great lengths to stress the "Ninja" aspects of the TMNT. In addition Leo, Don, and Raph often kid Mikey for his references to being superheros.

Semi-Spoiler
Episode 12 involves Mikey going off on his own and trying to be a superhero! Which in and of itself states that the TMNT aren't traditional heros to begin with.

So with that being said, I say NO the TMNT are not and were not meant to be superheros in the traditional sense.

Donatello · 04-14-2003, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickokapo

Karpo already quoted that

but it's ok anyways.
Well i do not think of the turtles as superheroes, they do not have super powers, neither where they looking for justice, they were looking for revenge.
Now if we are talking about the cartoon, i would call em heroes, but just heroes...i dont think they fall into the superhero category.

well, so much for my valueable insight

**Karpo_007** · 04-15-2003, 07:02 AM

Well in the new show there are few things that does make them look like heroes. Like trying to save Garbageman. Of course, the whole episode felt kind of out of place to me.

Donatello · 04-15-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Well in the new show there are few things that does make them look like heroes. Like trying to save Garbageman. Of course, the whole episode felt kind of out of place to me.

i liked garbageman, plus they weren't nbeing to heroic, they were just tryin to find thet're buddies.

**Karpo_007** · 04-15-2003, 10:42 AM

They jumped after Garbage man to the water. That iIS heroic, saving even the bad guys. Besides, it was never explained how the TMNT knew some homeless people, and we might never see them again. Thats why it feels kind of out of place compared to other episodes.

*heretic888* · 04-15-2003, 11:13 AM

The turtes definitley arent 'super' heros in that they possess no abilities that a human could not attain.

The turtles in the Mirage format and so on aren't really heros, either, because they dont go out of their war to do heroics. The turtles dont go patrolling.

**HorseTechie** · 04-15-2003, 11:15 AM

Hrmm.. I didn't consider that act a superhero thing. I just thought the TMNT went after the Garbage man to sooth their conscience so they didn't feel like they just killed a guy, unfairly trapped in a wheelchair contraption. You know, to follow more of their bushido teachings of honor, et al.

And... I think the TMNT will have doings with the homeless again... from what I heard.

*heretic888* · 04-15-2003, 11:20 AM

Bushido?? Pssh...

They should have done more research into the show, I think.

Firstly, ninja dont realy do bushido. Thier basic philosophy and approach contradicts bushido in many fronts.

Secondly, bushido doesnt really have a problem with letting someone die.

Thirdly, ah screw it....

**HorseTechie** · 04-15-2003, 11:37 AM

Hey, I didn't write the show. I was just recalling what I heard in the last episode, in all that jazz Saki was telling Leo. Which.. at that point, they seem to be using more of the samurai philo more than anything.

*heretic888* · 04-15-2003, 11:38 AM

which is why they should have done more research. ninja follow budo, not bushido.

**Karpo_007** · 04-15-2003, 12:08 PM

Well they should have explained the homeless people... It was big deal to Splinter when Aprils saw the turtles, so why are the homeless people any diffrent? And yes, first rules to heroes are that you won't let even bad people die. They do act like heroes in the new cartoon, to some extent atleast.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-15-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

which is why they should have done more research. ninja follow budo, not bushido.

True, although Leo can be kind of samurai-esque at times.
The TMNT are definately more Budouka then Bushi.
(But what about bugei?)

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-15-2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseTechie

Hey, I didn't write the show. I was just recalling what I heard in the last episode, in all that jazz Saki was telling Leo. Which.. at that point, they seem to be using more of the samurai philo more than anything.

You should see my post in new ep. disscusion. It's all about that aspect of it.

View Poll Results: Are the TMNT superheroes or no?
Of course! They fight bad dudes!	11	27.50%
Not sure yet	11	27.50%
NOPE	18	45.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

03-20-2003, 02:51 PM	#23
ZigFB Foot Soldier Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: A trash strewn alley, back against the wall, facing the toughest street gang around... Posts: 212	I say, we leave it at monkeys.... And the new comics don't really suck, they're trying to give everyone time to get themselves familure with the return. Also, if you read 1 - 8, they really aren't that bad. They tend to hold together pretty well, and the turtles look great, however the humans don't... Mick Jagger lips and all... __________________ Donatello: You're a claustrophobic. Casey Jones: You wanna fist in the mouth? I never even looked at another guy before.

04-14-2003, 08:40 PM	#26
Donatello Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ny Posts: 565	i hate to bring up old threads, and i'm sorry, but i think a quote from the original mirage's "return to ny" should clear this up Donatello: We're not the guardians of society raphael...we never were __________________ "There's no way to describe what I do. It's just me." -Andy Kaufman (my biggest inspiration, the TMNT being a close second)

04-14-2003, 09:21 PM	#27
Nickokapo Emperor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Argentina Posts: 5,802	Karpo already quoted that but it's ok anyways. Well i do not think of the turtles as superheroes, they do not have super powers, neither where they looking for justice, they were looking for revenge. Now if we are talking about the cartoon, i would call em heroes, but just heroes...i dont think they fall into the superhero category. __________________

04-14-2003, 09:42 PM	#28
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	There's also a similiar quote in "City At War". In fact there the TMNT have a brilliant discussion on their role in society during this saga. At one point Leo (I believe) refers to the Turtle's trouble with the Foot as "Splinter's war" (or something very similar). The new animated series has gone at great lengths to stress the "Ninja" aspects of the TMNT. In addition Leo, Don, and Raph often kid Mikey for his references to being superheros. Semi-Spoiler Episode 12 involves Mikey going off on his own and trying to be a superhero! Which in and of itself states that the TMNT aren't traditional heros to begin with. So with that being said, I say NO the TMNT are not and were not meant to be superheros in the traditional sense. __________________

03-20-2003, 11:09 AM	#21
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yeah, if they see criminals attacking innocent people, they will probably interfere. But they didn't battle the foot because they are "evildoers".

03-20-2003, 11:30 AM	#22
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah... I don't think the TMNT were intended to be superhereos when they first came about in the Mirage comics. They certianly didn't have that "with great power comes great responsiblity" take. The only superhereo connection they had was that it was a spoof from Daredevil and Ronin. Splinter only taught them to be ninja for two reasons: to avenge the death of Splinter's master, and to show them how to stay hidden from the human world. But when the first cartoon came out, it seemed they wanted to give them more of the superhereo feel. Which makes me wonder, how one does one define "Superhero". If the fanboy thinks it has to be a human, with powers not typical to humans (i.e. leap the Empire state building in a single bound, or shoot webbing from their wrists), and run around in spandex outfits having innocent civilians from harm, then of course that fanboy will not think a Ninja Turtle is a superhero. But then you look at the established superheroes, like Batman, Daredevil, or the some of the Xmen... and aside from running round in ass-tight outfits, they don't really have "super" powers that aren't like what the TMNT may have. I'm not much of a fan of superheroes, but I can see how one can make a good arguement as to how the TMNT can be. Since they had started off as a parody of Daredevil (who also had gotten his 'powers' from a can of radioactive substance) then how does that differ from the TMNT? The turtles also have gotten their 'powers' from a can of rather similar looking radioactive substance. Of course, it was called a mutagen, which caused a mutation. All of which seems to be a different concept from a superhero getting powers. Hrmm... sounds like the same kind of concept to me. Cause if Peter Parker wasn't going through a kind of mutation when he became 'Spiderman', I dunno how else to describe that. Now that I have thoroughly confused everyone, I go now...

03-20-2003, 09:10 PM	#25
lhb412 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 246	If I remeber correctly the dictionary deffinition of a Super-Hero is a hero with special powers or abilities. The TMNT are giant walking talking Turtles but they have now super powers so I'd classify them with Batman, Zorro, and the Green Hornet: Action Heros.

04-15-2003, 07:02 AM	#30
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well in the new show there are few things that does make them look like heroes. Like trying to save Garbageman. Of course, the whole episode felt kind of out of place to me.

04-15-2003, 10:42 AM	#32
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	They jumped after Garbage man to the water. That iIS heroic, saving even the bad guys. Besides, it was never explained how the TMNT knew some homeless people, and we might never see them again. Thats why it feels kind of out of place compared to other episodes.

04-15-2003, 11:13 AM	#33
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	Hmmm The turtes definitley arent 'super' heros in that they possess no abilities that a human could not attain. The turtles in the Mirage format and so on aren't really heros, either, because they dont go out of their war to do heroics. The turtles dont go patrolling. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 11:15 AM	#34
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Hrmm.. I didn't consider that act a superhero thing. I just thought the TMNT went after the Garbage man to sooth their conscience so they didn't feel like they just killed a guy, unfairly trapped in a wheelchair contraption. You know, to follow more of their bushido teachings of honor, et al. And... I think the TMNT will have doings with the homeless again... from what I heard.

04-15-2003, 11:20 AM	#35
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	heh Bushido?? Pssh... They should have done more research into the show, I think. Firstly, ninja dont realy do bushido. Thier basic philosophy and approach contradicts bushido in many fronts. Secondly, bushido doesnt really have a problem with letting someone die. Thirdly, ah screw it.... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 11:37 AM	#36
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Hey, I didn't write the show. I was just recalling what I heard in the last episode, in all that jazz Saki was telling Leo. Which.. at that point, they seem to be using more of the samurai philo more than anything.

04-15-2003, 11:38 AM	#37
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	yup which is why they should have done more research. ninja follow budo, not bushido. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 12:08 PM	#38
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well they should have explained the homeless people... It was big deal to Splinter when Aprils saw the turtles, so why are the homeless people any diffrent? And yes, first rules to heroes are that you won't let even bad people die. They do act like heroes in the new cartoon, to some extent atleast.