One thing that Bothers me in the upcoming TMNT show - Page 4

Newton Gimmick · 11-25-2002, 07:06 PM

Luke: I'm looking for someone.

Yoda: Someone you have found, yes? Hmm.

Hehe. Man my spelling was terrible earlier, guess I was in a hurry.

As for Batman never killing, Batman has killed, but Bats much like the TNMT, doesn't go out of his way to kill.

My point was, TNMT needs a constant bad guy.

The new Foot sign is kinda lame, I always liked the big FOOT as the sign.

Aztec General · 11-25-2002, 07:24 PM

For the record I've figured out what the new Foot sign is. It's Shredder's three pronged helmet design. Ain't I smart?

Shellfox · 11-25-2002, 07:25 PM

1. I like Gargoyals, last good thing Disney has done in quite a while for TV
2. Exo Squade was killer, loved the mutant neosapians
3. When has Batman killed, him never killing is the point of the chacter
4. Don't know where this is coming from but the foot symbol looks like the Green Ranger power coin, again no idea where this came from
5. We need to see the guys imploy some interigation techniques
6. This is a kids show and we need some degree of comidy

~~Tokka-B~~ · 11-25-2002, 07:28 PM

Guys, quit evaluating a show that is far from coming to tv, sheesh.

I mean, there is too much emphasis on looks nowadays mostly. (Though I will regret that I said this sooner or later

) And DarthRaphael, I really don't think the new toon should be based on comedy or there would be no show. I think it should include comedy AS WELL AS violence because too many shows nowadays already have so many restrictions and it would pretty much die like the rest. Kids nowadays need a VARIETY of different cartoon shows, not just all comedy or happy endings, if kids are brought up to be taught that all endings are happy then their future is in for some big surprises..... I don't think the show should include sex, as most cartoons don't see that as a "need"

**Kali** · 11-25-2002, 07:39 PM

Remember violence and action are NOT the same! I hope they have an equal balance of comedy and action. Comedy and humor is just as much a part of TMNT as action and drama is.

~~Tokka-B~~ · 11-25-2002, 07:46 PM

I agree, the show definately needs action and comedy. But you'd think there may be slightly more violence since everyone seems to look beefed up and there are new charcters in the mix, but we will see.

Oh heck, if this new series is anything like the old one, I will be impressed!

*Jephael* · 11-25-2002, 07:47 PM

Hey, comedy has always been an essencial part in the TMNT universes. Infact, they were very humourous in Mirage Vol. 1 #5 when they ended up in the alien planet where they met Fugitoid.

~~Tokka-B~~ · 11-25-2002, 08:11 PM

Hey, does anyone know if the background music for the battle scenes and whatnot is the same?

*Jephael* · 11-25-2002, 08:14 PM

Nope, that stuff is probably getting a revamp as well.

**DarthRaphael** · 11-25-2002, 08:18 PM

Yes, I agree with everyone who said there should be a balance of action and comedy.

I was just sensing an over-abundance of the need for violence and killing.
There can be plenty of action, but rarely (or never) any death in a TV show.
I don't know about the rest of you, but it really irks me when a main character is killed off from a show. That maybe why the foot soldiers worked out well as robots. The TMNT had something to smash and destroy, but they weren't KILLING.

**Karpo_007** · 11-26-2002, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznorite420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Now that I have been thinking of it, the no Death thing could really be bad for the TMNT. Take the new He-man Show for example. The Masters have a war With Skeletor and his troops, but the war can never really end because there is no death in the cartoon. So if the plot can't move on, only reason to make new episodes is to sell toys.

Those sort of comments from you are really getting on my nerves. Think about it; would parents want to see kids seeing death and destruction of that sort on a TV show? I didn't think so. Remember, it's the kids that are the main audience.

I can see you didn't get my point. The plot not moving is not only problem with the TMNT, it is with almost any cartoon. Like HE-man. The war can never end. I know that if there were death, parents would start jumping of buildings. Im just asking can the Show avoid becoming boring and showing same plot all the time like the old toon? I mean if there's no Death, how can the battle between Shredder and TMNT end? I said earlier that prison is an option. I hope they can avoid the mistakes that most cartoons have made. Same good guys battling same enemies, the battle will stop only when the show gets cancelled. I know that if the writers are good enough, they can make it work.

Shellfox · 11-26-2002, 08:55 AM

bad exmaple but what about Jackie chan adventures? Same villians every season (to a degree) but the seasons all move forward till the end of the season. Its not that hard to have a series progress, plot wise, with killing people. Just have a good series plot, like they seem to have, so I don't see why we need to worry

Ozirron · 11-26-2002, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

The plot not moving is not only problem with the TMNT, it is with almost any cartoon. Like HE-man. The war can never end. I know that if there were death, parents would start jumping of buildings. Im just asking can the Show avoid becoming boring and showing same plot all the time like the old toon? I mean if there's no Death, how can the battle between Shredder and TMNT end? I said earlier that prison is an option.

-----
If you are speaking about 'a death' and about possible end of war between Shredder and turtles I have to say that here is a problems with long shows. Nobody knew when the show ends up.
And if writers let die/be killed one of main characters (not depend on if the character is good guy or bad guy) there will be alwyas a group of people who liked that character and the show will be interesting for them no more. (or they won't like the show as much as they did)

my opinion:
I don't like stories, which are strictly Black & White, where good guys are perfect heroes and bad guys are 'absolutely evil' monsters.
So when the show/story is not about 'war between Turtles and Shredder' but about their lives, including the aspect they are enemies and this war is not only sence or their lives, so. in that way, any death is needed and story plot could be still very interesting.I would like to see, turtles are heroes, but living creatures so they could make mistakes. And opposite side, here is Shredder, who is human, living creature, too, so he couldn't be only evil monster, living for 'a Hate' only or so. So in the show,any 'human/good features' of Shredder's nature/acting could be shown there.

**Karpo_007** · 11-26-2002, 09:29 AM

Original TMNT were not the ultimate good guys. They first battled Shredder to avenge Splinter's Master Yoshi. But this time it seem that Shredder will be a long time enemy. I just hope it doesn't turn out like the old show.

*heretic888* · 11-26-2002, 09:43 AM

one of the big themes in the tmnt series is about the circle of violence and pointlessness of vengeance.

**HorseTechie** · 11-26-2002, 01:03 PM

Yeah... I saw that too in the mirage comics. Once it starts it doesn't seem to end...

*takes a big breath* But I agree with those who are pro-action/comedy and anti-death/violence in cartoons. Sure.. some things go too far, like censoring nunchuks and martial arts action all togther. But I doubt they are gonna go THAT far in this toon. People are more worried about guns and terrorists now.

All I can say.. if you wanna see violence, death, and destruction, go watch the 9/11 footage of the WTC falling. Or the sneaky snipers. Then... you'll see why some do not wish to have violence with lots of obvious death in the cartoons and other places they go to escape. I'm not saying too much reality, war n politics are a bad thing... but not having that balance of work and play makes one rather gray.

But yes.. I do like stories were you wonder who is the right one and who is the wrong. I think the first two seasons of the Transformers, and the comics handled that very well. We only percieved the Decepticons as the bad ones cause they didn't care too much about humans like the Autobot factions did. Or with the Gargoyles. To a human, Xanatos might be a good guy.. cause those Gargoyle monsters look big and scary and stuff. I like it when they play that game of tug of war... trying to compromise, trying to make one side join the other, trying to outfox one another's plan. Strategy... like a chess game. But grabbing up a gun or a sword and killing them all in 3 point 2 seconds as if it were some video game just totally ruins the sport.

*heretic888* · 11-26-2002, 02:37 PM

Well, I think there SHOULD be some death in the new series. But not gratuitous death.

A true shinobi would only kill as an absolute last resort. More than likely, he would down the attacker and distract him and then try and escape. Same with the turtles. They have no desire to just randomly beat up on criminals. If they are being attacked, they would fight only as much as they needed until they could get away. If they had a mission or objective to attain, they would go after it in the most covert and unnoticeable means as possible. Well, except for the sometimes-moronic Raphael, but that's another story.....

In other words, for ninja as skilled and trained as the TMNT, death should be an extreme rarity. Ninja prefer to avoid violence altogether. Thus, the emphasis on stealth and invisibility.

Neither war nor politics are inherently bad. Actually, NO ACTION is bad in itself. Only motivations and intentions are good or bad. ANY action will have both good and bad consequences to different people. Thus, intention is the basis of any real morality. Are your intentions truly selfless and compassionate, or greedy and self-absorbed??? Morality is only found in the motivation.

Gargoyles was a very good show.

I too most enjoy the shows when there is not a hard line between right and wrong, good and evil. They could definitely throw in some interesting discussion in the new TMNT show, such as where they right to begin warring with the Foot?? How do we make the circle of violence and vengeance end?? and stuff like that.....

oh well, we'll see....

**Karpo_007** · 11-26-2002, 02:42 PM

It doesn't need to be something like spawn, But if there is no death it can't be that straight adaption of Mirage comics.

*heretic888* · 11-26-2002, 02:48 PM

yes, i agree. there needs to be at least a LITTLE death. it could be off-screen, implied, or whatever but it sorta needs to be there. not any of this mindless gratuitous violence or whatnot, only death when it is appropriate and contributes to the plot.

**Karpo_007** · 11-26-2002, 02:54 PM

Yeah. But as it is a Saturday morning cartoon, it can't be graphical.

11-25-2002, 07:24 PM	#62
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	For the record I've figured out what the new Foot sign is. It's Shredder's three pronged helmet design. Ain't I smart? __________________

11-25-2002, 07:47 PM	#67
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,142	Hey, comedy has always been an essencial part in the TMNT universes. Infact, they were very humourous in Mirage Vol. 1 #5 when they ended up in the alien planet where they met Fugitoid. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-25-2002, 08:14 PM	#69
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,142	Nope, that stuff is probably getting a revamp as well. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-25-2002, 08:18 PM	#70
DarthRaphael Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC USA Posts: 913	Yes, I agree with everyone who said there should be a balance of action and comedy. I was just sensing an over-abundance of the need for violence and killing. There can be plenty of action, but rarely (or never) any death in a TV show. I don't know about the rest of you, but it really irks me when a main character is killed off from a show. That maybe why the foot soldiers worked out well as robots. The TMNT had something to smash and destroy, but they weren't KILLING. __________________ I edit your posts

11-26-2002, 09:43 AM	#75
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	yuh one of the big themes in the tmnt series is about the circle of violence and pointlessness of vengeance. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-25-2002, 07:06 PM	#61
Newton Gimmick Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,154	Luke: I'm looking for someone. Yoda: Someone you have found, yes? Hmm. Hehe. Man my spelling was terrible earlier, guess I was in a hurry. As for Batman never killing, Batman has killed, but Bats much like the TNMT, doesn't go out of his way to kill. My point was, TNMT needs a constant bad guy. The new Foot sign is kinda lame, I always liked the big FOOT as the sign.

11-25-2002, 07:25 PM	#63
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	1. I like Gargoyals, last good thing Disney has done in quite a while for TV 2. Exo Squade was killer, loved the mutant neosapians 3. When has Batman killed, him never killing is the point of the chacter 4. Don't know where this is coming from but the foot symbol looks like the Green Ranger power coin, again no idea where this came from 5. We need to see the guys imploy some interigation techniques 6. This is a kids show and we need some degree of comidy

11-25-2002, 07:28 PM	#64
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Guys, quit evaluating a show that is far from coming to tv, sheesh. I mean, there is too much emphasis on looks nowadays mostly. (Though I will regret that I said this sooner or later ) And DarthRaphael, I really don't think the new toon should be based on comedy or there would be no show. I think it should include comedy AS WELL AS violence because too many shows nowadays already have so many restrictions and it would pretty much die like the rest. Kids nowadays need a VARIETY of different cartoon shows, not just all comedy or happy endings, if kids are brought up to be taught that all endings are happy then their future is in for some big surprises..... I don't think the show should include sex, as most cartoons don't see that as a "need"

11-25-2002, 07:39 PM	#65
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Remember violence and action are NOT the same! I hope they have an equal balance of comedy and action. Comedy and humor is just as much a part of TMNT as action and drama is.

11-25-2002, 07:46 PM	#66
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	I agree, the show definately needs action and comedy. But you'd think there may be slightly more violence since everyone seems to look beefed up and there are new charcters in the mix, but we will see. Oh heck, if this new series is anything like the old one, I will be impressed!

11-25-2002, 08:11 PM	#68
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Hey, does anyone know if the background music for the battle scenes and whatnot is the same?

11-26-2002, 08:55 AM	#72
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	bad exmaple but what about Jackie chan adventures? Same villians every season (to a degree) but the seasons all move forward till the end of the season. Its not that hard to have a series progress, plot wise, with killing people. Just have a good series plot, like they seem to have, so I don't see why we need to worry

11-26-2002, 09:29 AM	#74
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Original TMNT were not the ultimate good guys. They first battled Shredder to avenge Splinter's Master Yoshi. But this time it seem that Shredder will be a long time enemy. I just hope it doesn't turn out like the old show.

11-26-2002, 01:03 PM	#76
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah... I saw that too in the mirage comics. Once it starts it doesn't seem to end... takes a big breath But I agree with those who are pro-action/comedy and anti-death/violence in cartoons. Sure.. some things go too far, like censoring nunchuks and martial arts action all togther. But I doubt they are gonna go THAT far in this toon. People are more worried about guns and terrorists now. All I can say.. if you wanna see violence, death, and destruction, go watch the 9/11 footage of the WTC falling. Or the sneaky snipers. Then... you'll see why some do not wish to have violence with lots of obvious death in the cartoons and other places they go to escape. I'm not saying too much reality, war n politics are a bad thing... but not having that balance of work and play makes one rather gray. But yes.. I do like stories were you wonder who is the right one and who is the wrong. I think the first two seasons of the Transformers, and the comics handled that very well. We only percieved the Decepticons as the bad ones cause they didn't care too much about humans like the Autobot factions did. Or with the Gargoyles. To a human, Xanatos might be a good guy.. cause those Gargoyle monsters look big and scary and stuff. I like it when they play that game of tug of war... trying to compromise, trying to make one side join the other, trying to outfox one another's plan. Strategy... like a chess game. But grabbing up a gun or a sword and killing them all in 3 point 2 seconds as if it were some video game just totally ruins the sport.

11-26-2002, 02:37 PM	#77
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmmm Well, I think there SHOULD be some death in the new series. But not gratuitous death. A true shinobi would only kill as an absolute last resort. More than likely, he would down the attacker and distract him and then try and escape. Same with the turtles. They have no desire to just randomly beat up on criminals. If they are being attacked, they would fight only as much as they needed until they could get away. If they had a mission or objective to attain, they would go after it in the most covert and unnoticeable means as possible. Well, except for the sometimes-moronic Raphael, but that's another story..... In other words, for ninja as skilled and trained as the TMNT, death should be an extreme rarity. Ninja prefer to avoid violence altogether. Thus, the emphasis on stealth and invisibility. Neither war nor politics are inherently bad. Actually, NO ACTION is bad in itself. Only motivations and intentions are good or bad. ANY action will have both good and bad consequences to different people. Thus, intention is the basis of any real morality. Are your intentions truly selfless and compassionate, or greedy and self-absorbed??? Morality is only found in the motivation. Gargoyles was a very good show. I too most enjoy the shows when there is not a hard line between right and wrong, good and evil. They could definitely throw in some interesting discussion in the new TMNT show, such as where they right to begin warring with the Foot?? How do we make the circle of violence and vengeance end?? and stuff like that..... oh well, we'll see.... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-26-2002, 02:42 PM	#78
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	It doesn't need to be something like spawn, But if there is no death it can't be that straight adaption of Mirage comics.

11-26-2002, 02:48 PM	#79
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm yes, i agree. there needs to be at least a LITTLE death. it could be off-screen, implied, or whatever but it sorta needs to be there. not any of this mindless gratuitous violence or whatnot, only death when it is appropriate and contributes to the plot. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-26-2002, 02:54 PM	#80
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yeah. But as it is a Saturday morning cartoon, it can't be graphical.