New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

I rank it number 7 in terms of worse fandoms. Surpisingly Sonic is only number 3 for me.

what's number 2 pokemon? and number 1 final fantasy?

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

I agree. And I'd love to see more IPs with great female characters. But, consider this: is it fair to demonize or find fault with the creator(s) of a property for not representing a certain type of character, maybe one that they're not comfortable representing? It sounded to me like Ciro's tried to include females before and it hasn't always worked out the way he wanted it to (they end up overpowered, etc.) To me, that's him saying that this isn't one of his strengths, and so he's shying slightly away from doing it. I can't fault the guy for that. He's telling the story he wants to tell.

You write what you know. Some dudes write great women (Joss Whedon doesn't seem to struggle), some don't. I say, if you want something to change, go out and change it - create something of your own. It's good to open up discussion and inspire others, but I wouldn't necessarily come down on someone else for doing what they want to do. Isn't that what every artist strives for?

Artists should also be allowed to be criticized for their work as well.

I wouldn't have mind what Ciro said if the show was an original work of his... but this is TMNT that has different incarnations and different characters born from them, so no I can't accept that argument.

[Electric]

a petition to get rid of ciro....from his own creation...

i reallllly hope that that doesnt cause any problems because that is ridiculous.

i get that some people really want more girls in this show, and that they could contribute to it. but this show is about the 4 male turtles. naturally their audience is young boys. thats their target. if they believe adding more females to it would detract from their target audience, then i completely understand them not doing it. not every show is going to be 50/50 on male/female characters. thats how it is. luckily, in this show we have 2, very important, very developed, very influential female characters. why cant people just accept them. why do they feel that adding unnecessary female characters is required. if they dont fit in the idea of what these show creators have in mind, then they shouldnt have to.

I also think that people are misinterpretting what ciro meant. yes he said no more females in season 2. keywords: season 2. they only just started making the third season, whats to say all these female characters they could use wont come in in future seasons. would you rather them toss in random females now and not develop or focus on them until season 5?

and to people upset about ciro having trouble controlling april, i dont get it. since there are only 2 females, whenever theres a female focused episode, its on one of 2 characters. this shows how important these 2 characters are, and how they are a major part of the show. but yet, its still about the 4 turtles, so if april starts becoming this incredibly powerful influential character, that takes away from the real focus of the show. on another note, ciro even said that he first pitched the show, focused on april. if that had occurred, the show would still likely only have 2 females in it. because those are the 2 that are important to the show at this point in time.

also, the donnie crushing on april thing, while maybe feminine, was felt necessary. he made it clear it was for donnie who needed it. he felt that donnie needed someone to try and impress, so he gave him a crush on his best friend. while this could only attract females, the way its portrayed is goofy and develops donnie in a different way.

sorry for the rant but i think people are flipping out over something that really shouldnt be an issue in the first place

[CyberCubed]

Where is the tumblr? WHERE IS IT?

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Artists should also be allowed to be criticized for their work as well.

I wouldn't have mind what Ciro said if the show was an original work of his... but this is TMNT that has different incarnations and different characters born from them, so no I can't accept that argument.

Hm. It is his version of the turtles, which is unique in it's own way. Besides, that doesn't make it easier for him to do/not do something. Hell, I'd even argue that the ladies in this version are progress compared to some (man-hungry Irma, anyone?)

And artists do have to deal with criticism, it comes with the territory and it's necessary to grow. I'm not saying these points aren't valid. But I think it's become commonplace to become too critical; too easy to hide behind our computers when giving criticism. I think it's important to remember that the people creating these properties don't owe us anything, they're trying their best to make something great. I think the discussion here has been fine... but a petition on tumblr? Is that for real??

Originally Posted by Powder

Tumblr fans = some of the worst fans

mmmyep.

[plastroncafe]

I can't even begin to tell you how stoked I am that people are talking about the one question I asked on the Podcast.

I love the new Turtle toon, but it's got a serious Lady Problem. Or what I should really call a "lack of lady" problem. I brought up the Bechdel Test because it's a simple measure of gender parity in media. Season One passes because of the limited interactions between April and Karai. My hope is that Season 2 will similarly pass.

Ciro's answer to my question was my least favorite part of his interview. He's a joy to talk to, and totally out geeked us at least once. I wasn't kidding when I said his version of Splinter is my overall franchise favorite incarnation of the character, and that I was sad I didn't get a chance to buy him a beer. Having said that, I found his answer to my question unsatisfying and troubling to say the least.

He said Teen Titans floundered because its female characters get too powerful. My response to that should have been to add more female characters to the regular roster, not limit their numbers. If there's only one or two girl characters then those characters have to be EVERYTHING, but if you have a lot of female characters then they don't have to be everything to everyone.

I didn't say this on the show because I didn't want to be rude, or make the show about me. I get that this topic isn't an issue for everyone, even if I wish that it was. Mostly though I want him to come back and talk with us again.

Look, TMNT may be targeted for boys, but that doesn't mean that girls don't watch it. Andrew even mentioned that he watches the show with his little girl. And what will she see? A good white girl and a bad girl of color. Madonna or whore. Those are her options, and that's...troubling, to put it mildly.

Representation matters.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Where is the tumblr? WHERE IS IT?

go to google search up ciro neili tumblr and you'll see people's opinions on him it's pretty interesting should say at least.

[miru]

Well, do Ms. Campbell, the Wasp, and Spy-Roach count as female characters?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by miru

Well, do Ms. Campbell, the Wasp, and Spy-Roach count as female characters?

Ms. Campbell is a robot, the wasp wasn't identifiable gender wise.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by miru

Well, do Ms. Campbell, the Wasp, and Spy-Roach count as female characters?

well they're not character's that are important aside from ms. campbell and spy roach since they do appear time to time but all their motivations is kill and destroy something in their way/path.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by turtletoons81

go to google search up ciro neili tumblr and you'll see people's opinions on him it's pretty interesting should say at least.

I did but I don't see the petition.

I gotta see some of this stupidity for myself. I bet it's filled with FemiNazi's too who make a big deal out of nothing.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I did but I don't see the petition.

I gotta see some of this stupidity for myself. I bet it's filled with FemiNazi's too who make a big deal out of nothing.

Hi.
You now have my undivided attention.
Lack of representation is not "nothing."

Let's talk about this, and your use of the derogatory term "feminazi" further.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Hi.
You now have my undivided attention.
Lack of representation is not "nothing."

Let's talk about this, and your use of the derogatory term "feminazi" further.

I'm talking about the people petitioning to get Ciro Nieli fired, not anyone here.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm talking about the people petitioning to get Ciro Nieli fired, not anyone here.

Your use of both feminazi and the phrase "make a big deal out of nothing" says otherwise.

So let's talk.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm talking about the people petitioning to get Ciro Nieli fired, not anyone here.

i think it's deleted since people that post stuff can delete the page they uploaded.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Your use of both feminazi and the phrase "make a big deal out of nothing" says otherwise.

So let's talk.

I think there should be more females in the show though. Aren't we getting Irma soon?

I'd like to see Angel return too since IDW is using her. They can connect her to the April/Casey dynamic too.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Your use of both feminazi and the phrase "make a big deal out of nothing" says otherwise.

So let's talk.

the feminazi was out of line, but the making a big deal out of nothing i agree with.

this is a kids show aimed at boys. it focuses on 4 boys, their male master, their male enemy, with his male sidekicks. along with that, their is the boys female friend, their male friend, and the enemy's female (in this case) daughter. those are the components of this show. from the getgo boys out number girls. changing that could change the show. since this is aimed at boys, and it is believed by many shows that a large number of female characters detracts from their target male audience, i do not believe that adding more should be necessary. i think people should be happy that the two females play as big of role as they do, and are two incredible characters.

and i believe people are blowing this out of the water, as this shoudlve been what was expected

[plastroncafe]

Irma's inclusion was what I was alluding to when I asked him about the Bechdel test. I was attempting to get more information without going after specific spoilers.

His answer leads me to believe we're either not getting a new female character, or we are and all they're going to talk about is boys.

Neither of those answers is particularly pleasing to me.

With the exception of a April, Karai, a robot, and the Kraang leader, every character on that show has been male. That's not just inexcusable, it's lazy storytelling.

Originally Posted by ElectricN

the feminazi was out of line, but the making a big deal out of nothing i agree with.

this is a kids show aimed at boys. it focuses on 4 boys, their male master, their male enemy, with his male sidekicks. along with that, their is the boys female friend, their male friend, and the enemy's female (in this case) daughter. those are the components of this show. from the getgo boys out number girls. changing that could change the show. since this is aimed at boys, and it is believed by many shows that a large number of female characters detracts from their target audience, i do not believe that adding more should be necessary. i think people should be happy that the two females play as big of role as they do, and are two incredible characters.

and i believe people are blowing this out of the water, as this shoudlve been what was expected

I believe you are wrong.
You seem to be suffering under the delusion that women don't outnumber men.
You also seem to be suffering under the delusion that boys are incapable of enjoying stories that involve female protagonists.

That's sad.

[NinjaMan]

I'm curious, to male Pony fans ask for more male characters in the cast since the show has 6 main female characters and other guest female characters?

[miru]

I know: maybe Playmates proposes a Mona Lisa/Ninjara/Venus/Alopex figure and tells Ciro to throw the character in to advertise the figure? Insane, but it works.