New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

Boys apparently aren't that bothered by female characters.

Too bad females are so bothered by males.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Cure

Too bad females are so bothered by males.

I'm not bothered.

I'm bothered people act like having more female characters is an inherent weakness to a cartoon.

[Machias Banshee]

Andrew, a question for you: Ciro said that he's basing a chunk of the show on the mirage comics. How many female characters ARE there in that universe?



This whole female character controversy is getting a bit overblown, I think. We're only in the beginning of season two of this show. We have NO idea what Ciro's got up his sleeve. His ideas may change over time - he may simply be misleading us. We can't predict what he's going to come up with in the future. And he CAN'T tell us EVERYthing... he's created Great female characters so far.. Does that mean nothing?

Ya know, everyone treated Ciro like this when he first started sharing details about the new show a couple years back: Ciro's terrible, he doesn't care about the viewers, he's destroyed April, he's childhood-raping the fandom... and now many of the same people who cried foul are loving the show.

The fans are doing the same thing All Over Again. A knee-jerk reaction to something they haven't even Seen yet.

Personally, I will not label him or anybody as sexist or 'he-man-woman-hater' or whatever. He's got a plan, he can't tell us everything... And really, I don't want a female character just so that the vagina-to-penis ratio is closer to equal. I want a female character that is well-written with a good backstory AS LONG as it fits into the storyline.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Don't worry, I understand how backwards western cartoons/toy companies are back then. It's why I switched to anime as a teen. I don't need to get hung up on Korra not getting an action figure because I can get a Mikasa Ackerman one.

However, it's 2013. Girls can play action figures now. Guys watch My Little Pony. It doesn't need to be "it's always like this" mantra anymore.

Correction: Grown guys watch it. Boys the age of its target demographic, though, are too grotesquely macho to like it. At least, Tara Strong's sons are; according to her. Remember that at a certain age, boys just think girls are gross. For this reason, probably the best tactic for that age is, in fact, making girls "cool" for boyish sensibilities. Being able to fight well may not be sufficient characterization for adult opinion's, but it helps boys tolerate girls in a way they wouldn't otherwise. The same diverse personalities they crave in male turtles; they don't want to touch in female ponies, because apparently having a personality is just being girly.

I still say Ciro Nielli is a hypocrite, though. If he's worried about the overly feminine tone that multiple females will bring to the show, then why is he making Don's crush on April such a big part of it, when that attracts mostly females, and estranged males? Why are there Barbie commercials during the show? Granted; those aren't his fault directly, but if they're proof Nielli's already attracted females, why not throw them a bone?

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Andrew, a question for you: Ciro said that he's basing a chunk of the show on the mirage comics. How many female characters ARE there in that universe?



This whole female character controversy is getting a bit overblown, I think. We're only in the beginning of season two of this show. We have NO idea what Ciro's got up his sleeve. His ideas may change over time - he may simply be misleading us. We can't predict what he's going to come up with in the future. And he CAN'T tell us EVERYthing... he's created Great female characters so far.. Does that mean nothing?

Ya know, everyone treated Ciro like this when he first started sharing details about the new show a couple years back: Ciro's terrible, he doesn't care about the viewers, he's destroyed April, he's childhood-raping the fandom... and now many of the same people who cried foul are loving the show.

The fans are doing the same thing All Over Again. A knee-jerk reaction to something they haven't even Seen yet.

Personally, I will not label him or anybody as sexist or 'he-man-woman-hater' or whatever. He's got a plan, he can't tell us everything... And really, I don't want a female character just so that the vagina-to-penis ratio is closer to equal. I want a female character that is well-written with a good backstory AS LONG as it fits into the storyline.

Ugh, I defended April in the first season, alright? I also didn't like the cries of "Karai's character is only defined as Leo's love interest!!!!" either.

However, the fact Ciro said Karai and April are enough female representation, while getting more OC male mutants, and that he was personally burdened by April's character (so why make her a teen then? Why not a working adult so she'd appear only when it's convenient like 4Kids did?) is what bugs me.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

... he's created Great female characters so far.. Does that mean nothing?

You mean the girl who's an awesome villain with a cool backstory?
or the girl who's main purpose is to help Donnie be awkward and move the plot?
cause if so...he's made ONE great female character.........

[Machias Banshee]

Oh don't worry, Yuffie, I'm not being specific to individuals in the thread. I just mean the fandom in general..

April's character was a major topic of discussion back at the Studio event several years back. There was a mix of "She's okay" and "Why isn't she older and a tv reporter?"

Ciro wanted a younger April that could kinda grow and learn and mature alongside the turtles, but people were so stuck in the idea of having a 30-something news-reporter no matter what... they just couldnt' wrap their heads around it.

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Andrew, a question for you: Ciro said that he's basing a chunk of the show on the mirage comics. How many female characters ARE there in that universe?



This whole female character controversy is getting a bit overblown, I think. We're only in the beginning of season two of this show. We have NO idea what Ciro's got up his sleeve. His ideas may change over time - he may simply be misleading us. We can't predict what he's going to come up with in the future. And he CAN'T tell us EVERYthing... he's created Great female characters so far.. Does that mean nothing?

Ya know, everyone treated Ciro like this when he first started sharing details about the new show a couple years back: Ciro's terrible, he doesn't care about the viewers, he's destroyed April, he's childhood-raping the fandom... and now many of the same people who cried foul are loving the show.

The fans are doing the same thing All Over Again. A knee-jerk reaction to something they haven't even Seen yet.

Personally, I will not label him or anybody as sexist or 'he-man-woman-hater' or whatever. He's got a plan, he can't tell us everything... And really, I don't want a female character just so that the vagina-to-penis ratio is closer to equal. I want a female character that is well-written with a good backstory AS LONG as it fits into the storyline.

QFT

I enjoy a show for a variety of reasons, not because I can check off the demographics it represents on a scorecard. Sounds like they have big plans for both Karai and April, so I agree with you - better to flesh out the existing female characters than to try and squeeze in more just for the sake of doing so.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Oh don't worry, Yuffie, I'm not being specific to individuals in the thread. I just mean the fandom in general..

April's character was a major topic of discussion back at the Studio event several years back. There was a mix of "She's okay" and "Why isn't she older and a tv reporter?"

Ciro wanted a younger April that could kinda grow and learn and mature alongside the turtles, but people were so stuck in the idea of having a 30-something news-reporter no matter what... they just couldnt' wrap their heads around it.

April's sadly underused. The first season proved that (when I can't explain to a non-viewer why the Kraang are after her in the first place, that's troublesome, and I understand End of Evangelion). I hope that'll change in the second one.

Again, if Ciro had trouble with her, he should have not bothered to make her the Turtles' age/Don's tween crush in the first place.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

April's sadly underused. The first season proved that. I hope that'll change in the second one.

Again, if Ciro had trouble with her, he should have not bothered to make her the Turtles' age/Don's tween crush in the first place.

I just don't get why he has trouble with her though.......she doesn't have to do much.....she could be a supportive sister, someone to talk to other than Splinter.

kinda like 2003 April.

[Heather Breckel]

Originally Posted by Cure

Too bad females are so bothered by males.

Being bothered by lack of female characters ≠ females being bothered by males. I'm okay with shows having primarily male characters, I mean I'm obviously a TMNT fan and I enjoy a lot of shonen manga. The problem isn't that TMNT is mostly males. The problem is the silly reasoning behind not wanting to have more female characters.

I truly believe Ciro wasn't trying to be offensive and I'm sure there will be more female characters down the line. But lack of female representation in American entertainment is kind of a hot button issue right now, so obviously what he said is going to cause some sparks, especially on a place like tumblr. I mean, this is hot on the heels of a Disney animator saying "females are hard to animate", so of course it's going to blow up.

[miru]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Well.. the show is about mutants... and having a vagina automatically cancels out the effects of mutagen... so... no female mutant characters. Honestly though... Mutagen rains all over the city and not one female mutant. Sexist fools.

The mutant wasp monster was female, but it wasn't sapient. Also, who knows if the Squirellanoids were male or female? Or Justin, the Sea Monster, et al.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

Being bothered by lack of female characters ≠ females being bothered by males. I'm okay with shows having primarily male characters, I mean I'm obviously a TMNT fan and I enjoy a lot of shonen manga. The problem isn't that TMNT is mostly males. The problem is the silly reasoning behind not wanting to have more female characters.

I truly believe Ciro wasn't trying to be offensive and I'm sure there will be more female characters down the line. But lack of female representation in American entertainment is kind of a hot button issue right now, so obviously what he said is going to cause some sparks, especially on a place like tumblr.

true i thought ciro was giving his own thoughts on female's for next season or so ,but what he didn't know that it caused a huge sh*tstorm at tumblr that some people already made a petiton to kick him out which is insanely stupid just because of he gave a thought on tmnt female's future works

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by turtletoons81

true i thought ciro was giving his own thoughts on female's for next season or so ,but what he didn't know that it caused a huge sh*tstorm at tumblr that some people already made a petiton to kick him out which is insanely stupid just because of he gave a thought on tmnt female's future works

whoa whoa whoa! I want more females but I don't wanna get rid of Ciro!! what he has made is awesome!! XD these turtles are da best

I'm just sad that he isn't trying a little harder to put more girls in the show...I'm sure he can do it

[Heather Breckel]

To be fair, everyone gets upset about everything on tumblr, so I try not to take it too seriously. I'm sure Ciro won't get in any serious trouble over an internet petition. (at least I hope not!)

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

whoa whoa whoa! I want more females but I don't wanna get rid of Ciro!! what he has made is awesome!! XD these turtles are da best

I'm just sad that he isn't trying a little harder to put more girls in the show...I'm sure he can do it

he's a great guy no doubt,but yeah i wished he made more females but sadly he has to work 24/7 with the designs of new character's and expressions that make's him alot tired out.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

To be fair, everyone gets upset about everything on tumblr, so I try not to take it too seriously. I'm sure Ciro won't get in any serious trouble over an internet petition. (at least I hope not!)

Tumblr fans = some of the worst fans

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by Powder

Tumblr fans = some of the worst fans

I rank it number 7 in terms of worse fandoms. Surpisingly Sonic is only number 3 for me.

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Heather Breckel

Being bothered by lack of female characters ≠ females being bothered by males. I'm okay with shows having primarily male characters, I mean I'm obviously a TMNT fan and I enjoy a lot of shonen manga. The problem isn't that TMNT is mostly males. The problem is the silly reasoning behind not wanting to have more female characters.

I truly believe Ciro wasn't trying to be offensive and I'm sure there will be more female characters down the line. But lack of female representation in American entertainment is kind of a hot button issue right now, so obviously what he said is going to cause some sparks, especially on a place like tumblr. I mean, this is hot on the heels of a Disney animator saying "females are hard to animate", so of course it's going to blow up.

I agree. And I'd love to see more IPs with great female characters. But, consider this: is it fair to demonize or find fault with the creator(s) of a property for not representing a certain type of character, maybe one that they're not comfortable representing? It sounded to me like Ciro's tried to include females before and it hasn't always worked out the way he wanted it to (they end up overpowered, etc.) To me, that's him saying that this isn't one of his strengths, and so he's shying slightly away from doing it. I can't fault the guy for that. He's telling the story he wants to tell.

You write what you know. Some dudes write great women (Joss Whedon doesn't seem to struggle), some don't. I say, if you want something to change, go out and change it - create something of your own. It's good to open up discussion and inspire others, but I wouldn't necessarily come down on someone else for doing what they want to do. Isn't that what every artist strives for?

[CyberCubed]

Where is this tumblr stuff happening? Link?