Pattinson/Reeves Batman Movie (Formerly Affleck Stand-Alone Film)

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Sumac

You don't need to be jaded to like Burton movies more than Schumacher's.

What I'm saying is that there's enough in those movies to like them but it's just cool to hate on them as if they had no redeeming features. You can read more of my opinion on them here. None of those 4 movies are excellent yet Burton gets so much praise. I understand he brought the "dark" back to batman and made him legit to mainstream audiences but besides that impact the movies really aren't great batman films, just great burton films.

[AquaParade]

Actually, I believe that report is true.

Matt Reeves has clearly wanted as much creative freedom as he can get with this project. It was even heavily publicized that initial meetings with WB became quite heated. He doesn't want anything holding his vision back, and that clearly includes Ben Affleck and Ben Affleck's ties to the Justice League and BvS films.

You guys are right about one thing: Matt Reeves is occasionally full of ****. It comes with the job. Initially, he played along, pretending it would all be tied together, but it was obvious he wants to do his own thing. At the time, WB were still promoting the Justice League - centered DC Cinematic Universe, which is why he had to play along.

In fact, it's likely that Matt Reeves was taking his sweet ass time with the script as a way of waiting out
A. Ben Affleck
B. the internal changes going on inside WB studios. (Kevin Tsujihara taking his exit)
C. The stink of Justice League and BvS - Batman to fade away.

What makes anybody think Matt Reeves wanted Ben Affleck in his film? That's what's confusing to me.
Think about it: Don't you think Matt Reeves would look at the abysmal reception to those films and try to distance himself as much as possible, before basing the potential future of his career, next ten years, and a movie trilogy off of it?

It's obvious.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Actually, I believe that report is true.

Matt Reeves has clearly wanted as much creative freedom as he can get with this project. It was even heavily publicized that initial meetings with WB became quite heated. He doesn't want anything holding his vision back, and that clearly includes Ben Affleck and Ben Affleck's ties to the Justice League and BvS films.

I mean, how clear has it been that Matt Reeves has wanted his film to stand-alone from the start. Initially, he played along pretending it would all be tied together, but it was obvious he wants to do his own thing. At the time, WB were still promoting the Justice League - centered DC Cinematic Universe, which is why he had to play along.

In fact, it's likely that Matt Reeves was taking his sweet ass time with the script as a way of waiting out
A. Ben Affleck
B. the internal changes going on inside WB studios. (Kevin Tsujihara taking his exit)
C. The stink of Justice League and BvS - Batman to fade away.

What makes anybody think Matt Reeves wanted Ben Affleck in his film? That's what's confusing to me.
Think about it: Don't you think Matt Reeves would look at the abysmal reception to those films and try to distance himself as much as possible, before basing the potential future of his career, next ten years, and a movie trilogy off of it?

It's obvious.

Huh. I like the points you make. I could buy that.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Huh. I like the points you make. I could buy that.

Thanks for reading. I spend a silly amount of my free time following these developments, so I feel pretty strongly about it, but I can see why there is a lot of confusion. For instance, it really does appear that Ben was interested in playing Batman for the Matt Reeve's films. There is just so much ******** PR-speak surrounding this project, that it can quite complex to parcel through what really adds up and what does not.

That said, I've been wrong before.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

What makes anybody think Matt Reeves wanted Ben Affleck in his film? That's what's confusing to me.
Think about it: Don't you think Matt Reeves would look at the abysmal reception to those films and try to distance himself as much as possible, before basing the potential future of his career, next ten years, and a movie trilogy off of it?

It's obvious.

You'd think Patty Jenkins would also have this mindset when doing Wonder Woman but I guess she didn't believe JL would be a flop.

I'm sure Robert Pattinson will do well. It's actually hilarious to see Batman fans get all worked up over this news though. They went through this cycle with Keaton, Bale, Ledger, Affleck, and now Pattinson. Batman has quite the fanbase, lol.

To be honest, I don't know what Reeves can do with Batman that anyone hasn't done before (comics, cartoons, previous films). I just can't help but feel that we're gonna get the same ol' stories we've seen in previous films. I'd rather have something that sticks out from what's done before.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

You'd think Patty Jenkins would also have this mindset when doing Wonder Woman but I guess she didn't believe JL would be a flop.

I'm sure Robert Pattinson will do well. It's actually hilarious to see Batman fans get all worked up over this news though. They went through this cycle with Keaton, Bale, Ledger, Affleck, and now Pattinson. Batman has quite the fanbase, lol.

To be honest, I don't know what Reeves can do with Batman that anyone hasn't done before (comics, cartoons, previous films). I just can't help but feel that we're gonna get the same ol' stories we've seen in previous films. I'd rather have something that sticks out from what's done before.

Right, but the fact that Wonder Woman came before JL sort of negates that. They already found success with Gal as Wonder Woman before JL rolled around.

I agree about the casting of Robert Pattinson. I think he's going to be fantastic. Batman casting discussion online has always been such a ****-show that I'm not even following the story so much.
Robert Pattinson confirmed as Batman? Sounds good. Discussion over, for me.

I'm curious as all hell which direction Matt Reeves is going to take Batman in. I like the noir angle he seems to be hinting at. He says he wants to make a film that is true to Batman's roots as a detective, while being emotionally driven, through Batman's perspective.
That all sounds great to me, but the proof will be in the pudding, right?

I'm excited for what's to come, because each on-screen Batman interpretation always manages to feel quite different from the previous. From the 60's show to the Burton films, Schumacher craziness leading to The Dark Knight. Zach Snyder's version was something akin to Dark Knight Returns, which we had never seen in film before. It will be really interesting to get a taste of Matt Reeves vision. Can't wait for a trailer.

[Andrew NDB]

No, the idea of "waiting out Affleck" doesn't make any sense. There wasn't like some contract with an expiration date guaranteeing him the Batman role in the interim, nor did he just up and "walk away" from the part at any point. The rug was yanked from under him. I mean, I get it. If I was WB, I don't know that I would bank 200 million on "let's very publicly get drunk and make my ex-wife I cheated on take me to Jack in the Box and rehab right after I stunk up the Justice League movie" Affleck either.

From the rewrites mandated by WB that Reeves kept turning in towards the end there and what was said by Reeves and Affleck at different points, it seems pretty clear WB just plain wasn't comfortable with Affleck in the role (particularly immediately after his "incident") and Reeves had to play ball.

But let's play Devil's advocate. Let's pretend Reeves didn't want Affleck from jump street. OK. Why wouldn't he simply not involve him from the beginning? The answer you're suggesting, I guess, is that WB is the one that wanted Affleck? Bullsh**. Plus remember, when Affleck was tapped to direct and write the movie, WB held his feet to the fire for a hard deadline and that's why he walked away as director... yet as soon as Reeves came aboard, suddenly Reeves is given carte blanche for a deadline from WB to do whatever he wants. You really think "... but you can't get rid of Affleck!" was a condition? B.S.. They rolled out the red carpet for Reeves.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, the idea of "waiting out Affleck" doesn't make any sense. There wasn't like some contract with an expiration date guaranteeing him the Batman role in the interim, nor did he just up and "walk away" from the part at any point. The rug was yanked from under him. I mean, I get it. If I was WB, I don't know that I would bank 200 million on "let's very publicly get drunk and make my ex-wife I cheated on take me to Jack in the Box and rehab right after I stunk up the Justice League movie" Affleck either.

From the rewrites mandated by WB that Reeves kept turning in towards the end there and what was said by Reeves and Affleck at different points, it seems pretty clear WB just plain wasn't comfortable with Affleck in the role (particularly immediately after his "incident") and Reeves had to play ball.

"Waiting out Ben Affleck" doesn't mean "waiting for his contract to expire", it means waiting for him and WB to go ahead and severe the contract. Wait for the public to accept that he likely isn't coming back. Waiting for Ben to end up in permanent rehab - who knows?
The point is, when Matt Reeves came on, Ben was still Batman in the public's eye, and even contractually, but everyone and their mother knew that it wasn't working out. He had to wait that out so he could move on with his own Batman.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But let's play Devil's advocate. Let's pretend Reeves didn't want Affleck from jump street. OK. Why wouldn't he simply not involve him from the beginning? The answer you're suggesting, I guess, is that WB is the one that wanted Affleck? Bullsh**. Plus remember, when Affleck was tapped to direct and write the movie, WB held his feet to the fire for a hard deadline and that's why he walked away as director... yet as soon as Reeves came aboard, suddenly Reeves is given carte blanche for a deadline from WB to do whatever he wants. You really think "... but you can't get rid of Affleck!" was a condition? B.S.. They rolled out the red carpet for Reeves.

No, your assumption that I believe WB were pushing Matt to keep Ben as Batman is incorrect.

You are also assuming Matt Reeves involved Ben Affleck, in the role of Batman, at all. He just smiled and nodded while WB figured out what the hell to do with Ben.

Did you forget that reports of Matt meeting with Jake Gyllenhall began a year ago? Way before Ben was announced to be done with Batman (and before some people believed it). Not to mention reports of Matt wanting to focus on a younger Batman who is early on in his career. This was very early on. Don't tell me Matt Reeves was envisioning Ben Affleck with de-aging technology.

No, Matt Reeves was never interested in Ben as Batman. For me, the final nail in the coffin of reason, remains that Matt Reeves would have to be crazy to want to pick up where the DC cinematic universe left off, with Batman. The man is sane, and when offered the gig of a lifetime, went after a fresh start. It's not hard to believe.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

No, Matt Reeves was never interested in Ben as Batman.

When Affleck walked away as director, he was still the actor and there was nothing forcing WB to cast him in any more Batman movies. Why would Reeves even become attached at that point? What would even be the conversation? WB: "Hey Reeves, we want you to direct The Batman, with Affleck!" Reeves: "Eh, I want to do it, but not with him." "Really? Well, it might change. But maybe not! But hey, how about you attach yourself to it now and spend 3 years writing a script for it that we'll have you rewrite a few times, anyway, just in case we get rid of him?" "Deal!"

Just sounds highly unlikely.

For me, the final nail in the coffin of reason, remains that Matt Reeves would have to be crazy to want to pick up where the DC cinematic universe left off, with Batman.

Pretty sure the general idea was to softboot it with Affleck. Like with Aquaman. Those events happened but... eh, we're not going to talk about them, possibly ever again.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

When Affleck walked away as director, he was still the actor. Why would Reeves even become attached at that point? What would even be the conversation? WB: "Hey Reeves, we want you to direct The Batman, with Affleck!" Reeves: "Eh, I don't want to do it with him." "Well it might change. But maybe not. How about you attach yourself to it now and spend 3 years writing a script for it, anyway, just in case we get rid of him?" "Deal!"

Just sounds highly unlikely.

Reeves became attached to direct a Batman film. One of the coolest jobs in the world.

You ask a good question, because it is sort of messy. Not clean cut. But I believe it was probably clear from Matt Reeves initial pitch that Ben wasn't the ideal Batman for his vision. Everyone could see there was turbulence, with Ben, behind the scenes, and Reeves could probably see where things were heading, after initial meetings with WB, better than even we could (and we, the audience, did get a good look at how bad things were getting).

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Pretty sure the general idea was to softboot it with Affleck. Like with Aquaman. Those events happened but... eh, we're not going to talk about them, possibly ever again.

I believe there were a lot of contingency plans flying around. And I bet Matt would have taken Ben if he had to.

We both have to go off so much conjecture, that we can only try to connect the pieces we have and make sense of them. There is room for interpretation.

For me, the broken record, it largely comes down to the belief that Matt Reeves would pitch a fresh start for his vision of Batman, rather than take on the baggage left behind, not just story-wise, but public perception-wise.

Even with a soft-reboot, I don't believe you can shake that off.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Reeves became attached to direct a Batman film. One of the coolest jobs in the world.

You ask a good question, because it is sort of messy. Not clean cut. But I believe it was probably clear from Matt Reeves initial pitch that Ben wasn't the ideal Batman for his vision. Everyone could see there was turbulence, with Ben, behind the scenes, and Reeves could probably see where things were heading, after initial meetings with WB, better than even we could (and we, the audience, did get a good look at how bad things were getting).

I'm just saying, there is no version of Reeves attaching himself to direct and write The Batman where there wasn't at least a pretty huge chance that Affleck would remain aboard. And Reeves would have been well aware of that. He even told us that. "That's the plan."

I believe there were a lot of contingency plans flying around. And I bet Matt would have taken Ben if he had to.

Yeah, that.

Even with a soft-reboot, I don't believe you can shake that off.

Eh, I don't know. Justice League wasn't like, radioactive and it didn't hurt Aquaman's box office one bit, even to my surprise (I'm sure it won't hurt Wonder Woman: Ragnarok's either, when it comes out in 2045). If anything, the real damage with Ben as Batman was back in BvS with all the murdery stuff... which could probably be quietly swept under the rug.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by sdp

What I'm saying is that there's enough in those movies to like them but it's just cool to hate on them as if they had no redeeming features. You can read more of my opinion on them here. None of those 4 movies are excellent yet Burton gets so much praise. I understand he brought the "dark" back to batman and made him legit to mainstream audiences but besides that impact the movies really aren't great batman films, just great burton films.

I agree that Batman Returns is not a batman movie, it doesn't make it bad.
But Batman'89 is a good Batman movie.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...-revealed/amp/.
Mad Hatter and Firefly to make film debut in The Batman. They will join Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin, and Two Face. Half of those don't belong in Arkham in my opinion.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...-revealed/amp/.
Mad Hatter and Firefly to make film debut in The Batman. They will join Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin, and Two Face. Half of those don't belong in Arkham in my opinion.

That's the first I've heard on Two-Face. Don't really care to see Two-Face again so soon (you can't beat Aaron Eckhart), but I'm excited for everybody else.

Well, I can't say I'm excited for Firefly. He's a nobody. But cool.

Nick Frost for Penguin; David Tennant for Riddler; Olivia Wilde for Catwoman; Bill Hader for Mad Hatter.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

That's the first I've heard on Two-Face. Don't really care to see Two-Face again so soon (you can't beat Aaron Eckhart), but I'm excited for everybody else.

Well, I can't say I'm excited for Firefly. He's a nobody. But cool.

Nick Frost for Penguin; David Tennant for Riddler; Olivia Wilde for Catwoman; Bill Hader for Mad Hatter.

I can't argue with your fancasting.

Two Face did not get much screentime in The Dark Knight. It was Harvey Dent that got the screentime. I also hope that this time Two Face will have or had a relationship with Glida.

Black Mask will be in a film without Batman and 13th overall. It is time Mad Hatter made the cut. Putting Firefly in is fine. I would like to see Hugo Strange, Clayface, and Hush all first, but hey Firefly will be a deputy villain.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Black Mask will be in a film without Batman and 13th overall. It is time Mad Hatter made the cut. Putting Firefly in is fine. I would like to see Hugo Strange, Clayface, and Hush all first, but hey Firefly will be a deputy villain.

I have zero faith in Birds of Prey and the Fabulous Harley Quinn Fangasm to give us a decent Black Mask.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I have zero faith in Birds of Prey and the Fabulous Harley Quinn Fangasm to give us a decent Black Mask.

Same here unfortunately.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Same here unfortunately.

Black Mask was Professor Pyg levels of nasty before Pyg was a thing. Remember what he did to Selina's sister and brother-in-law?

WELL DAMN.

[Autbot_Benz]

DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Mad Hatter and Two-Face will appear in Matt Reeves’ ‘THE BATMAN’. (EXCLUSIVE) https://bit.ly/2X5gI6R

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

DiscussingFilm
‏ @DiscussingFilm

Mad Hatter and Two-Face will appear in Matt Reeves’ ‘THE BATMAN’. (EXCLUSIVE) https://bit.ly/2X5gI6R

A little late, amigo, but yes...

Not entirely sure how I feel about Mad Hatter. I've never particularly cared for him, but I don't hate him either. He's just sorta "eh."