Official NEW EPISODE discussion: 119 "Obsolete"

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Puter, from one PR fan to another, I'm begging that you don't become the TMNT equivilant of Platniumred

...I doubt you'd ever go the route of "OMG, VBEST SEAPONZ EVERZ,, SLOANZ WORSHIPPERZ MUSTZ DIEZ" like he does, but you do seem to go apes*it whenever some says they hate this season's childish, badly animated and written direction so far, and I've seen little that could redeem or defend it, even with this episode.

Just knock it down a little.

I know Vernoica's still a part of the show, as she's a poster child for the company on any product they make and they use her regularly, it's just two of her best characters have vanished in the course of a few months, and it's a little unsettling to see her have to adapt with someone new that I could'nt really care about.

Nah there are things I don't like about it also..I mean everything said and done now though..so I really don't see the reason of making a big fussy deal about everything...not saying anyone in particular Just saying that I don't see a point in it...especially when they aren't even really given reason...besides flipping out and going omg what happen to my turtles...this isn't my turtles...and you know they're right it's not...
And yea I'd never go that route haha I didn't even understand a word of that so hopefully I'll never go there
I have also stated that the animation sucks...but honestly I have faith in Peter Laird I know things look bad but I really don't think for a second he will let the show get that bad. I'm just saying we've only seen 2 episodes so far and to at least give the show a chance...before dismissing it....And the one thing I will go ape sh1t over is when people bash red sky tmnt something I happen to really like almost as much as Archie because it wasn't shredder and krang trying to do the 80's super villain thing every week.
and I take it you didn't like the Zarius Dunn joke

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

next week: Robots running amok...oh no...not that....anything..but that...

I smell Omnibus... Perhaps Sarnath is reclaiming his eye. Since Veronica Taylor is in the credits, perhaps April shows up out of nowhere to pull the plug again. Oh! But seriously, the thing about Casey helping to create O'Neil Tech: I'll bet he was just the contractor. Perhaps he was an investor too, but I doubt it. Where would he get money from? Now that I think of it, where did he ever get money from?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Nah there are things I don't like about it also..I mean everything said and done now though..so I really don't see the reason of making a big fussy deal about everything...

It's primairly because a lot of these fans really did appreciate having a TMNT series that dared to do things that previous products from 4Kids have been unable to do, nor willing to do. We got away with more stuff than they cut out of shows like Sonic X's much acclaimed and darker third season.

Seeing a season that symbolises everything 4Kids is, not only is damming, it's genually bad, not like Kids WB demanding something like Batman Beyond and getting a worthy addition to the DCAU (although to be pretty fair the second season of the series nearly caused it to jump the shark with it's bad filler plots)

I have also stated that the animation sucks...but honestly I have faith in Peter Laird I know things look bad but I really don't think for a second he will let the show get that bad. I'm just saying we've only seen 2 episodes so far and to at least give the show a chance...before dismissing it....And the one thing I will go ape sh1t over is when people bash red sky tmnt something I happen to really like almost as much as Archie because it wasn't shredder and krang trying to do the 80's super villain thing every week.

I don't like the Dregg seasons myself, but I did know that change was neccersar by that point, I do support one season of that variation if it helps, the eight with Shredder and Krang being on the run and actually blowing things up for good and undoing in twenty five minutes the TMNT's relationship with humans. A lasting legacy that went to another season.

Here, it's just that I don't beleive change is'nt necceesary, and it was all commercilist driven decisions that led to it. Season six of the original was heavily toy driven and not in the Transformers G1 way of introducing the toys with much depth and a chance to tell a story, things here are the same. Batman Beyond did'nt take two to five episodes in the first season to be awesome, it nailed the series right instantaniously.

and I take it you didn't like the Zarius Dunn joke

I did actually.

[Sliced]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

TV turtles have always been aimed at kids...no matter what you want to believe....the comics aren't.
Your telling everyone not to compare the shows but your really not taking your own advice.
I know it's hard to let go but this really isn't that different from the other show.
Even if it is totally different.

When did I said that the tv turtles weren't aimed at kids ? Never...
I said that one series was more mature, not that it wasn't aimed at kids...

As for ''my own advice'', I'm responding by comparing the 2 shows because I have to, since it was the subject of the post I responded to... I also mentionned that I included myself in the advice I gave so don't worry, I will do as I proposed. Except if I do respond to another post who is comparing the 2 shows.

so I really don't see the reason of making a big fussy deal about everything...not saying anyone in particular Just saying that I don't see a point in it...especially when they aren't even really given reason...besides flipping out and going omg what happen to my turtles...this isn't my turtles...and you know they're right it's not...

Its normal, fans don't like it when something good they love is changed to something completely different. You can't blame someone, especially fans, because something they loved was transformed into something they don't like and that they are expressing their opinions.

We will all continue to watch the new show, and wait for something really good to happen, until then, we will keep saying that we don't or that we do love something about the new show, and these discussions will still take place.

[Aska_Badoura]

This Darius Dunn guy sounds like he has more in common with Agent Bishop than just a voice actor.

Ohhh. *hits self* No wonder he sounded familiar...

Join me, Darius - I AM YOUR FATHER!

Don't say that! It could be true!

After watching the episode, I think it's safe to say Darius Dunn is a distant relative of Agent Bishop. I guess that guy had kids afterall.

This is creeping me out... but then, he may have had descendents even in the Turtles' time... he was a normal human being, once, after all. It's possible Darius is related.

Say it with me boyz and gurlz: It's Ninja Time!

They didn't say that this time... did they? I'm already blocking it out, it seems...

I was surprised Leo was electrocuted... that was actually kind of cool... but it wasn't cool that he was perfectly fine 0 seconds after. Maybe he just covers well-- that Leo, so stoic...

I don't think it was electrocution... more like some kind of body-shutdown before stasis. And it can only affect someone other than the Gunjin when it first starts, apparently, since it didn't affect Darius at all, when he pulled Leo away. *shrug*

And BTW....who else wants Don to come clean about his SAINW experiences since they are in the future?

At least a reference would be nice...

it was like they were just jumping around destroying things on purpose whereas in April's apartment they were trying to help her out with dishes and such and it was more her worrying about things getting destroyed than things ACTUALLY being destroyed and the destruction was accidental.

Splinter thought they needed to train. There wasn't a training room. Hence, make the sitting room a training room. It makes sense to me. They actually didn't destroy anything, just mixed it around a bit. They mostly just upset Serling, which doesn't appear to be too hard. :p

Darius. Wow, the uncle that gets control of the company and keeps the kid locked away. I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE.

Heh, you do have a point. But how many times have you heard of stories (and some actual history), of monarchies with the former king's sibling essentially usurping their nephew? Yes, this is more of a corporate empire, but it's still classic. I can live with it.

You'll be happy to know that the current main title sequence is only temporary. When the show re-premiers in September the real --all original -- main title will be attatched. Due to time constraints it wasn't completed by the early August air dates.

Ahh. I assume you're in the know? Can you post here more often? It's good to hear that. I'm surprised to hear that the Tribunal arc is already finished, though. I was under the impression they'd be going back to work on it after this season.

Sort of like perfecting the format as you get used to the rushed schedule? Nice to hear.

Welcome to the world of TV animation production... :p

1: The turtles will eventually make it back to their time so Don could build all the fun stuff he saw in the future.

I hate paradoxes. But I guess this is all one big paradox waiting to happen...

OO also noticed Silver Sentry's outfit in his collection today. Was there anything else new?

I noticed it last week, but I wasn't sure that's what it really was. You notice the lower legs have been ripped off (at least that's how it appears to me)? That doesn't look good...

I wonder if the Dark Turtles will be the adult Ninja Turtles from this point in time

*stops, stares* I..hope..not. That's scary..

but honestly I have faith in Peter Laird I know things look bad but I really don't think for a second he will let the show get that bad.

Yes, just remind him of TNM... nobody wants that to happen again. Not even me.

I have seen the future...and it is cliche.

LOL! Yeah, that just about sums it up. But TMNT was born from cliche. Mutants, killer monsters, martial arts, aliens... this just seems normal to the Turtle-verse, to me.


Okay, I guess I'm just a freak (no affirmations please :p), but I'm really enjoying this just as much as the other seasons. I was puzzled that they revealed so soon that this Uncle Darius isn't exactly a straight-shooter, but they probably have their reasons. I do see that they're trying to put some younger protagonists in the show, though, to appeal more to a younger demographic, so I'm not completely oblivious. It just doesn't bother me much, though.

Starling's voice actor... a little annoying, but not well-enunciated, either. I had to watch it on closed captioning to understand half of what she said, and even then, I think the captionists may have mis-heard her, also. Why does she have skates? I'm sure there's some pseudo-scientific reason..

Why does Donny always save the girl? At least Raph helped, this time.

I thought it was kind of weird that Darius was guilt-tripping Cody on "your poor departed father", when he's apparently his mother's brother, being a Dunn, rather than a Jones.

Inuwashi Gunjin= Eagle Soldiers. They remind me vaguely of the Y'lentian Avians... except these guys are Japanese. Still could be related, I suppose.

"Once, an age ago, we Inuwashi Gunjin were the most feared fighters in the air... but times change, wars end. We became obsolete... there is no place for honor in this time." Hmm. Interesting.

Counstable Biggles of the Peacekeepers? Well, we have a name to put on our hitlist, now.

Also, it occurs to me, that whenever I'd go back and see the first few episodes of 2K3 after watching stuff from Seasons 3 and 4, that it seemed remarkably juevenile in comparison. It took time for it to climb to the level of quality it was at in the fourth season. So, that may be the case here.

[iris]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

They didn't say that this time... did they? I'm already blocking it out, it seems...

Either they did, or I'm hallucinating.

To everyone crying 'cliche', yeah there are a bunch of cliche elements to the FF stuff (the way the future is portrayed, things like that), but remember that there are only so many stories to be told. Ever read Joseph Cambell's Hero with a Thousand Faces? It's all been done. But it would be nice to have a more 'tutles' slant on things.

I hope it turns out that Dun is a mass murderer.

What.

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

Starling's voice actor... a little annoying, but not well-enunciated, either. I had to watch it on closed captioning to understand half of what she said, and even then, I think the captionists may have mis-heard her, also. Why does she have skates? I'm sure there's some pseudo-scientific reason..

She has skates cuz it's a Neutrino thing? eh I dunno...maybe she can't walk normally or it's just easier for her to get around the science lab and stuff.

Is it just me tho or are any minor good guys not really part of the main cast have Ling in their name? Serling, Starling....

And is she named Starling cuz she's from the Stars or was she named after the annoying bird? Or perhaps a reference to Star Labs?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

Also, it occurs to me, that whenever I'd go back and see the first few episodes of 2K3 after watching stuff from Seasons 3 and 4, that it seemed remarkably juevenile in comparison. It took time for it to climb to the level of quality it was at in the fourth season. So, that may be the case here.

The first season was handled tremendously better in writing than season two ever was, so I really don't see where that's coming from. The humour in every season has been fairly crap so the story is all I go for as well as the animation.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

Why does Donny always save the girl?

"Sometimes, geek power is what it's all about." But, in actuality, the largest concentration of chivalrous guys, aka gentlemen, are what you might consider to be geeks. Psychologically, it's because we-- I mean "they" believe they have nothing to lose. And being into all that elves, goblins, knights and Renaissance Festival kind of stuff *cough*LotR*cough* probably helps to reinforce that notion.

EDIT: Wait. Why'd I post this? It has nothing to do with the episode... So, um... Today's episode was great. In theory, I thought it would take more episodes before they got this comfortable (like ep 3 at the earliest), but they've managed to surprise even me.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by gobo

So, um... Today's episode was great. In theory, I thought it would take more episodes before they got this comfortable (like ep 3 at the earliest), but they've managed to surprise even me.

unless of course they are airing episodes out of order again..."that's our fox!" this fall on fox! *yeah!*

[Jo Dawn]

Originally Posted by Katie

yeah...I doubt that Darius Dun is Bishop.......but a clone....yeah, I can see that....a distant relative....can see that too. I think that he was the one that helped Cody's father "pass"

And BTW....who else wants Don to come clean about his SAINW experiences since they are in the future? And....wants them to at least show a little sadness that Casey and April are long dead? (Like could we see them visit the graves or something? that would be SO emotional)

I haven't watched the ep yet, BUT...

Yeah, Katie, I questioned the lack of emotion in last week's ep thread (but a fight was brewing so it got ignored, haha)...

As for Darius, he COULD be Bishop... we learned that uh... in Insane in the Membrane...

Spoiler:

Bishop has been body-swapped to a new body already, possibly mre than once. No reason to think that they didn't do it again.

EDIT - OK... I can't watch it... Even my TiVo doesn't wanna record this season, since it refused to this morning... a sign, perhaps?

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's primairly because a lot of these fans really did appreciate having a TMNT series that dared to do things that previous products from 4Kids have been unable to do, nor willing to do. We got away with more stuff than they cut out of shows like Sonic X's much acclaimed and darker third season.
Seeing a season that symbolises everything 4Kids is, not only is damming, it's genually bad, not like Kids WB demanding something like Batman Beyond and getting a worthy addition to the DCAU (although to be pretty fair the second season of the series nearly caused it to jump the shark with it's bad filler plots).

Hmm I agree in all honesty tmnt 2003-up till now and red sky are my favorite animated versions of the turtles....I think allot of people say it (red sky) jumped the shark (how come people stopped saying jump the gun btw Columbine?) I'm not really bothered by any of it because allot of it was stuff Peter and Kevin had come up with a long time ago. I guess my reasons for liking Dregg and Mung so much is pretty much the reason I liked a character like Lord Zedd...they came along and took over where other villains could not previal..I mean honestly that entire part where he captured all of the turtles as well as shredder and krang has got to be one of my favorite story lines even if the animation was crap.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I don't like the Dregg seasons myself, but I did know that change was neccersar by that point, I do support one season of that variation if it helps, the eight with Shredder and Krang being on the run and actually blowing things up for good and undoing in twenty five minutes the TMNT's relationship with humans. A lasting legacy that went to another season.

Yep I wish all of that could have lasted a bit longer...I would have liked to have the darker old toon version stay around just a bit more...oh well..

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Here, it's just that I don't beleive change is'nt necceesary, and it was all commercilist driven decisions that led to it. Season six of the original was heavily toy driven and not in the Transformers G1 way of introducing the toys with much depth and a chance to tell a story, things here are the same. Batman Beyond did'nt take two to five episodes in the first season to be awesome, it nailed the series right instantaniously.

I totally agree I'm just really saying whats done is done there really is not point in people getting angry over something that can't be changed though...it's like one of those dreams where you scream and nothing comes out.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I did actually.

yea I actully thought of that while watching the show and it made me laugh.
You and your damn influences *shakes fist*

[iris]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

EDIT - OK... I can't watch it... Even my TiVo doesn't wanna record this season, since it refused to this morning... a sign, perhaps?

I don't know about that... even with all its significant problems and/or annoyances, it was a helluva lot better than last week's show. I am hopeful that they'll keep making it better.

[Zelda]

I wonder if those are actual issues or not--about psychological issues making kids disinterested. I dunno, when I was a kid I watched stuff BECAUSE of those things. Yeah Jem and the Holograms had all the ridiculous glitter that Winx has but it also had a lot of emotional stuff, near death, parents dead, holographic mother and the issues with THAT, orphaned children, etc and I LIKED that and my friends who watched it noticed the same things. I liked Captain Planet for the same reasons. And those are things that made those shows stand out from the others. Doesn't 4kids have ENOUGH kiddie-oriented cheesy empty shows on as it is? bah...and I think if parents don't want their kids watching it, they can STOP their kids from watching it rather than bitch about it to get it changed. If you're so concerned, get a Barney tape and put it on repeat

Training? I don't believe that one... compared to the standing on bamboo they'd do at the lair, jumping around on top of things and knocking them over isn't remotely training >_>;

Ooh yeah, I forgot to mention those things--with the eye coming off and the 'over-comensating' line I was thinking....YES, they ARE trying to sneak in what they can! So I'm keeping my eye out for some other bonuses ;p

Yes, just remind him of TNM... nobody wants that to happen again. Not even me. <- Haha, now that's the truth! We know it won't sink that low!

I agree that there was a definite rise from episode one to the later seasons but even "Things Change" (which I don't much like and never watch unless I'm being completist) was a whole lot better than what we've got here. That was unrefined, this is just...eh... time to go back to the drawing board ;p

[Aska_Badoura]

The first season was handled tremendously better in writing than season two ever was, so I really don't see where that's coming from. The humour in every season has been fairly crap so the story is all I go for as well as the animation.

The Turtles themselves (I'm thinking "Darkness on the Edge of Town" specifically) are really hyper, much more childish than they are later (which is to be expected; they haven't experienced much yet!), and the plots are more simplified (lacking the huge cast of characters at that point): it's not "Bishop was coerced by the Mystics to get the Turtles to take Karai's pendant in exchange for saving Don who was changed by Baxter's accelerant", it's more "Shredder stole a sword that's apparently been in his past, Turtles try to keep it from the bad guys cuz it's powerful". It gets more complicated later, when they have something to build on. I didn't say the writing wasn't good, just that the overall tone was less... convoluted? Here, they're inexperienced kids all over again, adapting to this huge change again. Smaller cast, more simplified stuff. When they start bringing in more references to the earlier seasons, and introducing more characters in this season, then it'll get more complicated.

"Sometimes, geek power is what it's all about."

LOL, that one's my favorite of the shorts.

But, in actuality, the largest concentration of chivalrous guys, aka gentlemen, are what you might consider to be geeks.

'Twas mostly a rhetorical question, but yeah, I think so. Geeks are charming, on the average.

[iris]

Originally Posted by Zelda

I wonder if those are actual issues or not--about psychological issues making kids disinterested. I dunno, when I was a kid I watched stuff BECAUSE of those things. Yeah Jem and the Holograms had all the ridiculous glitter that Winx has but it also had a lot of emotional stuff, near death, parents dead, holographic mother and the issues with THAT, orphaned children, etc and I LIKED that and my friends who watched it noticed the same things. I liked Captain Planet for the same reasons. And those are things that made those shows stand out from the others. Doesn't 4kids have ENOUGH kiddie-oriented cheesy empty shows on as it is? bah...and I think if parents don't want their kids watching it, they can STOP their kids from watching it rather than bitch about it to get it changed. If you're so concerned, get a Barney tape and put it on repeat

I totally feel that. I've always hated glitter, and liked interesting characters in interesting situations, since I was a little kid. I watched He-Man because of the characters, not because Adam ran around yelling "I have the power!" The thing is, it was the "I have the power" type stuff that sold toys, which was the whole reason that the show existed in the first place. Even if 4Kids wants to make a good, quality product, they are under pressure to up the ratings in the target audience and move more merchandise. So... it's Ninja Time.

ETA: I think TPTB are under the impression that kids don't like 'deep' stuff.

[Sliced]

Its because deep stuff doesn't seems to sell alot at all. I'm sure that the FF toys are gonna sell pretty good though. And they seem to be doing them the right way, well so far.

[Masked Ninja]

I had a harder time getting the theme song out of my head today. Curses.

Well, this week I hid in the office to watch FF on the small TV, alone. Kinda shows what I thought of last week's epsiode... I was kinda afraid to have anyone catch me watching this stuff. But of course, I do love Turtles and I am curious to see how the stories and quality develop for this show... so I watched.

This week's impression? A whole heckuva lot better. Splinter's color scheme still throws me off, but it looks like they pushed him a little bit closer to his old design. Old habits die hard, I suppose. The animation, while still not as good as the best 2k3 epsiodes, was still nearly par with the more painful 2k3 episodes... so an improvement, absolutely. Sounds like it's definitely an issue of getting used to the new models. Things are looking up.

Random other observations I had while watching the show:

> IT'S NINJA TIME! whee!

> Darius = Bishop? Or some relation? He's got a weird build, too... like if Hun ever let himself go, complete with muttonchops.

> Oh geez... Splinter and his soaps again. Makes sense they'd still be around after 100 years - and I bet it'd be only six months in soap-opera-time.

> Leo shows a little inititative this week? Back to his assertive self?

> For all you who thought Don was in the background too much in the last series... here ya go!

> For a second I was shocked/horrified at Mikey's mech suit. Surely they weren't nixing the 'chucks, too?! Then I remembered he had 'em in the promo art, and the thing fell to bits anyway. *phew*

> OK, the flying warrior things were kinda cool.

> The "slimy uncle" and "your poor departed father" thing has me having Lion King and Hamlet flashbacks.

> Yay, a blue chick who's amazingly smart. She's OK, but I hope there's a little more to her than that... 'cos that's a bit boring.

> Don's future bo rocks. His is easily the coolest future weapon, I think... or at least it had the coolest "check me out, spinning my new weapon!" shot.

> And I'll echo everyone else on the Casey? creating a tech company? It just doesn't seem like something he'd be interested in.

I still miss the 2k3 series and curse 4Kids heartily for changing formats... but I don't think I'll abandon this just yet. At least it'll make TMNT 2007 pwn that much harder.

[Gary]

With these new weapons, I can't wait for the video game.

[Spitfire]

I havn't watched this one yet but I dispise the art direction...and the comdey is horrible.