Have the Nick TMNT actually accomplished anything?

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Hey, I enjoy the show and watch it all the time with my daughter. I'm just saying... maybe these Nick TMNT should probably consider hanging up their weapons if the bad guys are always just scurrying off none the worse for wear after every single encounter.



There's that, and the simple fact of... even if the police take who the Turtles give them into custody, who would take the stand as witnesses? What evidence would be lobbied against the bad guys? How would the case not be thrown out?

Which is why I've always hated the Batman stories where Batman just deposits a mugger or whatever with a little note next to a police station. It's cool, it's dramatic... but how would that not be laughed out of court?

Because killing bad guys is the only reason a person wants to learn martial arts. If you don't do that, then hang up your weapons.

OK, are you certain you are playing that Arkham game?

As for random muggers... well, there's a reason they're not really Batman's enemies and more of a random inconvenience. I doubt the comics/tv/movies would last as long if they're the main characters.

And if you consider Snakeweed's dismemberment, Xever as a legless creature and Falco aren't worse for wear... then... uh...

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But that response is only given when folks mistake my conversational questions about the show (or other incarnations) as both some kind of inability to identify the show for what it is/who it's for and some kind of innate bloodthirst for Mirage caliber storytelling or something.

How is it not? By saying things like you want them to hang up their weapons or whatever you're implying you want the show over because it's not the way you would do things. It's not hard to take something you enjoy for what it is.

If you really do enjoy the show, just relax.

[Candy Kappa]

The turtles have staled the Kraangs progress in field testing the Mutagen.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Mikey did try to cut that Kraangdroid in the alley thinking he was human.

not to mention flushing Xever and Chris down the sewer, very likely drowning them. All the Foot ninja that was thrown off the roof by being kicked or punched in the Gauntlet episode. Snakeweed, they do try to kill him off.

The Nick Turtles have more ninja potential then the Mirage Turtles.

They do reconnaissance work, keeps to the shadows, use ninja tools such as the egg bomb, using the Shuriken more then ever, although I wish they used Bo shuriken over the Hira ones. Besides the first issue and the Rat King issues, I can't remember any significant scenes in Mirage where the turtles used Shuriken. Hidden weaponry, Don's Bo can become a Naginata and Mikey can turn his Nunchaku to a Kusarigama.

And, don't fight fair, fight to win. A very good lesson by Splinter

[Konchadunga]

Is it just me, or does this Splinter flipflop a lot between an idealist and a devious realist who wants to get the job done? It seems like they can't decide whether they want him to be the voice of reason or just a repository of snarky jokes.

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

My point is that every single threat they've encountered is still out there -- they resolve nothing. If somehow a threat was captured, or imprisoned, or their mutation reversed or something... but every time with everything from "Snakeweed" all the way to "Justin," it goes down exactly the same way: big fight, the Turtles win, and the bad guy escapes into the shadows.

Why even bother then, right?

That's one measure, yes, at which they fail (although even when they don't, as with Baxter Stockman, the baddie was out and about as of his next episode). As others have mentioned, it's not the only one. The prevention of harm is just, if not more important part of being a hero, and they have a considerably better records with that. Maintaining the status quo, while neutral, is an accomplishment.

Which isn't to say that their inability to stop their antagonists in more permanent fashions isn't sometimes annoying, and/or contrived. Sure, there's bound to be some baddies whom they can do little about. Even so, the turtles don't seem at all interested in doing anything that isn't stopping the bad guy du jour from punching them. Why not capture Kraang and attempt to obtain intelligence from them? Why not attempt to expose them to the world? Why not take Snakeweed's heart and attempt to do something more permanent with it--they've known the guy can reassemble.

On a related note, Andrew's observation also reminds me that, in retrospect, Splinter's comment about a state of war existing between them and the Foot feels feels very odd. Just how exactly does what they've been doing imply a war? Just how have they tried to take the offensive, or do anything other than what they always do when it comes to other baddies?

[Shredded]

If the turtles simply just beat the villains the moment they met them and put them away for good.. god that sounds like a boring show.


One of the things I really really like in this show, is that the villains seems like a genuine threat! A genuine obstacle for the turtles to over-come, and they must use brains, as well as learn to be better to beat the villains.

The turtles first faced Bradford.. but couldn't beat him.

then they learned, they faced Xever and Bradford.. and couldn't beat them.
Then they learned again.

Four turtles against Xever and Bradford a second ti,e just managed to beat them! and then the two mutated becoming even stronger, and Donnie out-right said it, him and Mikey together has no chance against Dogpound, he is a threat to them!

And then the Shredder came and beat all four turtles in a minutes flat... all four turtles together, right now stand no chance against the Shredder.

These villains seems like genuine difficult obstacles, they are genuine threats, which is some-thing I like.
It gives the turtles some-thing to do! it's some real adversarries, there's real things at stake.

These turtles needs to grow stronger, smarter and more cunning to beat these villains.
And I like that! there's a real possibility that the turtles will loose when they are in battle in this season, it's actually not. "Oh we all-ready know they are going to win."
No! cause we saw these turtles loosing multiple times all-ready, and that's sort of awesome.

Also remember, one of the big themes of the show is.
"You need to do mistakes to learn from them!"
Or "You learn from your defeats!"

meaning these turtles has to do mistakes, and has to face defeats to learn from it, and they do, and that's damn awesome.

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Is it just me, or does this Splinter flipflop a lot between an idealist and a devious realist who wants to get the job done? It seems like they can't decide whether they want him to be the voice of reason or just a repository of snarky jokes.

Concious of the immediate situation.

Every situation is different, you need to look at every situation in context, and weigh options based on the here and now in each unique situation.

Splinter knows this, and makes decisions based on what he knows, and what he thinks is the safest and wisest thing to do in each given situation.
Treating all situations as different situations, as they are, and where different things must be taken into account. he's a very wise man that way.

He is not always right, as he admitted in "Panick in the sewers." but he tries.

[Stephen87]

I like the show, so yes they have accomplished making me a happy fan.

I didn't like the last cartoon show at all. I was really worried about this new CGI animated show, very badly. It has totally suprised me and it's great.

Turtle Power!!!!!!

[BubblyShell22]

I know the Turtles not beating the villains right away may seem frustrating, but you have to remember that these Turtles are younger and are still learning how to be an effective team and are still training. They aren't going to beat all of the villains in one go. It's going to take time. I don't think they should hang up their weapons at all. They shouldn't give up just because they get beaten by someone. They get up and try again.

It would be a horrible lesson for kids to learn. "Hey, kids, if you don't accomplish something, just hang it up and don't try again." Whereas this show is saying that if you go down, you get up and try again even if things don't work out. Try a different angle. That's what I like about this show.

[Ryanator008]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Is it just me, or does this Splinter flipflop a lot between an idealist and a devious realist who wants to get the job done? It seems like they can't decide whether they want him to be the voice of reason or just a repository of snarky jokes.

Well do you act the exact same all the time?

[bridgegrn]

I think the fact is their villains are hard to kill. It's definitely not from lack of trying, when push comes to shove they constantly bring the fight. But considering that while highly skilled they are still learning and that the fights usually breaks out in chaos with things blowing up and people needing to be saved there really is only so much they can do.

[Jephael]

What we all need to keep in mind is no matter how good a plotline or storyarc these cartoon shows have, at the end of the day they're just a bunch of toy commercials.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Jephael

What we all need to keep in mind is no matter how good a plotline or storyarc these cartoon shows have, at the end of the day they're just a bunch of toy commercials.

High quality toy commercials.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Is it just me, or does this Splinter flipflop a lot between an idealist and a devious realist who wants to get the job done? It seems like they can't decide whether they want him to be the voice of reason or just a repository of snarky jokes.

Depends on the writer, I'm sure.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Which isn't to say that their inability to stop their antagonists in more permanent fashions isn't sometimes annoying, and/or contrived. Sure, there's bound to be some baddies whom they can do little about. Even so, the turtles don't seem at all interested in doing anything that isn't stopping the bad guy du jour from punching them. Why not capture Kraang and attempt to obtain intelligence from them? Why not attempt to expose them to the world? Why not take Snakeweed's heart and attempt to do something more permanent with it--they've known the guy can reassemble.

I don't think they know about Snakeweed's heart yet. I'm sure if the show wants to get rid of him permanently, they will.

And capturing the Kraang and interrogating him? Maybe that would work in MIB/Ben 10 cartoons, but again, do the Turtles have mutant/alien cells in the Lair they can toss them into?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It might not be too unreasonable for the Nick Turtles -- somewhat in that vein -- to make a bunch of holding cells for evildoing mutants somewhere deep in the sewers.

I actually find that incredibly unreasonable. Like, 4Kids levels of straight-played ridiculousness. The Turtles don't have the resources or motivation to run a mutant jail system.

Honestly, I like the fact that the mutant du jour usually ends up getting away. We're building a rogues gallery and it adds to the Turtles not being real heroes/light gallows humor aspects.

If we get two seasons in and just keep seeing the same "old mutant shows up, old mutant runs away" formula on loop, then I think this might become a valid question. But it doesn't look like that will be the case at all.

[Vivi]

At the risk of being lambasted, I have to agree. The turtles haven't maintained the status-quo as the situation would almost be identical with or without their involvement - maybe with the exception of April being kidnapped, ie. without the turtles the foot would still be running around on rooftops, Shredder would still be sitting on his throne, and the kraang would still be mixing mutagen for whatever mysterious reasons to be revealed.

If anything, I think the episodes are formulaic in their monsters, but I like to think a learning experience for the turtles who had never even been to the surface before the first episode. But compared (dare I!) to a well paced show such as the Last Airbender, the reveals and progress are moving glacially slow.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by Vivi

At the risk of being lambasted, I have to agree. The turtles haven't maintained the status-quo as the situation would almost be identical with or without their involvement - maybe with the exception of April being kidnapped, ie. without the turtles the foot would still be running around on rooftops, Shredder would still be sitting on his throne, and the kraang would still be mixing mutagen for whatever mysterious reasons to be revealed.

??

the foot would be running around on rooftops...because they'd run the city.

shredder would be sitting on a throne, having accomplished his goals, as opposed to sitting there trying to figure out how to get around the tmnt.

the kraang would've also accomplished it's goal...to who knows what end.

the turtles are actually EXACTLY maintaining the status-quo.

[Vivi]

^The turtles have not stopped the foot from 'running the city' (excuse the pun!). Shredder's goal is not to destroy the turtles, I'm sure he's slightly more complex than that. The kraang's plans have yet to be exposed but they are, as ever, still working on them. So...yeah.

[Jester]

Didn't Shredder come to New York because he found out Yoshi was there?

Pretty sure his goal in NYC is to destroy Splinter and the Turtles.

[Vivi]

^As a personal vendetta, yes. But the foot itself and his plans for conquest seem on a more international scale.