Mind Blown. - Page 2

*pannoni1* · 01-13-2012, 08:44 PM

That's what gives 4kids its edge the most- the thought that after an episode there is a decisive victory for the bad guys, something that never happened in any incarnation (don't count early parts of multi-parters). We need a Tragedy from time to time (just like how the great playrights have a nice mix of comedies, tragedies, and histories). In the real world, there is always a tragedy in some form happening (murder, assault, kidnapping), so watching stuff like the OT can lead you to believe "in case of an emergency, help is always on the way and everything will be fine." It just becomes so predictable that it takes away the edge. Since Mirage first came out at the cusp of the Bronze age and the beginning of the Dark/Copper/Iron Age in comics, it really gives justice to that era with some of these episodes. The OT is really just a cartoon version as if TMNT was a Silver Age comic.

~~ABrown~~ · 01-15-2012, 07:33 PM

It's kinda like, if you ever at some point needed an episode of this show to say "this isn't the original ninja turtles cartoon", this was it. This episode was to this show what "Shredderville" was to the original cartoon. I mean this episode nearly left me in tears.

FearlessLeader · 01-20-2012, 01:37 PM

I agree with a couple different posters here that I wish more fallout had come from Donatello emotionally from this episode.

Yeah he was excited to see his brothers when they all meet up again, but maybe he could have had a nightmare about losing them, or start to get really intense about building security measures for a while because he can't get the feeling of losing his family off his mind. Heck even some sort of conversation with Splinter about it.

Just something, I love "Same as it Never Was", I personally think it's one of the best episodes of the series but I did see Don's non-reaction to it as kind of a flaw.

The only thing I can think it maybe they thought it would end up being too much like Leo and his uber intensity in season 4??

NameGoesHere1066 · 01-23-2012, 10:27 AM

I like "Same as it Never Was", it was a good plot and Donny was badass in this one which allowed him to step out of his typical "nerd of the group" role and allowed him do som,ething more than all the techy stuff. Actually I felt they gave Don alot of growth in this series and he encountered more crap than anyone else in the series.

Also, SAINW is possiably the only time I took 2k3 Mikey seriously. and no it's not because he's all dark and brooding, I thought he was genuanly handled well and made the most impact on me of all the characters during this skit. Plus whoever voiced Mikey really sold it. Such a contrast to his shrieky grating voice he normally speaks with.

*Donnie* · 01-23-2012, 02:17 PM

I believe it was still Wayne voicing Mikey. I'm not sure though.

Donatello (arguably) got the most development and screen time because PL was incredibly at the helm as evidenced by his 4Kids notes he posts on his blog. As Don is PL's fav, I would imagine he paid him special attention. He wouldn't even let Donnie say "yeah" or hardly anything informal!

FearlessLeader · 01-23-2012, 11:26 PM

It was still Wayne. The voice actors all did every version of their Turtles throughout the series. It's funny thinking about them doing the tot versions

I know Mike got sick of talking in Leo's "batman voice" during his broody stage, he was telling a story about it at a panel one time.

Leonardo Mystic · 01-23-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader

It was still Wayne. The voice actors all did every version of their Turtles throughout the series. It's funny thinking about them doing the tot versions

I know Mike got sick of talking in Leo's "batman voice" during his broody stage, he was telling a story about it at a panel one time.

Oh, yes. Mike was very unhappy about it. He really didn't like Leo acting like that.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 02-01-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pannoni1

That's what gives 4kids its edge the most- the thought that after an episode there is a decisive victory for the bad guys, something that never happened in any incarnation (don't count early parts of multi-parters). We need a Tragedy from time to time (just like how the great playrights have a nice mix of comedies, tragedies, and histories). In the real world, there is always a tragedy in some form happening (murder, assault, kidnapping), so watching stuff like the OT can lead you to believe "in case of an emergency, help is always on the way and everything will be fine." It just becomes so predictable that it takes away the edge. Since Mirage first came out at the cusp of the Bronze age and the beginning of the Dark/Copper/Iron Age in comics, it really gives justice to that era with some of these episodes. The OT is really just a cartoon version as if TMNT was a Silver Age comic.

Cartoons weren't that dark 20 years ago.

*ZariusTwo* · 02-01-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pannoni1

That's what gives 4kids its edge the most

The 4Kids cartoon having an "edge" didnt make it stand out though did it?

Quote:

We need a Tragedy from time to time

What a retarded mentality. No, DON'T need to be reminded of real life in what is supposed to be escapist television.

Quote:

In the real world, there is always a tragedy in some form happening (murder, assault, kidnapping), so watching stuff like the OT can lead you to believe "in case of an emergency, help is always on the way and everything will be fine." It just becomes so predictable that it takes away the edge

And what exactly is wrong with a wholesome message like "there are role models on the way and everything will be fine"? It's a hell of a better message than "If your loved ones are hurt, strike down your enemies and gut them out of vengeance", represented by the "edgier" but NICHE comic Turtles. Yawn.

"Edgier" one-note cartoons ultimatley become tiresome. Hell the 4Kids cartoon ended up toning itself down considerably to appeal to kids more in it's last two seasons because it had ran out of things to say very quickly with it's previous format.

Quote:

The OT is really just a cartoon version as if TMNT was a Silver Age comic.

The Silver Age of comics are more wholesome and fun than ANY comic in the modern age. Role models, traditional good vs evil with no shades of grey. Predictable? Yes. Life affirming and positive? Yes.

Comics reflecting "real life" are comics without imagination...and yeah, least I forget, nobody in the mainstream CARES ABOUT THEM

Take your "edge" and shove it.

*Spitfire* · 02-01-2012, 01:39 PM

I'm not 10 anymore and my life doesn't suck so hard I need everything to be wholesome and free of tragedy to stave off wanting to kill myself so I prefer stories grounded in some form of reality with real characters. It's near impossible to have a real human story with no tragedy which is why most mainstream movies are predictable and utterly boring. Tragedy builds character and causes people to grow. Everything has it even the most basic of kids shows. Sure it's toned down but it's still there.

Projecting real human emotions onto your characters is far from lazy or uncreative. It takes way less skill to write personality lacking moralistic good guys who do what they do because they're...good guys. Writing a believable character with real depth and complexity is very hard to do and very few writers/filmmakers pull it off well. In comics, especially silver age ones, they dumb characters down so much their personalities are near interchangeable.

Super heroes are the worst role models. They teach you to make any kind of difference you need to be a victim of random chance or insanely rich. Superman doesn't help old ladies cross the street he shoots robots with laser vision. As a kid it's nice to fantasize about dressing up in spandex and punching bank robbers in the face but the truth is anyone truly thick enough to try that is going to be eating a bullet. Most "real life" superheroes are comic nerds who dress up like they're going to a convention and walk around on the streets doing nothing. Most, if not all of them, haven't stopped any crimes from actually happening and spend most their time handing out food to homeless people. Something they could do not dressed up like an idiot.

Anyway I'm far from saying 2K3 fits this bill but modern day comics are much better about this then most of the older ones.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 02-02-2012, 02:57 PM

[QUOTE=FearlessLeader;903222]I agree with a couple different posters here that I wish more fallout had come from Donatello emotionally from this episode.

/QUOTE]

It's the same problem like when you have people getting attacked and whatever, most don't seem tro be chocked, just a little bit scared.

Uki · 02-10-2012, 09:24 PM

This episode sounds really interesting. I really hope we get the whole series on DVD soon.

Hermano Dyvas · 02-13-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The Silver Age of comics are more wholesome and fun than ANY comic in the modern age. Role models, traditional good vs evil with no shades of grey. Predictable? Yes. Life affirming and positive? Yes.

Comics reflecting "real life" are comics without imagination...and yeah, least I forget, nobody in the mainstream CARES ABOUT THEM

Take your "edge" and shove it.

Anger management much?

People like different things, we are not one combined mind with the same thoughts, ideas and preferences.

Personally this is one of my favorite episodes of 2003 and I dig the tragedy.

*BubblyShell22* · 02-13-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uki

This episode sounds really interesting. I really hope we get the whole series on DVD soon.

This episode is available on the DVD "Return of the Ultimate Ninja." I doubt it's available anywhere anymore, but SAINW is on there.

*plastroncafe* · 02-13-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The Silver Age of comics are more wholesome and fun than ANY comic in the modern age. Role models, traditional good vs evil with no shades of grey. Predictable? Yes. Life affirming and positive? Yes.

Life affirming and positive? Sure! If you revel in the sexism and racism of the good ol' days. I'll take modern books with their "lack of imagination" over Madmen in Capes anyday.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 02-13-2012, 03:56 PM

The clothes in "Same as It Never Was" reminds of the Archie Future Shark Trilogy.

Hermano Dyvas · 02-17-2012, 12:50 PM

I also like the throwback to this episode in the season 3 finale. Where Karai slashes Leo And Raph goes nuts and jumps to kick Karai. In SAINW Karai counters with her sword and wastes Raph. In the season 3 finale she's either too slow or doesn't want to kill him and lets him kick her.

Moonlight1102 · 02-17-2012, 03:24 PM

Did anyone else think Hun and Baxter Scottman's death was the most gruesome out of all the deaths in the episode? The sickening crunching sound when Ch'rell flat out stomped them sure didn't help.

01-13-2012, 08:44 PM	#21
pannoni1 Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: USA Posts: 3,447	That's what gives 4kids its edge the most- the thought that after an episode there is a decisive victory for the bad guys, something that never happened in any incarnation (don't count early parts of multi-parters). We need a Tragedy from time to time (just like how the great playrights have a nice mix of comedies, tragedies, and histories). In the real world, there is always a tragedy in some form happening (murder, assault, kidnapping), so watching stuff like the OT can lead you to believe "in case of an emergency, help is always on the way and everything will be fine." It just becomes so predictable that it takes away the edge. Since Mirage first came out at the cusp of the Bronze age and the beginning of the Dark/Copper/Iron Age in comics, it really gives justice to that era with some of these episodes. The OT is really just a cartoon version as if TMNT was a Silver Age comic. __________________ http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...d.php?t=37065- MY WANT LIST TMNT FAN CLUB LINK: http://sot.ag/gCjK/ 30 years of Turtle Power! Last edited by pannoni1; 01-13-2012 at 08:53 PM.

01-20-2012, 01:37 PM	#23
FearlessLeader Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Watching Space Heroes Posts: 1,048	I agree with a couple different posters here that I wish more fallout had come from Donatello emotionally from this episode. Yeah he was excited to see his brothers when they all meet up again, but maybe he could have had a nightmare about losing them, or start to get really intense about building security measures for a while because he can't get the feeling of losing his family off his mind. Heck even some sort of conversation with Splinter about it. Just something, I love "Same as it Never Was", I personally think it's one of the best episodes of the series but I did see Don's non-reaction to it as kind of a flaw. The only thing I can think it maybe they thought it would end up being too much like Leo and his uber intensity in season 4?? __________________ Artwork by Jim Lawson

01-23-2012, 10:27 AM	#24
NameGoesHere1066 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: at home LOL Posts: 957	I like "Same as it Never Was", it was a good plot and Donny was badass in this one which allowed him to step out of his typical "nerd of the group" role and allowed him do som,ething more than all the techy stuff. Actually I felt they gave Don alot of growth in this series and he encountered more crap than anyone else in the series. Also, SAINW is possiably the only time I took 2k3 Mikey seriously. and no it's not because he's all dark and brooding, I thought he was genuanly handled well and made the most impact on me of all the characters during this skit. Plus whoever voiced Mikey really sold it. Such a contrast to his shrieky grating voice he normally speaks with. __________________ ]

01-23-2012, 11:26 PM	#26
FearlessLeader Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Watching Space Heroes Posts: 1,048	It was still Wayne. The voice actors all did every version of their Turtles throughout the series. It's funny thinking about them doing the tot versions I know Mike got sick of talking in Leo's "batman voice" during his broody stage, he was telling a story about it at a panel one time. __________________ Artwork by Jim Lawson

02-01-2012, 01:39 PM	#30
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	I'm not 10 anymore and my life doesn't suck so hard I need everything to be wholesome and free of tragedy to stave off wanting to kill myself so I prefer stories grounded in some form of reality with real characters. It's near impossible to have a real human story with no tragedy which is why most mainstream movies are predictable and utterly boring. Tragedy builds character and causes people to grow. Everything has it even the most basic of kids shows. Sure it's toned down but it's still there. Projecting real human emotions onto your characters is far from lazy or uncreative. It takes way less skill to write personality lacking moralistic good guys who do what they do because they're...good guys. Writing a believable character with real depth and complexity is very hard to do and very few writers/filmmakers pull it off well. In comics, especially silver age ones, they dumb characters down so much their personalities are near interchangeable. Super heroes are the worst role models. They teach you to make any kind of difference you need to be a victim of random chance or insanely rich. Superman doesn't help old ladies cross the street he shoots robots with laser vision. As a kid it's nice to fantasize about dressing up in spandex and punching bank robbers in the face but the truth is anyone truly thick enough to try that is going to be eating a bullet. Most "real life" superheroes are comic nerds who dress up like they're going to a convention and walk around on the streets doing nothing. Most, if not all of them, haven't stopped any crimes from actually happening and spend most their time handing out food to homeless people. Something they could do not dressed up like an idiot. Anyway I'm far from saying 2K3 fits this bill but modern day comics are much better about this then most of the older ones. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

01-15-2012, 07:33 PM	#22
~~ABrown~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,831	It's kinda like, if you ever at some point needed an episode of this show to say "this isn't the original ninja turtles cartoon", this was it. This episode was to this show what "Shredderville" was to the original cartoon. I mean this episode nearly left me in tears.

01-23-2012, 02:17 PM	#25
Donnie Something from the Past Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York Posts: 3,256	I believe it was still Wayne voicing Mikey. I'm not sure though. Donatello (arguably) got the most development and screen time because PL was incredibly at the helm as evidenced by his 4Kids notes he posts on his blog. As Don is PL's fav, I would imagine he paid him special attention. He wouldn't even let Donnie say "yeah" or hardly anything informal!

02-02-2012, 02:57 PM	#31
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,480	Problem [QUOTE=FearlessLeader;903222]I agree with a couple different posters here that I wish more fallout had come from Donatello emotionally from this episode. /QUOTE] It's the same problem like when you have people getting attacked and whatever, most don't seem tro be chocked, just a little bit scared.

02-10-2012, 09:24 PM	#32
Uki Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Woodlands, Tx Posts: 337	This episode sounds really interesting. I really hope we get the whole series on DVD soon. __________________ -Proud Member of the Turtle Whacks!

02-13-2012, 03:56 PM	#36
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,480	Clothes The clothes in "Same as It Never Was" reminds of the Archie Future Shark Trilogy.

02-17-2012, 12:50 PM	#37
Hermano Dyvas Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Europe Posts: 355	I also like the throwback to this episode in the season 3 finale. Where Karai slashes Leo And Raph goes nuts and jumps to kick Karai. In SAINW Karai counters with her sword and wastes Raph. In the season 3 finale she's either too slow or doesn't want to kill him and lets him kick her.

02-17-2012, 03:24 PM	#38
Moonlight1102 Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow Posts: 301	Did anyone else think Hun and Baxter Scottman's death was the most gruesome out of all the deaths in the episode? The sickening crunching sound when Ch'rell flat out stomped them sure didn't help.