Official Episode Discussion S2 #19 "The Wrath of Tiger Claw""

[Raph's Girl]

Anybody else catch the Archie reference?? Casey refered to Tiger Claw as Cat Man Dude. Katmandu was a character in the Archie books. He was a 4 armed Samurai Tiger the turtles encountered in China.

[pennydreadful]

Just watched it... hell to the yes, that was AWESOME!



NickCasey's still an unbelievable asshat though - Irma, nasty? Seriously?

But god that episode was good eatin'.

[Donatello19]

Finally got around to watching it, and it's definitely the best of S2 yet.

First let's talk about Karai...she has quickly become one of my favorite characters on the show. This episode was her best role yet...she went through a lot of different emotions and showed a whole new side of herself. I agree with some others have said in this thread, in that she is becoming/is a good female role model. I can't wait to see her again and what she'll decide to do with herself. Favorite moment with her was when she realizes that Splinter is actually her real father and kinda freaks out because she set them up, thinking that Splinter was the enemy still. Karai is my second favorite character now.

So...it's turns out the storyboards were real after all, and I'm glad they were, because the scene where they literally just lock her up and leave her in there all alone is pretty dark. That scene was awesome and I can't wait to see how she'll get out of there. So if this storyboard was real, I guess the Apriltello one is, too...not sure what to think of that, really. I don't hate it but I don't love it either.

Tiger Claw was awesome, a really great villain if you ask me.

80's TMNT cameo was cool.

Mikey was actually useful in this episode! Both plans he came up with worked, and the one to lead TC to the meat locker so he wouldn't be able to follow their scent was very smart of Mikey to think of.

Speaking of...the meat locker fight scene. That was just epic and words cannot describe how cool it was.

Poor Irma...I wonder if they'll ever tell her about the turtles?

It's little touches like showing Kirby briefly and having them at Murakami's again that made this episode even more cool.

So if you couldn't have guessed, I loved this episode and will re-watch it many times. Excited for all the upcoming episodes except Plan 10...but it will be a small price to pay for two more awesome Karai/Foot oriented episodes.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

That's what I thought too when Tigerclaw unsheathed his claws like that, it looked to me like he was honestly going to kill him. Especially when we see Mr. Murigami next and he's lying on the ground, I thought, 'Now they are going to come across a corpse."

Totes - Tigerclaw is a force to be reckoned with; he leaves the rest of Shredder's henchmen in the dust, IMO.

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

- Why is it that in most action cartoons, the Villain(s) says that they're going to destroy the hero(es) instead of killing them?

I think that's something that they have to do for censorship reasons.

Originally Posted by Donatello19

First let's talk about Karai...she has quickly become one of my favorite characters on the show. This episode was her best role yet...she went through a lot of different emotions and showed a whole new side of herself. I agree with some others have said in this thread, in that she is becoming/is a good female role model. I can't wait to see her again and what she'll decide to do with herself. Favorite moment with her was when she realizes that Splinter is actually her real father and kinda freaks out because she set them up, thinking that Splinter was the enemy still. Karai is my second favorite character now.

This episode was magnificent, definitely one of the best for the whole season. I loved having a non-kraang/mutant-of-the-week episode, and I'd totally been hanging for some more Karai action. Funnily enough I hated Karai the first time I watched Season 1 - I felt like they'd just put her in so that April would have a girl character to fight. But after rewatching, she's one of my favourite characters - I really like the development that they've put into her, her emotions and motivations and personality.

Her conflict in this episode was terrific, and it was really sweet to see her standing there looking Splinter in the eye, for the first time realising the truth - and realising all the mistakes she had made, what had been taken from her, and that her whole life up until this point had been a lie.

I also think that it's realistic for Raph to still not trust her yet - I think that he will warm to her eventually but it's not in his nature to automatically trust someone who's tangled with them so many times in the past.

Last but certainly not least, April was much less annoying in this episode - it was good to see her doing normal stuff like going to a movie... though I think the way she and Casey treat Irma is pretty mean. If someone was constantly running off and ditching me when we hung out, I just wouldn't want to be friends with them at all - so I hope they start treating her a bit better sooner rather than later.

Overall - plus one episode of awesome!

[MCLeo28]

Wow, just wow, I must say, this episode had to be one of the best episodes of TMNT 2012 so far. I really enjoyed the beginning involving an internal conflict with Karai where she starts having doubts about Shredder, but still remains loyal to Shredder. Tiger Claw's return was certainly the best part of this episode and I was hooked with how he actually got back and also interesting that he lost his eyeball when fighting a Giant Eyeball Mutant (how ironic?).

The action of this episode was great. Was nice to see Casey Jones fighting Tiger Claw and actually fighting intelligently instead of being reckless. Tiger Claw vs. Turtles was really well done, however, I felt Tiger Claw was unusually powerful. I understand him going through multiple dimensions, but in Wormquake, he could only fend off Leonardo, and now, he can suddenly fend off all 4 of the Turtles? That was one issue, but then again, this also means Tiger Claw is one of the only mutants that are threatening to the turtles and that's a major plus.

Karai's development was strong as we witness Karai's change of motions and how emotionally impacted she is after Shredder confesses that Splinter is her true father, and seeing her helpless as Tiger Claw and Shredder just leave her in jail. Such a dark scene. It's still nice to see that after all of Karai's suffering and willingness to save them against Tiger Claw that Raphael still doesn't trust her, which is understandable and she deceived them and allowed Tiger Claw to find them as well as her causing them trouble in the past.

Overall, definitely a great episode. I'm seeing a nerf to Tiger Claw in the future since Fishface and Rahzar are showing up and no way the Turtles can fight all 3 of them if Tiger Claw is OP as he is.

[drgon78]

Great episode , loved that Mikey was useful, loved seeing April, Irma, and Casey coming out of the movie theatre, Tiger Claw is a dangerous enemy.

[snake]

D-Did Tigerclaw kill the OT turtles?

[Powder]

Had trouble falling back asleep after this one, got my adrenaline flowing! What a good episode. Interesting to see that the storyboards were authentic. The fact Shredder had one mutant left to plan out and make happen, and that he now has Karai captive, gives some potential credit to the rumor she'd get mutated.

I'm betting she becomes Venus temporarily. Shredder might be on some "Yo you like turtles so much why don't you be one?" type ish, plus there's the angle that she's the turtles' sister. I could see Donnie making more retro-mutagen but only having so much, which prompts Splinter to give up his potential humanity so that his daughter can go back to normal, and that's how they'll forge a bond.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Powder

Had trouble falling back asleep after this one, got my adrenaline flowing! What a good episode. Interesting to see that the storyboards were authentic. The fact Shredder had one mutant left to plan out and make happen, and that he now has Karai captive, gives some potential credit to the rumor she'd get mutated.

I'm betting she becomes Venus temporarily. Shredder might be on some "Yo you like turtles so much why don't you be one?" type ish, plus there's the angle that she's the turtles' sister. I could see Donnie making more retro-mutagen but only having so much, which prompts Splinter to give up his potential humanity so that his daughter can go back to normal, and that's how they'll forge a bond.

That would be the best way to do Venus. But if Karai mutates into Venus and even if its well done in a way like that, I expect that this whole forum will go up in arms.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by snake

That would be the best way to do Venus. But if Karai mutates into Venus and even if its well done in a way like, I expect that this whole forum will go up in arms.

No way. I'm going to go ahead and say that, if the plan is for Karai to mutate, that's the best possible way to do it, and the homage would play on multiple elements at once. Hope it happens.

Also, that episode. Damn, man.

And that fight scene was a top-fiver in the history of multimedia TMNT.

[TigerClaw]

Here's Black Nerd's review of The Wrath of Tiger Claw

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Cipher

No way. I'm going to go ahead and say that, if the plan is for Karai to mutate, that's the best possible way to do it, and the homage would play on multiple elements at once. Hope it happens.

Also, that episode. Damn, man.

I hope she doesn't get mutated into a turtle because of the fandom's hatred towards Venus. I'm one of the rare who liked the concept of Venus, but even I don't think it should be done here.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I hope she doesn't get mutated into a turtle because of the fandom's hatred towards Venus. I'm one of the rare who liked the concept of Venus, but even I don't think it should be done here.

I liked Venus back in the day. I wasn't too thrilled with the guys not being brothers in Next Mutation, but Venus never got on my nerves or anything. I agree, hope Karai doesn't turn out to be Venus. I'd like to see some original female mutants. If she does mutate, I hope she's one of these. Guess time will tell.

Mikey's shell got knocked loose in this episode, and this one took place before Pizzaface chronologically, right? So even though that episode wasn't a dream, guess he healed up pretty quick! That guy would risk life and limb to protect pizza and pizza consumers, though. Still, the knocked loose shell thing has to hurt.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

Mikey's shell got knocked loose in this episode, and this one took place before Pizzaface chronologically, right? So even though that episode wasn't a dream, guess he healed up pretty quick! That guy would risk life and limb to protect pizza and pizza consumers, though. Still, the knocked loose shell thing has to hurt.

oh so...maybe he was healing after the battle and had that trippy pizza dream?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Powder

Had trouble falling back asleep after this one, got my adrenaline flowing! What a good episode. Interesting to see that the storyboards were authentic. The fact Shredder had one mutant left to plan out and make happen, and that he now has Karai captive, gives some potential credit to the rumor she'd get mutated.

I'm betting she becomes Venus temporarily. Shredder might be on some "Yo you like turtles so much why don't you be one?" type ish, plus there's the angle that she's the turtles' sister. I could see Donnie making more retro-mutagen but only having so much, which prompts Splinter to give up his potential humanity so that his daughter can go back to normal, and that's how they'll forge a bond.

Donnie has always been the most loyal to Leonardo. I know he said he trusted April's judgment over Leo's, and we all know April has been gullible before. But when Leo said they were taking Karai to the Lair even Donnie had his trepidation about the issue, even though it was mostly because Raph would be up in arms about it. After all the other Turtles have no reason to really trust Karai. With Raph it's mostly because she's with the Foot and Kunoichi are trained to deceive and seduce their opponents. So any one who is a Foot is in the Foot for life in his book.

Donnie is hesitant to trust Karai because she has tried to kill April in the past. And even if she is Splinter's daughter, that is still something he will never truly forgive her for.

I don't know if Leo really saw Karai as a love interest. I mean yeah he may have seen or sensed something familiar in her but couldn't place it other then the fact there was something that made her seem different from the rest of the Foot Clan. And now that he knows Karai is their sister, he wants to save her from the Foot because she's Splinter's daughter, not because he sees her as a girl friend.

It would have been better judgement on Leo's part to say "Karai, there is something you should see." And then leaving Donnie and April with Karai. Or maybe even sending April to go retrieve the said picture of Hamato Yoshi and Teng Shen holding of Miwa as a baby.

But then again, even if her intent was to play them. Karai did need to discover the truth for herself.

As for Karai's mutation. Well even Donnie wouldn't wish such a thing on his worst enemy. Splinter has stated he's content be who he is and that the world outside the lair holds nothing for him. So I think Donnie would offer the possibility of restoring her humanity simply because she is Splinter's daughter.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

I think my favorite part of the episode was that beautifully animated scene of Karai walking into the dojo and looking up at the tree. Great little detail there.

[kolaida]

Now I know, thank you, MCLeo28

Anyway, this episode was great, loved the meat locker scene, looked like something straight out of a horror movie. The fight was awesome, especially loved the Karai bits. Thought it was silly of Leo to bring her to the lair, but I know he really wanted to believe and that clouds judgement. Glad Raph is sticking to his guns about not trusting her, very Raph of him ( and kinda common sense, lol).

Loved the Mikey bits and glad it's illustrated that a person can be fun and silly and still have good ideas.

Favorite part was when Karai saw the pics and realized Leo had been telling her the truth and that Shredder had been lying. Loved that scene in the Lair with the tree, Splinter, and just the truth finally really hitting her.

[MCLeo28]

^ Production codes indicates that.

@TurtleTron

I also liked that detail. Makes for a more "emotional" response when she discovered the truth for herself.

Edit: Also, in the next episode's preview, Fishface said, "I believe you have something we need." I'm just going to make a wild guess that the Foot believes the Turtles stole The Shredder's helmet, so it leads to a pointless clash. At least, that's what I'm thinking.

[Refractive Reflections]

You see Nick... ...when you stick with the plotlines and focus on the characters, the reception is far better. But you've teased us too many times before when you give the appearance this is the direction you want to lead us to ("Follow the Leader", "Slash and Destroy"), but then disappoint us with your plot amnesia, Mutants of the Week, and the Donnie/April/Casey love triangle.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm glad we saw Kirby again for the first time since being back to normal. Also interesting how beat up Mikey and Casey were.

I actually wish we saw more of the scene where Tiger Claw breaks out of the worm and fights the 80's Turtles.

Originally Posted by Huzzah

I was just curious how the OT Turtles handled the battle with Tiger Claw, probably the most hardcore fight of their existence, it probably lasted no more than a few seconds. They probably had trouble walking away.

Originally Posted by snake

D-Did Tigerclaw kill the OT turtles?

As for the 80s Turtles, they've handled worse in the Red Sky seasons, especially with Dregg, and in Turtles Forever with Ch'rell, so I don't think they died. Otherwise they would have made it far more explicit like TigerClaw did with the Kraang armies where he was depicted in just before decapitating the soldiers of the army in those flashback scenes with his sword. In fact, Nick Mikey was more beaten up than OT Michelangelo, and Nick Mikey survived, so if that interpretation means anything... **shrug**

As much as we would have wanted to see the detail of TigerClaw going through the OT world, I highly doubt the production staff could do that considering the animation restrictions and legwork of continuing the OT cameo.

I have to say though that bringing back TigerClaw so soon within the series, 5 episodes later, doesn't really put a lot of weight into the arduous difficult journey he made. Then again, we are dealing with dimensional travel so who knows... Nevertheless, it came across as somewhat of a plot hole where they had to use flashback images rather than giving more detail unto how exactly TigerClaw made it back in dimension hoping, just so they can bring this ruthless character back... using a deus ex machina explanation. ...Then again, it could provide some mystique to the whole dimension hoping aspect of this series. Um... speaking of which, will the Nick Technodrome ever come back?

...But at minimum they did consider the path of TigerClaw's journey (the Kraathatrogon in the OT universe) rather than leaving an inexplicable development, such as in how Slash and Raph's other brothers seemed to oddly be reconciled to one other. So Kudos for that at least for the show remembering that detail.

And please Nick TMNT, no more 80s Turtles cameos... the show needs to develop more of its own universe far more.

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

This was Fantastic...

After so many side-stories of the Kraang and the different mutants each week, this has been such a refreshing change. The writing team should really pat themselves on the back for this. The pacing was great, the quick backstory to Tiger Claw's return from Dimension X was really good with the flashback style that they use - I love the simple colorscheme on those.

Karai really felt like a three-dimensional character in this. She went through So many different emotions when she found out the truth from Splinter. Sadly, as much as she knows the truth now, I don't think they'll be able to really repair that relationship. She's been brainwashed into her way of life for so long, there's just some damage that can't be repaired.

Originally Posted by TurtleTron

I think my favorite part of the episode was that beautifully animated scene of Karai walking into the dojo and looking up at the tree. Great little detail there.

Karai's character was finally expanded on and I have to congratulate Nick on that. I enjoyed how deceptively convincing Karai was to the Turtles and even to audience in assuming she believed that she was Miwa. It was a great twist. I was captivated with the scene when she walked into the dojo and the revelations about the truth of her father. Her initial slight guilt in entering the dojo, the wonder and warmth of the tree, the shocking revelations of the truth with her facial movements, etc. The effort on this life-changing development for Karai was clearly shown here and it worked as I found myself going back and back to that particular scene.

..But there's still the awkward situation of Karai being Leo's sister, right? So how will Nick handle that weirdness if they even bother at all with it?


It was nice to see Mikey having some, or should I say a bit of redeeming brains after the past few episodes just dragged his intelligence into the sewer, so to speak. But I won't be surprised if they regress back to Nick Mikey doing dumb things, saying dumb things, and acting disgusting as their crutch of humor.

And yes jth, celebrate your correct prediction. But you can't blame our skepticism considering how wild things can be on the internet.
Which brings up the whole Apriltello scene... Is it true? If it is, will it elevate into anything beyond a dream sequence as some have wondered? Who knows, but nevertheless I really wish that whole crush thing was diminished. It's getting old.


Probably the most significant flaw I saw with this episode, was TigerClaw's hate logic. With so much overwhelming fury toward the Turtles and wanting to destroy all the Turtles were associated with (April and Casey), I don't understand why he wouldn't kill Casey when he would be seen as useless pawn in getting to the Turtles, when TigerClaw was already ready and willing to kill the Turtles and wanting to destroy all those who are close to them. In actuality, I know the production staff wouldn't kill off Casey Jones because it's a kids cartoon, but this show has been known to overstep its own logic for melodrama sake. One notable example was when the Foot-Bots in "Target: April O' Neil" could supposedly learn every single move the Turtles could make, but then that established development goes down the drain 2-3 episodes later when they can easily defeat them. So yeah, sure the fights with TigerClaw are impressive but his vengeance didn't truly carry though all the way as you would expect with his bravado dialogue.

As for the main direction of the series, after reading the summaries for the next few episodes, it seems it will be more about rescuing Karai and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets mutated near the season 2 finale. Don't want it, but at least it's a little more justifiable than the random mutagen spill like so many other mutants have experienced, since there's more intentional malice in this, even more than compared to Baxter Stockman's mutation, so kudos to that then.

Overall it was good, but it's one of those few good episodes in an abundance of disappointing ones within this second season. So I'll just wait and see...

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Powder

I'm betting she becomes Venus temporarily. Shredder might be on some "Yo you like turtles so much why don't you be one?" type ish, plus there's the angle that she's the turtles' sister. I could see Donnie making more retro-mutagen but only having so much, which prompts Splinter to give up his potential humanity so that his daughter can go back to normal, and that's how they'll forge a bond.

That would definitely be a really good approach to trying to do a non-sucky Venus... I'd actually be curious to see whether they could pull it off - but given how universally loathed Venus is, I'm not sure whether it's a creative decision they'd be game to make. Then again, this show is really good at surprising me, so it could definitely be a possibility!