What are your views on this quote relating to homophobia and masculinity?

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I'll watch this later tonight, thanks a ton.

All good; I may give it a rewatch myself just in case folks here want to discuss!

[Luckyday]

Being gay and effeminate should not be consider the same thing. Sexual identity and sexual orientation don't always go in hand in hand with each other. Being woman is not just solely defined by being attracted to men and there more to manhood then being attracted to women.

[Mayhem]

Yes, there is some homophobia in the UK, but I've never seen anything like the reaction that the Top Gear guys got in Alabama after doing each other's cars up in gay slogans and colours...

[Prowler]

Well, it's related to football. You know how sports are viewed as something stereotypically masculine/manly. So it's not surprising at all that a player who people don't like and who acts a bit whiny or likes to dive gets labeled as "gay"(aka weak). I don't think people actually believe Fernando Torres is gay, though. But anyway, homosexuals are still very stereotyped ad being weak and "wanting to be girls". Many people would describe a homosexual male as a "flower" or "someone who talks with an annoying lisp". The most homophobic types actually believe there's no such thing as strong and courageous homosexuals, which is retarded since there's plenty of cowardly straight guys.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Yes, there is some homophobia in the UK, but I've never seen anything like the reaction that the Top Gear guys got in Alabama after doing each other's cars up in gay slogans and colours...

That was a intense episode.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Yes, there is some homophobia in the UK, but I've never seen anything like the reaction that the Top Gear guys got in Alabama after doing each other's cars up in gay slogans and colours...

I just watched that on youtube and I wonder why they decided to do such a thing. I don t watch the show, but isn't it mostly about cars? Why did they decide to provoke locals for teh lulz? Felt like a reality show.

[BubblyShell22]

I've heard another slur against gays is calling them "fairies" also. I've heard that term a time or two before.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I just watched that on youtube and I wonder why they decided to do such a thing. I don t watch the show, but isn't it mostly about cars? Why did they decide to provoke locals for teh lulz? Felt like a reality show.

Because the show is a third about the cars, a third about the lulz, and a third about the banter. I think they knew it might provoke some reactions, but not nearly as intense and dangerous as they got. Gonna be interesting how the edit for the Argentina episode goes, because it sounds like that was even worse.

[Candy Kappa]

I'm not an car enthusiast, but I absolutely love Top Gear. The real Top Gear, the other versions not so much. the humor and banter between Clarkson, Hammond and May

[Metalwolf]

I've mainly seen it as male posturing and little more then a dong swinging contest. Sure there is some dislike of gays, but the main root of it is the ultimate insult of being compared to a woman. Gays are 'not-quite-there' as far as masculinity goes, but the guys know that it's still another man they are talking to. But ever notice that? The gay man is not quite there, so he must be close to the level of a *eww* woman.

[plastroncafe]

Well there's being compared to a woman, and then there's also the chance that they might be treated the way that they themselves treat women.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Well, it's related to football. You know how sports are viewed as something stereotypically masculine/manly. So it's not surprising at all that a player who people don't like and who acts a bit whiny or likes to dive gets labeled as "gay"(aka weak). I don't think people actually believe Fernando Torres is gay, though. But anyway, homosexuals are still very stereotyped ad being weak and "wanting to be girls". Many people would describe a homosexual male as a "flower" or "someone who talks with an annoying lisp". The most homophobic types actually believe there's no such thing as strong and courageous homosexuals, which is retarded since there's plenty of cowardly straight guys.

True, But it just so happens that I saw this social science debate touched on on a football forum. The debate will be going on on non-sport forums too.

Nah, they certainly don't think guys like F Torres are gay, it's just homophobia and a way to belittle someone. And yeah, it's amazing there seems to be some sort of link between homosexuality and weakness or softness for homophobes. As you say, there are plenty of straight men who have no guts. It's probably due to a misunderstanding of 'camp' men.

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I've mainly seen it as male posturing and little more then a dong swinging contest. Sure there is some dislike of gays, but the main root of it is the ultimate insult of being compared to a woman. Gays are 'not-quite-there' as far as masculinity goes, but the guys know that it's still another man they are talking to. But ever notice that? The gay man is not quite there, so he must be close to the level of a *eww* woman.

You think so? I don't always think of it that way. But it does make sense since there are plenty of sexists and misogynists about. It still seems strange in a way because men love women physically, but some still see it as acceptable to assign negative attributes to girls/women and, as you say, imply that gay men are 'closer' to women than they are to being real men. The whole thing is fvkced up.

A lot of it is what I talked about earlier - a desire to come across as alpha and manly and the more I think of it the more the original quote is sensible. I know I had a bit of a preoccupation with masculinity for a long time since I'm quite a boyish person. But I never felt that calling other men gay would make me seem more manly. I find the whole idea pathetic to be honest. Clearly major sings of insecurity.

[slashpieturtlemix]

Originally Posted by Davetello

True, But it just so happens that I saw this social science debate touched on on a football forum. The debate will be going on on non-sport forums too.

Nah, they certainly don't think guys like F Torres are gay, it's just homophobia and a way to belittle someone. And yeah, it's amazing there seems to be some sort of link between homosexuality and weakness or softness for homophobes. As you say, there are plenty of straight men who have no guts. It's probably due to a misunderstanding of 'camp' men.





You think so? I don't always think of it that way. But it does make sense since there are plenty of sexists and misogynists about. It still seems strange in a way because men love women physically, but some still see it as acceptable to assign negative attributes to girls/women and, as you say, imply that gay men are 'closer' to women than they are to being real men. The whole thing is fvkced up.

A lot of it is what I talked about earlier - a desire to come across as alpha and manly and the more I think of it the more the original quote is sensible. I know I had a bit of a preoccupation with masculinity for a long time since I'm quite a boyish person. But I never felt that calling other men gay would make me seem more manly. I find the whole idea pathetic to be honest. Clearly major sings of insecurity.

I saw a stand up sketch on youtube about it and he made the most sense. It is pretty much men trying to put down other men who show feelings. I think it is more of the boot camp mentality. You want to prove yourself a manly man so you do not want to be anything below a man. Anything else is unmanly. No matter the terminology.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by slashpieturtlemix

I saw a stand up sketch on youtube about it and he made the most sense. It is pretty much men trying to put down other men who show feelings. I think it is more of the boot camp mentality. You want to prove yourself a manly man so you do not want to be anything below a man. Anything else is unmanly. No matter the terminology.

Yeah, I think that's another major aspect. The whole 'boys culture' and the notion that sensitivity or vulnerability are signs of weakness and something expected of women and not men. This leads to a hierarchy.

Personally I never have a problem showing my feelings and I don't feel insecure about it. I'm lucky that I never had that problem because I know that there are many men out there who are bottling things up because they're scared their mates will take the mickey out of them. There are some very backward areas and societies out there.

[Netkeeper]

So Penny, I came in here to watch that doco, and son of a bitch it was removed.

Know any other links?

[pennydreadful]

... damn.

Leave it with me, I'll do some hunting!

[Netkeeper]

Alrighty. I won't procrastinate on watching it this time. Wonder why it's so difficult to find, though...

[pennydreadful]

I'll just PM you a link; if it's getting taken down everywhere, I don't want to get the boards in trouble by putting a link to it here.

[Gunpowder]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Hmm, well 'fa g' isn't really used as a gay term over here, much less than terms like 'poo f' or 'qu een' or 'faggo t' itself. I'd imagine they don't dwell on that for the most part.

I mean you could say that anything could remind them of a pejorative. Someone could say 'that went up in a poof of smoke' and even though it's used innocently in that context, it might brings back some harsh memories for gay men upon hearing that. Some black people in North America might feel uncomfortable when someone talks about spades in the garden.

Are "poof" and "queen" actually derogatory terms for gays? I've never heard that. Only terms I've seen regularly are fagg0t, queer, and fairy. I've also never heard a black dude be called a "spade." Either that's more common up North, or I'm just that naive.

[slashpieturtlemix]

Originally Posted by Gunpowder

Are "poof" and "queen" actually derogatory terms for gays? I've never heard that. Only terms I've seen regularly are fagg0t, queer, and fairy. I've also never heard a black dude be called a "spade." Either that's more common up North, or I'm just that naive.

I haven't heard poof but queen is mainly an 80s term. There are tons of these lol most of which I would probably just accidently get myself banned with. They is a good bit that are food items / French bakery goods for no apparent reason. Kids these days~