Leo & Donnie-Should they butt heads?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

If there's a foot in mouth moment for Leo, maybe I could see him saying something harsh regarding Timothy, putting Karai's welfare ahead of his. Maybe he could say something like he chose to be mutated, Karai didn't. I dunno...I just couldn't see him saying something harsh regarding Kirby.

That's possible. The reason felt Leo would say something that harsh regarding Kirby, is because he was the only person they've used the retromutagen on.

When Donnie had made only two vials of retromutagen one for Kirby and one for Splinter. The first vial was broken in a struggle against Baxter Stockman, and the second one successfully restored Kirby by way of mcguffin. And with the upcoming Kraang invasion Donnie's going to be focused on preparing for that and not so much Karai. So he's not going to be preparing retromutagen any time soon.

And saying something like that even as a foot in the mouth statement would get everyone telling Leo he is out of line.

Then again, Donnie in many incarnations has also been the most loyal of the Turtle's. Raph is loyal to the team, but his temper makes him irrational and that impulsiveness does make him harder to trust. And Mikey is erratic and childish much of the time.

Donnie is generally the most loyal towards Leo. He is usually the one asking Leo what they should do in serious situations such as when Slash and the Newtralizer are going after the Kraang. And there are times he questions Leo's plans but that is only done as a way of verifying them. Also there are moments when it feels like Donnie can read Leo better then Raph or Mikey can. Such as Parasitica Donnie seems to sense something is wrong with Leo but he isn't sure what. And in Showdown when Leo intends to destroy the Power Cell so the Kraang can't use it again. Donnie's reaction of "Whoa Leo, please tell me you aren't thinking what I think you're thinking?!" is along the lines of "Leo, please tell me it doesn't have to come this?"

Leo also seems to acknowledge Donnie's loyalty as well such as when they are playing "King of the Mountain". When Donnie joins him on the wire Leo smiles as if saying "I know this brother will obey me."

But the difference between this incarnation of Donnie and the other incarnations is that Leo has earned Donnie's loyalty in those incarnations for the most part. In this incarnation, Donnie's loyalty has been straining quite a bit in the latter parts of this series.

As Splinter did state in Follow the Leader "A "True Leader" doesn't impose his will on his followers, but helps them to flourish."

Perhaps the conflict wouldn't be a foot in mouth statement, but it could be something like Leo lashing out and punching or maybe slapping Donnie when he's trying to reason with him.

However it is possible the conflict could show how Donnie becomes leader of the team.

That too, but the fact that he didn't say anything speaks volumes to me. He chose to do so because it was the right thing to do, not because he seemed to agree fully with Leo's leadership authority, like Raph. To me, it's like he was questioning it....just internally. I just get the impression that he doesn't fully see him as leader.

In New Girl in Town, Raph was given the role of leader because he was going on and on about how would be better leader then Leo. And Leo in turn got fed up and said "Fine, you're leader."

Then when he tells Splinter what he did. Splinter essentially says "You can't give up leadership just because you don't like the role you were given."

On the flip-side however it is the right of any member of the team to challenge the leader for the leadership role. Normally the challenge to unseat the leader is if the leader is doing actions that his followers find questionable, or could potentially put the team at risk.

But this in itself is also a big risk because such a challenge can not be posed unless there is legit concrete evidence to back it up. If the challenger is wrong, then they are viewed as being usurpers and that will have it's own consequences.

[JTH]

Actually, now that I think about it.

Metalhead Rewired they pretty much butted heads the entire episode with each other.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by jth

Actually, now that I think about it.

Metalhead Rewired they pretty much butted heads the entire episode with each other.

Yeah, you're right. I have an excuse to rewatch that ep. lol

[The Vernon]

I concur that both Leo and Don should both butt heads. Here is my thinking: Don makes a mechanical bandanna with a built-in GPS system. Leonardo has a problem with that 'cus it leads him where he wants to go. Don knows that, and thus the battle starts. Leo fights don... to the death.

It's a work in progress novel. I only have that one paragraph, sue me.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by jth

Actually, now that I think about it.

Metalhead Rewired they pretty much butted heads the entire episode with each other.

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Yeah, you're right. I have an excuse to rewatch that ep. lol

I think that could be a start of something major between them.

[ssjup81]

Maybe, but Leo did apologize to Donnie for not trusting his judgment.

[victory_angel]

One thing Donnie and Leo have in common is that they have the teams safety at heart.

Leo was against Donnie in that situation because narrow view regarding Ninjitsu aside, he knew Metalhead was dangerous. And his argument when he's telling Donnie to shut off Metalhead for good was that the Kraang had taken control of Metalhead before and they didn't completely know for certain as to what damage metalhead had endured when he was plugged in that computer.

And when he is telling Donnie to shut down Metalhead for good, he does sound apologetic about it because he knows Donnie did strongly believe that Metalhead was on their side. But the robot was just too glitchy to be trusted.

And both of them are libel to turn against anyone they feel could cause potential harm to the family. Such as when Donnie takes Leo's side against Raph in Turtle Temper. Or when Leo angerly points out to Donnie that Metalhead nearly ripped off Mikey's face.

[billbot85]

As of right now, I don't see much of a reason for Leo and Donnie to butt heads, but I believe it's possible for it to head in that direction. Considering Donnie's the brains of the team, and creates all of their gadgets, he can have the potential to challenge Leo's decisions for the team more. It would be an interesting change of pace from the typical Raph and Leo rivalry.

In the OT, it seemed Leo and Don were more on the same wavelength and argued more over what action to take. Raph and Mikey bickered among themselves.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by billbot85

As of right now, I don't see much of a reason for Leo and Donnie to butt heads, but I believe it's possible for it to head in that direction. Considering Donnie's the brains of the team, and creates all of their gadgets, he can have the potential to challenge Leo's decisions for the team more. It would be an interesting change of pace from the typical Raph and Leo rivalry.

In the OT, it seemed Leo and Don were more on the same wavelength and argued more over what action to take. Raph and Mikey bickered among themselves.

We have seen Donnie trying to maintain a neutral view on the situation with Karai, but there are hints that suggest that he can no longer abide by the neutral view.

Also Leo has brushed Donnie off as one of the weaker fighters of the group. As we have seen him take down easily during group fights, resulting in someone having to protect him such as Raph.

And yet when Donnie is by himself he does fight rather well such as taking out both Fishface and DogPound on his own. And he had Karai over powered until ChromeDome showed up.

Ciro has said they would have an episode hinting at the Leo one shot, but he never specifically said it was Leo who will get the stuffing beaten out of him. There are hints pointing to it being Leo, particularly since Donnie assumes the leadership role during the northampton arc.

However this situation has changed up as well such as Raph being the one who was beaten to a pulp in the 1990's movie.


As you have pointed out Leo and Don tend to be on the same wave length in the OT. But there were moments where Donatello would tells stories that embellish him as a better fighter then he actually is. And then there are moments like "Night of the Dark Turtle" where Donnie is being teased about favoring technical skill over the traditional tactics. And that results in Donnie feeling that he has to prove himself as just an effective fighter then any one else.

So what if in this case it's Donnie who becomes upset and goes out to the the surface and is beaten nearly to death.

[Ashwolf]

that could happen if karai attacked april unintentially

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Ashwolf

that could happen if karai attacked april unintentially

There is supposedly a moment in the upcoming episodes where April is kidnapped.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

There is supposedly a moment in the upcoming episodes where April is kidnapped.

There is? I thought the Baxter Stockman episode was the "April kidnapping" that they were alluding to.

There's another one?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by JTH

There is? I thought the Baxter Stockman episode was the "April kidnapping" that they were alluding to.

There's another one?

Well we do need to get back to the April is a mutant plot line. They've brought it up it's only fair we address the elephant in the room and having April getting captured by the Kraang or by Tiger Claw to bait out the Turtles is one way to do that.

[victory_angel]

Someone posted this from Tumbler to the official info.

[Midnight Mutant]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Someone posted this from Tumbler to the official info.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb67656b...5oyfo1_400.png

YES! They will butt heads! I was hoping/suspecting they would. : D
I'm pretty excited to see how Donnie takes up leadership and how well Raph takes it.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Midnight Mutant

YES! They will butt heads! I was hoping/suspecting they would. : D
I'm pretty excited to see how Donnie takes up leadership and how well Raph takes it.

You aren't the only one! I'm super excited about it! I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

[victory_angel]

If Donnie blames himself or at least feels that he's at fault for Leo's beating, I would not be surprised.

[Leofan26]

Originally Posted by Midnight Mutant

YES! They will butt heads! I was hoping/suspecting they would. : D
I'm pretty excited to see how Donnie takes up leadership and how well Raph takes it.

Raph seems to separated from the team at some point, maybe since Leo leaves the team and Donnie takes charge the guy leaves too to try his own thing?

I don't know about Raph following Donnie's orders right away.

If that scene of Raph taking care of Leo happens after the attack, I could see it being Donnie instead due to guilt and saying " It's a lot harder to be a leader! " Flashbacks of them butting heads over ideas and saying sorry.

I know Raph fans won't be too happy about that but it'd make sense and allow them to make up in an emotional scene, showing that they do care about each other dispite the differences.

Raph would get his own emotional moment with Leo some other way.

[ssjup81]

I can't help but wonder if Splinter appoints Donnie as leader, or if he just does so on his own. If it's the former, I could see a scenario involving an annoyed Raph occurring and storming off to cool off.

In New Girl in Town, I think it was, Donnie kept his cool while Raph freaked out and instructed Raph to get Mikey and run after he used his bo to partially trap Snakeweed. That could've been foreshadowing right there. Seems Donnie loses his cool in a high-stress situation if his time is limited (Gauntlet) or if he can't figure something out.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Leofan26

Raph seems to separated from the team at some point, maybe since Leo leaves the team and Donnie takes charge the guy leaves too to try his own thing?

I don't know about Raph following Donnie's orders right away.

If that scene of Raph taking care of Leo happens after the attack, I could see it being Donnie instead due to guilt and saying " It's a lot harder to be a leader! " Flashbacks of them butting heads over ideas and saying sorry.

I know Raph fans won't be too happy about that but it'd make sense and allow them to make up in an emotional scene, showing that they do care about each other dispite the differences.

Raph would get his own emotional moment with Leo some other way.

Well Donnie I think understood Leo's burden in leading the team. Raph wanted leadership because one he is jealous of Leo and seems to equate Leo being appointed leader is another way for his older brother to rub the fact he's better in his face. When in reality, Leo didn't ask for the role because he felt he was better then his brothers, but because it felt like a privilege.

Raph on the other hand equated Leadership with getting your way no matter what. So when Donnie isn't working fast enough for Raph's liking, he tells threatens to hit Donnie if he didn't work faster. And then later when

In New Girl in Town when Leo gives Raph the leadership role. Donnie just tells Mikey that Leo needs his space because leading their group is certainly not easy. And later when Raph freaks out Donnie doesn't need to think or ask himself what Leo would have done, because he knows Leo would have gotten them out of there.

Later in Follow the Leader, Raph takes the leadership role again. And when Donnie and Mikey start to question it, Raph just says "We don't have time to argue, lets go rescue Leo."


Wormquake is Donnie's true debut role as a leader, and even though he's concerned about what has befallen his brothers he keeps focused on keeping April and Casey safe until they are able to figure out how to get to Leo, Raph, and Mikey.

Where as when Leo comments about the "Others" (meaning Donnie, April, and Casey) were trapped in the dimensional gateway. Raph says "And the brains of the team is trapped there with 'em." Before telling Leo he's at fault for that.

So I think if Donnie's leading the group in Leo's absence, I don't think there will be much question or issue about it.