Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 16: Broken Foot

[Yoshimickster]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

All the more reason for Splinter the adult should have offer her help he was right that Karai was too emotional in her schemes so he should've told he to look at it from a pragmatic view this is on Splinter's head to and Shredder having pockets all over the place is more reason to dent his wallet

I think he didn't offer more constructive advice...because he knew she wouldn't listen. Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure he's in a "I've lost my baby girl" mind-set here.Granted that's just a theory.

As for wallet denting that's the thing, his network is SO big you won't be able to do more than just a few. It makes more sense to take out his soldiers.

[drgon78]

Good episode, as usual, can't wait for the next.

Loved the look April gave Karai at the end of the episode.

I wonder who the real boss fight of the season finale will be, Super Shredder or Dark April.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Xever also gets payed and Karai could have her ninjas attack Shredder's money making place in Japan

I doubt it because Karai is probably more focused on New York than anywhere else and anyway she did say at the end she's stopping destroying Shredder's things and going after Shredder himself.

If she was getting Shredder things destroyed in Japan, it will still make things worse.

Also where is she getting her money from, she's got to pay those Foot Ninja's she's hired.

Xever was forced to join Shredder after he tried to steal from him so even he does get payed, it won't be much.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

I think he didn't offer more constructive advice...because he knew she wouldn't listen. Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure he's in a "I've lost my baby girl" mind-set here.Granted that's just a theory.

As for wallet denting that's the thing, his network is SO big you won't be able to do more than just a few. It makes more sense to take out his soldiers.

He could've at least tried and also they could and did both and keep in mind the Chemical plant couldve been used to create more mutagen.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I doubt it because Karai is probably more focused on New York than anywhere else and anyway she did say at the end she's stopping destroying Shredder's things and going after Shredder himself.

If she was getting Shredder things destroyed in Japan, it will still make things worse.

Also where is she getting her money from, she's got to pay those Foot Ninja's she's hired.

Xever was forced to join Shredder after he tried to steal from him so even he does get payed, it won't be much.

1. Thats after Splinter chewed Karai out after choosing the smart direction

2. How would it make thing worse

3. Shredder must have cash somewhere as we seen in this episode.

4.Whats Shredder gonna do to Xever now the man is pretty much bedridden

Know that I think about should't Donnie offer turn some of Shredder's men back to human I mean I think they prefer human Xever over fishface

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

That's the thing though it WASN'T a good idea, and she re-FUSED help from him. She be stubborn.

On the topic of her plan she probably should've just gone STRAIGHT to the robots, THAN the other two rather than the money laundering operation and chemical factory that gave off her scent. Her attack lacked subtlety, "Go to place, blow it up, REPEAT!" The robot factory halts his army, the laundering and the chemicals were just dents in Shred-head's wallet.

Exactly.

Splinter did specifically say that he understood her reasons for going after the Shredder. But he wished she would seek their assistance. Karai however said she needed to do this her own way and Splinter responded that yes she needed to find her own path even if he personally didn't approve of the one she has chosen and they would be there when she is ready.

Karai had said herself that her whole life has been nothing but hatred and revenge in Vengeance is Mine. That is all she had been taught by the Shredder so in her mind that is the only way to get things done. However, when she asks Splinter why he didn't seek vengeance for her mother, Splinter solemnly answers that he has found Vengeance only leads to more sorrow and pain. Which is true, vengeance is a never ending cycle that only destroys and causes more vengeance.


Take Damona from Gargoyle's for example. She has a vendetta against all humanity and has declared herself as judge, jury, and executioner for all crimes against her race at the hands humans.

However in one arc of episodes "City of Stone" we learn more about what caused this desire for vengeance and the whole thing is started by her own hand.

She convinces the captain of the guards to allow the Vikings to sack the castle and take all the humans but leave the Gargoyles alone. Just before dawn she tries to warn her rookery brother and sister (Othello and Desdemona) of the impending attack but thinks better of it and hides.

Just before nightfall, the Vikings decide to destroy the Gargoyles so they wouldn't follow and attack. The Captain of the Guard tries to convince the leader of the Vikings that the Gargoyles will not attack but in the end, he could only helplessly watch while the majority of clan wyvern is smashed to bits.

Damona wakes up and finds her clan slaughters, she sees Goliath and Hudson return and runs fearing she would be suspected of the murder of her clan. However, when she returns she finds Goliath and the surviving members of her clan have all been placed in an eternal stone sleep. She starts to regret what she has done but then turns and sees the Magus and the Princess loading the eggs from the rookery into a cart and convinces herself that the humans were responsible.

And at the end of the arc the Wyrd Sisters ask her a bunch of questions that essentially translate to her being the author of her own sorrow.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

He could've at least tried and also they could and did both and keep in mind the Chemical plant couldve been used to create more mutagen.

The Chemical plant was used to make serum for the brain worms.

They can't make mutagen, the mutagen only comes from Dimension X slugs.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Exactly.

Splinter did specifically say that he understood her reasons for going after the Shredder. But he wished she would seek their assistance. Karai however said she needed to do this her own way and Splinter responded that yes she needed to find her own path even if he personally didn't approve of the one she has chosen and they would be there when she is ready.

Karai had said herself that her whole life has been nothing but hatred and revenge in Vengeance is Mine. That is all she had been taught by the Shredder so in her mind that is the only way to get things done. However, when she asks Splinter why he didn't seek vengeance for her mother, Splinter solemnly answers that he has found Vengeance only leads to more sorrow and pain. Which is true, vengeance is a never ending cycle that only destroys and causes more vengeance..

So instead of offering her help Splinter is just gonna let his daughter be killed, FATHER OF THE YEAR ladies and gentlemen.

Originally Posted by Vicky82

The Chemical plant was used to make serum for the brain worms.

They can't make mutagen, the mutagen only comes from Dimension X slugs.

So you don't think destroying Shredders factory for brain worms is a good idea

[The Happy One]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Yeah and it was Shredder who did all of that so it makes since to completely eradicate the sickness before it spreads AGAIN, Splinter has a chance to permanently make sure his family is safe and as we seen in this episode them not doing anything is going to make the situation worse

You make a good point.

But think of it as a father. No matter what, Splinter will see the end result, every move and decision as something he influenced.

So, sure, Shredder stabbed his wife; sure, Shredder took his daughter and consistently tries to murder his sons. Sure, it was all Shredder. But all those things happen because of the same motive behind Karai's current actions, y'know?

It's all vengeance. And it all leads to death in Splinter’s eyes.

And maybe that's why he won't act right now. Because maybe Splinter just doesn't know how to end Shredder without someone else- whether his sons, his daughter or the innocent- dead. That's, after all, all vengeance gets him. Death and hurt.

Because what did burning money and explosives do anyway? It's only going to slow down the inevitable. A final battle, obviously, has to happen.

Everyone- Splinter, his sons, Karai, April, Shredder- they all know that's what this'll come to.

Splinter can't just walk into Shredder's new little hideout home and kill him. Even if he did, what about the rest of the Foot?? This all has to be strategically planned out. And jumping all over the place and running into warehouses to strike out of blind rage and vengeance only winds up with someone hurt. Like Don.

I mean he's fine but...still, y’know..

Besides that, Splinter wants his kids to fight with, and out of, honor. Not rage, not vengeance.

And I don't think even he has mastered that- the ability to separate emotions from honor, from the right thing. Because every single time he attacks or strikes it's never truly separated from those emotions, and something bad happens.

And if you're still not convinced, bud, look at the last time they let vengeance get in the way- involving Karai at least. She got mutated.

So....I'm plenty sure Splinter has his reasons for laying low for now...

[neatoman]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Karai is to blame for the human ninjas going away in the first place, and now she is responsible for not only bringing them back but also making the stupid robots go away as well?

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by The Happy One

You make a good point.

But think of it as a father. No matter what, Splinter will see the end result, every move and decision as something he influenced.

So, sure, Shredder stabbed his wife; sure, Shredder took his daughter and consistently tries to murder his sons. Sure, it was all Shredder. But all those things happen because of the same motive behind Karai's current actions, y'know?

It's all vengeance. And it all leads to death in Splinter’s eyes.

And maybe that's why he won't act right now. Because maybe Splinter just doesn't know how to end Shredder without someone else- whether his sons, his daughter or the innocent- dead. That's, after all, all vengeance gets him. Death and hurt.

Because what did burning money and explosives do anyway? It's only going to slow down the inevitable. A final battle, obviously, has to happen.

Everyone- Splinter, his sons, Karai, April, Shredder- they all know that's what this'll come to.

Splinter can't just walk into Shredder's new little hideout home and kill him. Even if he did, what about the rest of the Foot?? This all has to be strategically planned out. And jumping all over the place and running into warehouses to strike out of blind rage and vengeance only winds up with someone hurt. Like Don.

I mean he's fine but...still, y’know..

Besides that, Splinter wants his kids to fight with, and out of, honor. Not rage, not vengeance.

And I don't think even he has mastered that- the ability to separate emotions from honor, from the right thing. Because every single time he attacks or strikes it's never truly separated from those emotions, and something bad happens.

And if you're still not convinced, bud, look at the last time they let vengeance get in the way- involving Karai at least. She got mutated.

So....I'm plenty sure Splinter has his reasons for laying low for now...

Shredder is an insane man who is willing to ally himself with an alien species who's main goal is the extinction of the human race that kind of man should not be allowed to live and again everything bad happened to Splinter or the people he cares about is because of Shredder the reason I'm pissed at this episode is because there is no nuance to it, its basically "you should't attack evil because of revenge" worst part about it is that Splinter was okay with the Turtles attacking Shredder's lair numerous of times. Leo, Karai and Splinter were in the wrong but the episode forgot to tell Splinter that also this is the same Splinter who back in season one said "Seek victory not fairness" what happened to that Splinter

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

So instead of offering her help Splinter is just gonna let his daughter be killed, FATHER OF THE YEAR ladies and gentlemen.

What's he supposed to do, tie her up in the lair for the rest of her life.

He can't exactly follow her or people will see him.

Karai's possible over 18 years old so she's old enough to do her own things and if she is under 18 they can't exactly contact social services about her, she is part snake.

Shredder raised her to be vengeful so she won't able to be stopped.

Splinter is not going to let Karia get killed, why don't you wait to watch the upcoming episodes and see what happens and anyway it looks like she's in the next episode.

[The Happy One]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Shredder is an insane man who is willing to ally himself with an alien species who's main goal is the extinction of the human race that kind of man should not be allowed to live and again everything bad happened to Splinter or the people he cares about is because of Shredder the reason I'm pissed at this episode is because there is no nuance to it, its basically "you should't attack evil because of revenge" worst part about it is that Splinter was okay with the Turtles attacking Shredder's lair numerous of times. Leo, Karai and Splinter were in the wrong but the episode forgot to tell Splinter that also this is the same Splinter who back in season one said "Seek victory not fairness" what happened to that Splinter

Life, my boy. Life. Splinter is aware of the danger, man. But things are different now, and a lot more complex than season one.

But I'll let you go...I get where you're coming from but I think there's a bigger picture here than just 'he's the enemy; go finish him'. There's bigger factors now than what once was.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

What's he supposed to do, tie her up in the lair for the rest of her life.

He can't exactly follow her or people will see him.

Karai's possible over 18 years old so she's old enough to do her own things and if she is under 18 they can't exactly contact social services about her, she is part snake.

Shredder raised her to be vengeful so she won't able to be stopped.

Splinter is not going to let Karia get killed, why don't you wait to watch the upcoming episodes and see what happens and anyway it looks like she's in the next episode.

1. For the hundreth thousanth time, OFFER HER HELP

2.NINJA

3.Okay

4. So act like a father and help her or give her some advice

5.So he's just gonna let her be in danger instead of again helping her.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by The Happy One

Life, my boy. Life. Splinter is aware of the danger, man. But things are different now, and a lot more complex than season one.

But I'll let you go...I get where you're coming from but I think there's a bigger picture here than just 'he's the enemy; go finish him'. There's bigger factors now than what once was.

What factors if Splinter doesn't do anything Shredder attacks him with an army of Chrome Dome look I get where Splinter is coming from but the episode should have at least made it clear that Splinter should attack Shredder my main problem with the episode is that its so one sided

[The Happy One]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

What factors if Splinter doesn't do anything Shredder attacks him with an army of Chrome Dome look I get where Splinter is coming from but the episode should have at least made it clear that Splinter should attack Shredder my main problem with the episode is that its so one sided

Oh okay...I get that...

It looks like Splinter just doesn't care right now about his kids' efforts to stop Shredder- or that he himself doesn't even possess the desire.

But I'm sure in the episodes leading up the finale will bring some light on this

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

1. For the hundreth thousanth time, OFFER HER HELP

Leo did that and look what happened to Donnie.

4. So act like a father and help her or give her some advice

He has but she's so determined to get rid of Shredder because Shredder is an arsehole and lied and controlled her whole life.

5.So he's just gonna let her be in danger instead of again helping her.

Again wait for upcoming episodes and see what happens, with Super Shredder coming they obviously will be helping her.

Also she's not going to die, she's in season 5.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Leo did that and look what happened to Donnie.



He has but she's so determined to get rid of Shredder because Shredder is an arsehole and lied and controlled her whole life.



Again wait for upcoming episodes and see what happens, with Super Shredder coming they obviously will be helping her.

Also she's not going to die, she's in season 5.

1.Leo also didn't tell Donnie what he was doing so again all the more reason to help her and take down Shredder more efficiently.

2.Well she's right, Shredder needs to be brought down

3. And they can't help her now this is the perfect time to cripple Shredder's empire

[matteso586]

I did not know that Chompy can breath fire. Then I remembered one of Tokka's powers.

A bit disappointed that this episode doesn't have a flashback of Karai's childhood.

This probably wasn't the first time Karai had to use shapeshifting to heal her own injuries.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

1.Leo also didn't tell Donnie what he was doing so again all the more reason to help her and take down Shredder more efficiently.

Even if they all helped her with her vengeance someone else will probably get badly injured.

3. And they can't help her now this is the perfect time to cripple Shredder's empire

Well they can't help her now, the next episode is next Sunday and that episode could happen a day after this episode.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Even if they all helped her with her vengeance someone else will probably get badly injured.



Well they can't help her now, the next episode is next Sunday and that episode could happen a day after this episode.

1. They're gonna get badly injured regardless what they do with the Shredder the point of the matter is how badly injured they will be and spoiler warning if Karai had not attacked the Bot factory these guys would've had to fight an army of Chrome Dome.

2 .Thats my point during the episode Splinter should've offered her help