A return to the Turtles' alcohol consumption?

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

You're disproving your own case.

I know that contradicts my point. I mentioned that because they can’t just train and fight 24-7 but drinking is actually something that can do more harm than good generally speaking. So why include it?

How so?

Because it’s alcohol. Maybe it’s not fair because it can be done in moderation but it’s one of those things that carries a different weight just by association.

I'm only speaking to the comics. The source material, where they were raised by Splinter for the sole purpose of revenge-killing a man (Saki). And yes, they encounter villains now and again (but they're NOT vigilantes... they are not going out there fighting mankind's crime for the sake of humanity, they don't care about that and why would they?) but their training from 0-15 would consist solely of being better and quicker on the draw than Oroku Saki when it comes time to fight him and murder him. That's it.

Well he’s still a villain. They’re not trying to kill anyone who happens to annoy them.

I know there’s a lot of comics. Not sure where the original source would cut off but I’m assuming they fight other villains of their own choice even if they don’t necessarily need to. Like I imagine some of it is to help others. Unless I’m wrong.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ironically enough, I've always been sort of a hardliner about substances and I hold no sympathy for "addicts", and my personal views on the subject can seemingly make no sense to an outside observer, but it's all been shaped and informed by my life and the people I've been around extensively, and thus they make perfect sense to me and the people who've been close to me for a very long time.

Like, for example I do feel that things like cocaine and heroin go hand-in-hand with being a bad person, either as a direct cause or merely a side effect, but I don't think it's possible to be a decent human being while also consuming those substances, I think they're antithetical entirely to being a "good person". Alcohol, not so much. Although if someone's already a bad person, they definitely shouldn't drink, but you can drink and still in theory be a good person.

I'unno, it all makes sense if you know me or my family really well.

Curious, how do you view smoking and smokers in comparison to the other two types of people you described?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm only speaking to the comics. The source material, where they were raised by Splinter for the sole purpose of revenge-killing a man (Saki). And yes, they encounter villains now and again (but they're NOT vigilantes... they are not going out there fighting mankind's crime for the sake of humanity, they don't care about that and why would they?) but their training from 0-15 would consist solely of being better and quicker on the draw than Oroku Saki when it comes time to fight him and murder him. That's it.

They'd get a little schooling. Math so they can count and figure out odds (huh, I'm outnumbered 2 to 1, for example), probably some Japanese so they can eavesdrop on Saki... but I can't think of anything else that would be useful.

[lonewarrior20]

I wonder which one would be good at the drunken fist? My bets mikey since he always has to have a loose balance when he uses his chucks.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Does Batman drink? I briefly googled it and it looks like no.

As Bruce Wayne, he took a sip in Batman Begins.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Stone Cold dressing up as a ninja turtle om Halloween

Idea for cartoon drawing : Mr Miyagi and Splinter smoking weed while Daniel and TMNT are shocked and disbeliefed and p.o

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm sure he does socially, to keep up appearances as Bruce Wayne. But like when he's in focused Batman mode, or mulling over a case in the Batcave? No, certainly not. Nor would he ever be like, "Damn, I could use a drink." But that's a dumb comparison as the Turtles are nothing like Batman on any level beyond a vague revenge level in their origins.

Perhaps not canon to the 'main' DC Universe but I'm pretty sure in The Dark Knight Returns it's mentioned that as Bruce Wayne he used to pretend to drink alcohol so to appear as a playboy but still keeps his wits about him.

[Leo656]

Batfleck chased painkillers with whiskey on at least one occasion, but to be fair he'd been Batmanning for 20 years by that point and was pretty physically and mentally broken to the point where he was pretty much ready to die, so that's a bit of an extreme circumstance. Pretty sure "in his prime" Batman doesn't drink, though.

As far as "People who want to maintain prime fitness and be able to perform at a peak level don't pollute their body with substances", well... that's simple childish naivete, although I admit I used to think that, too, until I knew more and actually got involved in a pseudo-sport. But take a glance at just about any pro wrestler, for example, I mean just Google "pro wrestlers" on Image Search, and you'll see tons of guys and girls with Adonis physiques and 1% body fat... watch any modern-era match and you'll see these people perform feats of athleticism that are damn near super-human... and I'd hate to burst anyone's bubble, but without naming names I can say with good authority that 99.999% of those gods and goddesses spend most of their waking hours drunk, coked-up, and pilled to the gourd. You'd think, "Well, they can't PERFORM in that state, that's just for recreation"... and that's also bullsh*t. Look up any match Shawn Michaels performed in between 1995 and 1997; he was doing amazing feats of gymnastics and physical derring-do, despite being SO pilled up and drunk nearly 24/7 that he barely remembers those years of his life.

I jump to that field because I've worked in that business, know some of the horror stories firsthand, and it's easy to tell they're in fantastic shape at a glance because it's an area of athletics where everybody's half-naked. Rest assured, as a kid I was pretty crestfallen to discover that so many of my "heroes" were degenerates, but them's the breaks.

But it's pretty much true in any high-level athletic endeavor, from the NFL to the Olympics; just about every high-performance athlete lives their daily life in a haze of alcohol, booze, amphetamines, painkillers and cocaine, simply to get up and function, because things like working out 14 hours a day and living out of a suitcase half the time play hell with your body. Major League Baseball was riddled with alcohol and amphetamines for decades before they cracked down on it, way before anyone made any noise about steroids. The NFL has always been a bunch of drunken coke-heads. And stories of drunken decadence at the Olympic Village before/during/after the Games has become legendary; basically, every single Olympics, if they're not on the field and the cameras aren't on, most of the athletes are binge-drinking and having orgies.

It is what it is, but fact is, for whatever reason, substance use, and even full-blown abuse, doesn't impede one's ability to perform at an incredibly high level, athletically. In fact, it's often a required necessity to be constantly drunk/stoned simply for these people to ignore the pain long enough to perform and/or sleep through the night.

Frankly, it's why I was always content to not pursue my chosen "sport" at anything more than a small, local level. If you're wrestling on TV, you're basically a functional alcoholic who's hooked on pain pills and coke. But you still look great! I simply knew that's the "dark side" of the life and I never wanted to be rich and famous so I don't get involved that deep.

You get my point, though. Drugs and alcohol are bad but they're pretty much a necessity to be a high-performance athlete, not a detriment. So if the Turtles were real, and they got in half as many serious fights as they're portrayed, then yeah, if all they did was drink beer they'd be way ahead of most.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Curious, how do you view smoking and smokers in comparison to the other two types of people you described?

Interesting question! Frankly I think it's stupid knowing what we know now about the damage it does to your body long-term, and also having a few people in my family (including my mother's sister) die slowly from Emphysema over 20+ years. I can safely say that nobody wants to go out that way - my Aunt was diagnosed in 1997 and given a couple of years to live, but she made it through until a couple years ago, and her quality of life was not great by then. Like everyone else who smokes cigarettes, she always had the "My body, my problem" attitude until she got cancer, and by the end when she was wheeling around in her chair with an oxygen tank watching her own kids chain-smoke, she'd get SO f*cking mad at them for smoking. "You think this sh*t is fun?! You wanna end up on a f*cking tube under a tent? The f*ck is wrong with you?!" But, she's dead and they still smoke, so obviously nobody really learned anything.

For me, the fact that everyone I ever knew who smoked spent every day wishing they could quit, and openly talking about that, says a lot about it. Like I've known unrepentant substance abusers of every flavor, many who went to their graves swearing up and down that the coke/pills/misc. were actually improving their lives instead of ruining them, but I've only ever known smokers who constantly say they wish they never started. So I figure, must be pretty bad. Or as my Dad used to say, "The hell's the point of smoking anything that don't get you high, man?" (He was a big hippie; those people are gross, but I get the basic gist of his point )

I will say, though, that while I find just about any self-abusive/self-destructive behavior to be pretty stupid, and am judgmental as f*ck about it, at least smoking cigarettes only minimally affects one's personality. I've known plenty of people who get all "Jekkyl and Hyde" when they're drunk or on pills/coke, but at least smoking cigarettes doesn't have that effect on people. So at least the only people's lives who are negatively impacted are their own.

Interesting question, sir.

[pferreira]

I guess it depends how you want your characters to be portrayed. Do you want the TMNT to be likeable role models or 'realistic' examples of underclass teens? By all means have them illegally drink alcohol however alcohol will to some extent impair their abilities and that's if they don't get tipsy. Depends the narrative or representation you want to push. Pizza clearly was never supposed to be seen as a drug so not sure where you got that from.

[Hamato Yoshi]

I agree , we dont know these celebs privately , heard Dolph L did coke at a bar in Stockholm few yrs ago

"stories of drunken decadence at the Olympic Village"

Reminds me what WCW Frank Andersson once said when he went to Vegas from the olympics : "my d**k has needs"

[PApagreg]

I don't know about beer but I wouldn't mind seeing the turtles casually drink Sake, maybe with a meal or in celebration.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi

I agree , we dont know these celebs privately , heard Dolph L did coke at a bar in Stockholm few yrs ago

Ah, yeah, Lundgren was a notoriously heavy coke user going back to his relationship with Grace Jones back in the 80s. That was a real heartbreaker when I found that out but at the same time it isn't terribly surprising. And like my father, a notorious degenerate, used to say, "Nobody ever gets 'clean', they just get discreet," So there ya go.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

They are teenagers and under the law it is illegal for anyone under 21 to consume alcohol. Even if legal after 21 it is still morally questionable and the TMNT are ones to follow morals. If they must act they must not be intoxicated so they should not imbibe if they could be dealing with effects of drinking if one a mission that comes up at any time. Some heroes especially those popular with adolescence do not partake in such things (Batman, Spider-Man, Superman)and it has become a part of their character while others it is expected of and some times used to teach against it like with Iron Man. They are also beloved heroes for all ages and like you said we don't want to have the wrong message sent even if they are turtles. I would rather the Turtles abstain from drinking alcohol. It may have been something they did when they were a parody of 80s' comics aimed at adults, but Ninja Turtles is a franchise now and it is best left to the very early days. Other characters can be depicted as periodic drinkers like Casey Jones on an emotional roller coaster if he is of age or a villain however.

As a Marvel and especially a Spidey fan (it's even in my name) I can attest that Spider-Man does INDEED drink. There was even an issue of ASM during the Strazynski run where he and Mary-Jane got giggling drunk in a restaurant. It was quite an amusing scene! So despite common headcanon, yes, he DOES drink! In fact, even Captain America has been known to knock back a beer or two on occasion, though not to the point of passing out soused. (So does Batman, for that matter, as Bruce he often drinks at parties, but usually only a glass or two.)

I can and do see the turtles drinking on occasion, though probably only Raph would do it on the regular, if only because he spends a lot of time hanging out with Casey. They probably keep it to the minimum though, except on rare occasions where they feel completely safe and secure.

[Powder]

This thread was partially responsible for me commissioning Frank Fosco to draw the Vol. 3 turtles having some beers after a fight. Enjoy.

[snake]

The amount of people in this thread against the turtles drinking is astounding. Who gives a sh*t? It'd be pretty in-character for Raph to get wasted with Casey every once in awhile.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ah, yeah, Lundgren was a notoriously heavy coke user going back to his relationship with Grace Jones back in the 80s. That was a real heartbreaker when I found that out but at the same time it isn't terribly surprising. And like my father, a notorious degenerate, used to say, "Nobody ever gets 'clean', they just get discreet," So there ya go.

Considering that the message of not doing steroids embodied by Ivan Drago would emphasize the actor would be one against actual drug use of any kind. Kind of how Hal Smith who played town drunk Otis Campbell, was a teetotaler his whole life and the message of his character was not to be like the character. I am disappointed to learn Dolph was and may still be cokehead. Being an MIT masters graduate and intellectual I always wondered despite the roles he embodies why he did not pursue a job in science after the mid 90s and his acting credits slowed down significantly.

[neatoman]

Maybe we're getting a little off-topic but since we're talking about Dolph, I might as well share these recent-ish commercial he did for a Swedish online casino.



Funny thing, my cousin works for that casino.

[Hamato Yoshi]

I heard that even Barbra smoked weed with Sellers once , Presleys body guard Red West also did acid once before it became in

As for TMNT , unless they try like 1990 then were not seeing them drink in a movie......i dont care , i even wish Bond would smoke and slap a womans behind if he feels like it

Bond is a killer and when you think about it Mirage TMNT wasnt really for kids so.......

I dont have an issue with Dolph , hes nice to people , met him myself few yrs ago......Grace and Jerry Hall prolly did drugs when they lived in Paris , Jones have quite the temper ive heard , she can trash hotel rooms

[Hamato Yoshi]

Maybe mr Miyagi drinks in the first movie cuz hes lonely

[Leo656]

Grace Jones and Dolph mostly broke up because she got all high on coke (or crack, I forget, there was a lot of both floating around in their circle at the time), thought his manager was "holding him hostage" by actually making him go to work once in a while, and showed up with a gun with the intention of murdering one or both of them in "retaliation". So they decided to break it off, and she shredded all of his clothes. Y'know, like a rational person.

These are the things I think of whenever people insist to me that cocaine is just a harmless party drug enjoyed by people who want to make sex more intense. Along with all the other sh*t I've been "privileged" to witness. And it makes me very glad that I was too young in the 80s to really know what the hell was going on around me most of the time.