Is Donnie a different type of warrior then the rest of his bros? - Page 2

*victory_angel* · 09-09-2016, 04:50 AM

Raph is physically the strongest because he does like to protect his brothers and family. But he also uses his strength to show his dominance as well which makes him come across as a bully at times.

However, it doesn't need much strength to hurt someone. And yes Raph has hurt his brothers sometimes, both intentionally and unintentionally and both times he had experienced regret in doing so.

Leo is the most skilled out of all of them because he's the eldest. He feels he is expected to master every skill and technique because he feels it is expected. Both as a leader and as the next head of the family. He knows if he makes a bad call, his family suffers for it.

However, his mindset is steeped in tradition and how he feels the team should function. This, unfortunately, does cause friction with his brothers when they can't deliver or refuse to deliver the results he is expecting. And in many cases to ensure a mission goes as planned or to protect his brothers he will go off on his own to take matters in his own hands. Or completely brush aside a suggestion a brother might offer simply because he is wanting to do right by Splinter. When his actions are in actuality the complete opposite.

Mikey is the baby of the family and often the most carefree of the group. He has the most welcoming nature of the four. But even though he doesn't focus and features a rather childish way of behaving, he isn't afraid of kicking someone's tail. Particularly when someone in their family was harmed. He works well with all of his brothers, but his skill set is mostly in complement to Raph.

Donnie while often in incarnations is seen as one of the younger boys. He does have an older soul than his brasher brothers. His skill set works well with each of this brothers, but everything about him does act in complement to Leo. Donnie is quite skilled as a fighter, and while he doesn't exactly ignore the traditional skilled he has been taught, he does however, embrace the concept of innovation since in the current modern age they live in Traditional skills will not always work. And often times the battles he would excel at are the ones where he is able to assess the situation and find a way to find victory. But other battles he excels at are the ones that involve diplomacy over brute force.

The best way I've seen the Turtles team described was through a fanfic I had co-authored with a person name Glazierblue. In the part of the fic that Glazier wrote: Splinter describes a team as being like a tower. A solid team holds a strong foundation and many layers supporting the others around it.

First is the tower itself which would be the leader. This person holds the fortitude to carry the team and possess the strength of the heart and body. This would be Leonardo's role

The second is the walls of the tower...they are the front line defence that reprisents the physical strength and spirit of the team. This is Raph and Mikey's role.

Which leaves Donnie as the foundation. Because he has skills and talents that everyone has required for their very survival and when he is absent...the team crumbles.

WebLurker · 09-12-2016, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Which leaves Donnie as the foundation. Because he has skills and talents that everyone has required for their very survival and when he is absent...the team crumbles.

I think the 2003 cartoon show "Same as it Never Was" showed that happening literally. Not sure if the 2012 version is quite the same, but he has shown to be able to step up and take charge when needed and Leo isn't around (in "New Girl in Town," he was the one that got them away from Snakeweed when they were overmatched and he lead the Turtles minus Leo in the escape from New York in the season two finale, for instance.)

*victory_angel* · 09-12-2016, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebLurker

I think the 2003 cartoon show "Same as it Never Was" showed that happening literally. Not sure if the 2012 version is quite the same, but he has shown to be able to step up and take charge when needed and Leo isn't around (in "New Girl in Town," he was the one that got them away from Snakeweed when they were overmatched and he lead the Turtles minus Leo in the escape from New York in the season two finale, for instance.)

And Splinter also said Raph and Donnie would have been suitable as leaders, but he ultimately chose Leo because he was the only one that asked.

With the tower analogy, we all know the foundation of a building is the load bearing part. It is the lowest part of the of the building and may not appear to matter. But yet without it, the tower would not stand because it's that little slab of concrete supports the entire structure. If a person like Mikey was made the foundation, the team would unstable because while he could support the team, he would not be able to maintain that support.

When Raph took on the role as leader, he initially wanted the role because he believed that as the leader he could order his brothers to do whatever he wanted. And then when Mikey got hurt, he blanks out because he didn't realize that leadership also dealt with respocibility of maintaining the safety of his group mates. And he openly admits that he hates the burden. So in later episodes when he takes up the role as leader, he acknowledges that he does hold himself responsible for his family.

Sometimes in the support role, you do need to occasionally step into the role of the tower or one of the walls to keep the team standing. They are the ones who maintain the balance of the said team. When Donnie took up the reigns of leader in New Girl because he was the only one who had the mindset to see they needed to get out of there. Mikey was unconscious and Raph was freaking out.

In Paracitica Donnie does take a leadership role in Leo's absence, but he is also the first to sense something was completely off with Leo.

Manhatten project, Donnie becomes the leader of his group when he's separated from his brothers. Because even though he is worried about where his brothers were sent and how he could possibly get them back. But he is also aware he can't focus on his brothers, his focus has to be on keeping both April and Casey alive in their current predicament.

And in the second invasion, Donnie's focus is getting Leo and the team somewhere safe where they can regroup so he had to inform his brothers that had to pack what supplies they needed. But only take one thing that was meaningful. Following the evacuation, however, there is a clear shift in power from Donnie to Raph. But it's never clear how or why that shift occurred.

However often in series battles, when Leo, Raph, or Mikey are absent. The team is still able to funtion, they don't function as well as they would if they did have said brother. And they are shaky when one brother has to move to double up or maintain two different roles to maintain the slack their missing or fallen brother has left. Though at times April or Casey also fits neatly into that role as a temporary fix.

But if you look at the fights where Donnie is absent, his team struggles to maintain itself until Donnie joins the fray. The only real acceptions are the battles when the Fugitoid was with the turtles because he also takes on Donnie's support role.

The Happy One · 09-12-2016, 05:56 PM

I would make an argument but Marvel literally covered it all- and perfectly at that.

Donnie is just...Donnie. He's not not the type of fighter his brothers are because he doesn't train hard enough- its because Donatello looks at battle in a vastly different way. When fighting he takes on so many factors, probabilities and applies that to his strategy, making him powerful in that aspect.

In the same way Raph has brute forec but he isn’t swift. In the same way Mikey has such a feasible, natural tallent in the heat of battle, but lacks focus. In the same way Leo is swift and focus, but isn't as natural, isn't as brute and often relies on Don's strategic in battle- isn't as lithe as Donnie.

They all have strengths, and Donnie's lies in his head. I hate when people get on him for that when half of the time it's his mental strength that gets them out of a bunch of their problems to begin with so...?

They all rely on each other, and they don't need Don to be the strongest physically like they are...because they aren't nearly as strong mentally. They need that from him. They love em for it. I know that's one of the things I love about Don. It's a different kind of strength.

Cjmart019 · 09-12-2016, 06:18 PM

Donny does the sweetest moves, and does a lot of show boating in the Nick Series, though. Mikey may have the most potential, but I think he is the weakest in the team. Again as mentioned, they are all superb fighters but among the best fighters there will be those who will have a bit of an edge compared to the others.

Technogeek29 · 09-12-2016, 10:31 PM

Despite his pacifistic nature in most versions, Mirage and IDW Don have no problem getting their hands dirty/bloody if the situation calls for it. In their first outing with Slash, Don was trying to convince the team that killing Slash was the only way they could stop him (he wasn't wrong) But Leo wanted to abide by Splinters no killing rule. During the war with Krang, the others wanted to head to the frontlines but while that role was important Donnie saw it as pointless and worked with Honeycutt on an E.M.P. instead to end the war. Strangely enough Don's dark side is simply putting logic over emotion he so good at it even Shredder was fooled.

Random Trivia: Notice the one Turtle IDW Shredder writes off as useless is Mikey? Leo he considers a natural warrior, Raph the same fire and warrior spirit Yoshi had in their youth. And Don being so sneaky he has no problem using others for his own means.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 09-13-2016, 07:36 PM

And yet when he got really pissedoff it was Mikey who took him off guard with that incredible kick. I loved that bit. Taken down a peg by the "worthless"one.

*Sage Ninja* · 11-17-2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

And yet when he got really pissedoff it was Mikey who took him off guard with that incredible kick. I loved that bit. Taken down a peg by the "worthless"one.

when did this happen? In the IDW comics? That does not sound like Mikey at all. Also do you have a clip of the scene?

*Powder* · 11-17-2016, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

when did this happen? In the IDW comics? That does not sound like Mikey at all.

Mikey is said to be the best technical fighter in most iterations, it's just that he doesn't focus enough to put it forward a lot of the time. Mirage Mike is pretty brutal, so it certainly sounds like him to me.

*Utrommaniac* · 11-17-2016, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

when did this happen? In the IDW comics? That does not sound like Mikey at all. Also do you have a clip of the scene?

This is where it happens

turtle1237 · 11-17-2016, 09:03 PM

Who conquer Troy? Brute force Achilles? Or the Wits of clever Odysseus?
The answer was Odysseus who took Troy down after ten years, not though brute force, but by battle tactics.

I view Donatello more as the Team's Odysseus.

Ulisa · 11-18-2016, 07:50 PM

I would say, yes, Donnie has a different mindset and approach to fighting than his brothers but I would also argue that all the turtles have their own different approach--

Donnie takes the straight up strategy approach, he's a very logical thinker and sees possible different routes/approaches

Raphael is the straight up brute force, which normally gets a bad rap but it has its place. You want pure strength if you're breaking through barrier/defenses.

Michelangelo is speed/agility something that is needed when you're fighting multiple foes at once and he thinks outside the box.

Leonardo, despite trying to be the best at everything, is a good leader because he knows (or in some iterations, is learning) what the strengths and weaknesses of his brothers are as well as himself, so he knows how to utilize his siblings to make the most of their strengths.

So, while, yes, I think Donnie most certainly is different kind of fighter from his brothers, I would argue that they are ALL different kind of fighters and that's why their team works so well. Donnie may be great at making plans/thinking out the logical solution but those plans are a moot point if you don't know how to put them into effect, how to utilize your team well, or be able to rally them to do what you want. Not trying to downplay his importance but I wouldn't rank his importance any higher than any of the others.

I'd say if you removed ANY of the turtles, the team would collapse, just not in the same way.

09-09-2016, 04:50 AM	#21
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	Raph is physically the strongest because he does like to protect his brothers and family. But he also uses his strength to show his dominance as well which makes him come across as a bully at times. However, it doesn't need much strength to hurt someone. And yes Raph has hurt his brothers sometimes, both intentionally and unintentionally and both times he had experienced regret in doing so. Leo is the most skilled out of all of them because he's the eldest. He feels he is expected to master every skill and technique because he feels it is expected. Both as a leader and as the next head of the family. He knows if he makes a bad call, his family suffers for it. However, his mindset is steeped in tradition and how he feels the team should function. This, unfortunately, does cause friction with his brothers when they can't deliver or refuse to deliver the results he is expecting. And in many cases to ensure a mission goes as planned or to protect his brothers he will go off on his own to take matters in his own hands. Or completely brush aside a suggestion a brother might offer simply because he is wanting to do right by Splinter. When his actions are in actuality the complete opposite. Mikey is the baby of the family and often the most carefree of the group. He has the most welcoming nature of the four. But even though he doesn't focus and features a rather childish way of behaving, he isn't afraid of kicking someone's tail. Particularly when someone in their family was harmed. He works well with all of his brothers, but his skill set is mostly in complement to Raph. Donnie while often in incarnations is seen as one of the younger boys. He does have an older soul than his brasher brothers. His skill set works well with each of this brothers, but everything about him does act in complement to Leo. Donnie is quite skilled as a fighter, and while he doesn't exactly ignore the traditional skilled he has been taught, he does however, embrace the concept of innovation since in the current modern age they live in Traditional skills will not always work. And often times the battles he would excel at are the ones where he is able to assess the situation and find a way to find victory. But other battles he excels at are the ones that involve diplomacy over brute force. The best way I've seen the Turtles team described was through a fanfic I had co-authored with a person name Glazierblue. In the part of the fic that Glazier wrote: Splinter describes a team as being like a tower. A solid team holds a strong foundation and many layers supporting the others around it. First is the tower itself which would be the leader. This person holds the fortitude to carry the team and possess the strength of the heart and body. This would be Leonardo's role The second is the walls of the tower...they are the front line defence that reprisents the physical strength and spirit of the team. This is Raph and Mikey's role. Which leaves Donnie as the foundation. Because he has skills and talents that everyone has required for their very survival and when he is absent...the team crumbles. __________________ Last edited by victory_angel; 09-12-2016 at 02:11 AM.

09-12-2016, 10:31 PM	#26
Technogeek29 Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville Posts: 1,486	Despite his pacifistic nature in most versions, Mirage and IDW Don have no problem getting their hands dirty/bloody if the situation calls for it. In their first outing with Slash, Don was trying to convince the team that killing Slash was the only way they could stop him (he wasn't wrong) But Leo wanted to abide by Splinters no killing rule. During the war with Krang, the others wanted to head to the frontlines but while that role was important Donnie saw it as pointless and worked with Honeycutt on an E.M.P. instead to end the war. Strangely enough Don's dark side is simply putting logic over emotion he so good at it even Shredder was fooled. Random Trivia: Notice the one Turtle IDW Shredder writes off as useless is Mikey? Leo he considers a natural warrior, Raph the same fire and warrior spirit Yoshi had in their youth. And Don being so sneaky he has no problem using others for his own means. __________________

09-13-2016, 07:36 PM	#27
MsMarvelDuckie I Married a Duck! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur) Posts: 8,773	And yet when he got really pissedoff it was Mikey who took him off guard with that incredible kick. I loved that bit. Taken down a peg by the "worthless"one. __________________ "You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end

09-12-2016, 05:56 PM	#24
The Happy One Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: The...Earth?? Posts: 299	I would make an argument but Marvel literally covered it all- and perfectly at that. Donnie is just...Donnie. He's not not the type of fighter his brothers are because he doesn't train hard enough- its because Donatello looks at battle in a vastly different way. When fighting he takes on so many factors, probabilities and applies that to his strategy, making him powerful in that aspect. In the same way Raph has brute forec but he isn’t swift. In the same way Mikey has such a feasible, natural tallent in the heat of battle, but lacks focus. In the same way Leo is swift and focus, but isn't as natural, isn't as brute and often relies on Don's strategic in battle- isn't as lithe as Donnie. They all have strengths, and Donnie's lies in his head. I hate when people get on him for that when half of the time it's his mental strength that gets them out of a bunch of their problems to begin with so...? They all rely on each other, and they don't need Don to be the strongest physically like they are...because they aren't nearly as strong mentally. They need that from him. They love em for it. I know that's one of the things I love about Don. It's a different kind of strength.

09-12-2016, 06:18 PM	#25
Cjmart019 Random Punk Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 40	Donny does the sweetest moves, and does a lot of show boating in the Nick Series, though. Mikey may have the most potential, but I think he is the weakest in the team. Again as mentioned, they are all superb fighters but among the best fighters there will be those who will have a bit of an edge compared to the others.

11-17-2016, 09:03 PM	#31
turtle1237 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 986	Who conquer Troy? Brute force Achilles? Or the Wits of clever Odysseus? The answer was Odysseus who took Troy down after ten years, not though brute force, but by battle tactics. I view Donatello more as the Team's Odysseus.

11-18-2016, 07:50 PM	#32
Ulisa Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Various Fantasy Realms Posts: 145	I would say, yes, Donnie has a different mindset and approach to fighting than his brothers but I would also argue that all the turtles have their own different approach-- Donnie takes the straight up strategy approach, he's a very logical thinker and sees possible different routes/approaches Raphael is the straight up brute force, which normally gets a bad rap but it has its place. You want pure strength if you're breaking through barrier/defenses. Michelangelo is speed/agility something that is needed when you're fighting multiple foes at once and he thinks outside the box. Leonardo, despite trying to be the best at everything, is a good leader because he knows (or in some iterations, is learning) what the strengths and weaknesses of his brothers are as well as himself, so he knows how to utilize his siblings to make the most of their strengths. So, while, yes, I think Donnie most certainly is different kind of fighter from his brothers, I would argue that they are ALL different kind of fighters and that's why their team works so well. Donnie may be great at making plans/thinking out the logical solution but those plans are a moot point if you don't know how to put them into effect, how to utilize your team well, or be able to rally them to do what you want. Not trying to downplay his importance but I wouldn't rank his importance any higher than any of the others. I'd say if you removed ANY of the turtles, the team would collapse, just not in the same way.