Tales Of TMNT vol.2 #4

*DrSpengler* · 07-21-2004, 03:11 PM

----Spoilers n' Sh*t----
----Read at own risk n' sh*t----

Just finishedreading it. Pretty good on whole. The supplementary Utrom story was alright, short but interesting. The REAL thrill of the issue, though, was the Shredder segment. Mutant Shredder looks pretty tight. This penciller is great, John Beatty, right? His style can get kinda goofy at times, but this is TMNT afterall. The conclusion is more of an homage to H.P. Lovecraft (my favorite auther) than the first part of the story. Including dimension-surfing and lots of crazy babble. The weird interdimensional space-monkey (Pai-Doth Noor) said that he'd met Leo, or that he hadn't met Leo but they would meet for the first time at another time (time-space rips, confusing as hell). So anyone who knows Mirage better then me: have they met in an earlier issue or is this a set-up for later?

Also I gotta say I liked the ending. We may see Shredder yet again, though more self-aware that he isn't the REAL Shredder, just an aquatic facimile.

Also a lot of cursing in this issue. A little over the top, IMO, but Splinter makes note of it.

All in all, I liked it quite a bit. Best issue of Tales so far.

*raphael_is_cool* · 07-21-2004, 03:14 PM

I thought Rick Remender was the penciller, Beatty's the inker

So it's out now? I'll have to grab it on Friday if it's in the UK then

*DrSpengler* · 07-21-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raphael_is_cool

I thought Rick Remender was the penciller, Beatty's the inker

So it's out now? I'll have to grab it on Friday if it's in the UK then

I really don't know. I just read the name on the cover. Either way, I like the art in this issue.

*VaughnMichael* · 07-21-2004, 08:35 PM

wow
I just got the issue tonight and man is it awsome it's even better then part 1 is!! the art even seems better to me fore some reason I really really hope we see that mystic shark again....I wonder if it's the mytics mind or shredders though that kind of left me confused...I'm guessing the mystic but I could be wrong....
I also really loved the utrom mind recorder stimulator drug story very crack fiendish it was a really nice short story I've grown quite fond of jim's utroms...hell soon we will have our own utrom comic book lmao
It's also great to see the book will be going for some time and that it's going to become a monthly book very soon.
great issue and great job on the art Remender the cover is one of the best turtle books covers to date might I add...
oh also my boy friend who doesn't like turtles very much and thinks there corny..you got him to read this issue just because of your art..so bravo to you good sir!
-Vaughn Michael

*DrSpengler* · 07-21-2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

wow
I just got the issue tonight and man is it awsome it's even better then part 1 is!! the art even seems better to me fore some reason I really really hope we see that mystic shark again....I wonder if it's the mytics mind or shredders though that kind of left me confused...I'm guessing the mystic but I could be wrong....

Hmmm...now that I think about that, it is a possibility. But he looked like a cross between a man, a shark and Splinter. He was yammering on about his utter hatred of the turtles and how he is nothing without it. Sounds to me something that the now self-aware Shredder Shark would be thinking. He knows he's just but a clone, and therefor nothing. But he also really hates the turtles for screwing wtih him. So I think it was indeed the Shredder that swam away at the end, aware of what he is with no other goal in life than to bring down the Turtles. I can't wait to see how that story arc plays out.

Lord Nightwalker · 07-22-2004, 07:19 PM

I enjoyed pretty much everything about this issue. Scot's Frotispiece, the end of "Worms of maddness", "Grape" the Utrom tale of tragic addiction, The whole issue was good. I believe that the sea lurking abomination is something new housed in the altered remains of " Shark Shredder/Foot Mystic". Remeber, The worms were about to seek out Splinter as a new host body..and then everything went south for the "Monstrosity and the Mystic" when Leo cut Splinter free. I'd say the Foot Mystic became building material for the now self aware Shark/Octopus/Shredder thing...But..You never know..

Aztec General · 07-22-2004, 07:23 PM

They really did not make it very clear at the end whether it was the Mystic or the Shredder that still lives. Either way it should be still interesting to see the shark/octopus/Shredder/Mystic/Worm clone creature return in a future issue.

So does this mean that Shredder is still not completely destroyed? I suppose so, but I guess it depends on whether or not the creature has Saki or the Mystic's mind.

I really liked this issue and storyarc as a whole. I thought it was an intelligent way to revive the Shredder character; while acknowledging the whole time that it was not really Shredder but a hideous mystic/genetic monster that believed it was Shredder.

I also liked how the TMNT were using obscenities and then got in trouble by Splinter for doing so.

Although I have to wonder why they covered the words? This book is not under the "comic code" or anything like that.

*DrSpengler* · 07-22-2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

They really did not make it very clear at the end whether it was the Mystic or the Shredder that still lives. Either way it should be still interesting to see the shark/octopus/Shredder/Mystic/Worm clone creature return in a future issue.

So does this mean that Shredder is still not completely destroyed? I suppose so, but I guess it depends on whether or not the creature has Saki or the Mystic's mind.

I really liked this issue and storyarc as a whole. I thought it was an intelligent way to revive the Shredder character; while acknowledging the whole time that it was not really Shredder but a hideous mystic/genetic monster that believed it was Shredder.

I also liked how the TMNT were using obscenities and then got in trouble by Splinter for doing so.

Although I have to wonder why they covered the words? This book is not under the "comic code" or anything like that.

For the 10 year olds who watch the cartoon so they pick up the comic too. C'mon, the cartoon has such a following of youngters I'd imagine a good percentage of them would want to read the comic (those that can get past the "Ew! Black and white!", that is). Besides, we all know what they're REALLY saying when we see "@#$%ing".

And like I said, if the "Merman" does turn out to be Shredder it will be self-aware that it isn't really Shredder, unlike the first clone. So it'll essentially be a completely new character, personality-wise.

Aztec General · 07-22-2004, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "DrSpengler

And like I said, if the "Merman" does turn out to be Shredder it will be self-aware that it isn't really Shredder, unlike the first clone. So it'll essentially be a completely new character, personality-wise.

Well, I see what you mean. But the worm clone Shredder seemed perfectly aware that he was not truly Oroku Saki when he described how he came to be to Leo in Vol. 1 #21.

I think we are left to assume that at least SOME of Saki is still inside that "Merman". That might explain why his hatred is so strong. Which would mean that we will be seeing Shredder (in form #7) again in the future.

Shredder in his "forms" (this includes the creatures who were created from his DNA via the worm clones):

1) Oroku Saki/Shredder- The only true version. Died in Vol. 1 #1.
2) Four armed imperfect worm clone. Died in Vol. 1 #21
3) Min-Shredder imperfect worm clone. Died in Vol. 1 #21
4) Lobster claw imperfect worm clone. Died in Vol. 1 #21
5) Near perfect worm clone Shredder. Died in Vol. 1 #21
6) Shredder/shark/octopus- The remains of the near perfect worm clone. Died in Tales Vol. 2 #4.
7) Shredder/shark/octopus/Foot Mystic/worm clone- The amalgamated remains of the Shredder abominaton, Foot Mystics, and the cloning worms.

*DrSpengler* · 07-22-2004, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

Well, I see what you mean. But the worm clone Shredder seemed perfectly aware that he was not truly Oroku Saki when he described how he came to be to Leo in Vol. 1 #21.

I think we are left to assume that at least SOME of Saki is still inside that "Merman". That might explain why his hatred is so strong. Which would mean that we will be seeing Shredder (in form #7) again in the future.

Then why did the Shark Shredder take it so bad when he realised he wasn't the one true Shredder? Did the Near-Perfect Shredder Clone take it better because he looked just like the original Shredder and Shark Shredder took it so bad because he was freaken ugly?

Well, the "Merman's" monologue at the end of the issue seemed to state that he was aware he was a clone and essentially nothing (no soul, no purpose, nothing). So all he has is his hatred for the Turtles for making him realise what he is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

7) Shredder/shark/octopus/Foot Mystic/worm clone- The amalgamated remains of the Shredder abominaton, Foot Mystics, and the cloning worms.

You forgot to include Splinter.

Shreddatron · 07-23-2004, 04:51 AM

Strange, on the official site, in issue 21 Shredder explains how he(the original) came back to life. In quote.

"The Shredder explains that, through ancient practices, the Foot were able to take the pieces of his body that were blown to bits in TMNT #1 and bring him back to life by utilizing a type of worm that learns from and grows into what it eats. These worms form a colony of cels that mutate into an individual. The Shredder Elite were the first three experiments with the worms, and on the fourth attempt, the Clan allowed the worms to feed on the Shredder, thus reincarnating him... his lust for vengeance and his hatred for the Turtles stronger than before. After explaining his return, Shredder removes his armor and stands poised for battle, two katanas in hand."

Note the word reincarnation and the fact that they never ever stated that the Shredder clones were clones of him, just the first experiments with the worms before feeding his remains to them, he just had them decked out in his gear(though warped). So wouldn't it be logical that his head when merged with the shark would still be the original Shredder? Perhaps maybe he believes that he isn't the original Saki because he bears no resemblance to his former self. Maybe he became a new person er thing when he was reborn again and that the only thing from his past life he can recall is hatred for the turtles.

*DrSpengler* · 07-23-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddatron

Strange, on the official site, in issue 21 Shredder explains how he(the original) came back to life. In quote.

"The Shredder explains that, through ancient practices, the Foot were able to take the pieces of his body that were blown to bits in TMNT #1 and bring him back to life by utilizing a type of worm that learns from and grows into what it eats. These worms form a colony of cels that mutate into an individual. The Shredder Elite were the first three experiments with the worms, and on the fourth attempt, the Clan allowed the worms to feed on the Shredder, thus reincarnating him... his lust for vengeance and his hatred for the Turtles stronger than before. After explaining his return, Shredder removes his armor and stands poised for battle, two katanas in hand."

Note the word reincarnation and the fact that they never ever stated that the Shredder clones were clones of him, just the first experiments with the worms before feeding his remains to them, he just had them decked out in his gear(though warped). So wouldn't it be logical that his head when merged with the shark would still be the original Shredder? Perhaps maybe he believes that he isn't the original Saki because he bears no resemblance to his former self. Maybe he became a new person er thing when he was reborn again and that the only thing from his past life he can recall is hatred for the turtles.

Interesting theory. The word "reincarnation" would mean that it's the original Shredder's soul, just placed in a new body. These are Foot Mystics who are well-endowed with magic powers. I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for them to grab Saki's soul and shove it into a worm body.

So maybe that's why Shark Shredder went nuts, he was just having an identity crisis (how can he be Saki when he looks like that?).

I dunno.

*Chris* · 07-23-2004, 02:08 PM

I think the shark creature at the end has the Mystic's mind. I thought it was Shredder at first but then I re-read the story as a whole and if you read the opening monologue by the Mystic at the start of #3 it sounds a lot like the ending of #4. That said I think some of Shredder's personality may still be buried in there as well, but the Mystic seems to be the dominant personality IMO.

Aztec General · 07-23-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I think the shark creature at the end has the Mystic's mind. I thought it was Shredder at first but then I re-read the story as a whole and if you read the opening monologue by the Mystic at the start of #3 it sounds a lot like the ending of #4. That said I think some of Shredder's personality may still be buried in there as well, but the Mystic seems to be the dominant personality IMO.

True, but the twist might be that it was Shredder's thoughts all along.

Btw, why isn't this topic stickied?

*DrSpengler* · 07-23-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

True, but the twist might be that it was Shredder's thoughts all along.

Btw, why isn't this topic stickied?

I'm not popular.

Mr.Keith · 07-24-2004, 08:26 PM

But doesn't Laird consider the Shredder reincarnation a clone?

**Jo Dawn** · 07-24-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

True, but the twist might be that it was Shredder's thoughts all along.

Btw, why isn't this topic stickied?

I'm not popular.

Aww... sorry. Just saw this today for some reason.

*takes gum out of mouth* This'll do, hehe. Consider it stickied.

Sanjuro · 07-24-2004, 10:56 PM

No #$@%ing way........NO !#$#ING WAY!

I'm sorry just had to say it again. Reading that in the comic and seeing Leo slice him up made me smile for hours.

*DrSpengler* · 07-25-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

True, but the twist might be that it was Shredder's thoughts all along.

Btw, why isn't this topic stickied?

I'm not popular.

Aww... sorry. Just saw this today for some reason.

*takes gum out of mouth* This'll do, hehe. Consider it stickied.

To late, I've already written the suicide note. I mean, it's pretty good and all. Shouldn't let it go to waste...

Triceraton · 07-25-2004, 09:34 PM

This was a good issue all around, and I'm surprised it was left sort of unresolved at the end.
It could be taken either way.... but I think they thing at the end was primarily the Mystic.

Really, I'm just happy to hear Tales Vol. 2 will be long running, and monthly starting with #7. That, and the few details of future issues were nice too. Now we know:

#5: Leo vs. Foot Elite
#6: Cha Ocho
#7: Werewolves
#15: Foot Mystics from #2 return

And considering it doesn't have to end at #15(and most likely won't), they've got plenty of room to work with yet.

07-23-2004, 04:51 AM	#11
Shreddatron Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 108	Strange, on the official site, in issue 21 Shredder explains how he(the original) came back to life. In quote. "The Shredder explains that, through ancient practices, the Foot were able to take the pieces of his body that were blown to bits in TMNT #1 and bring him back to life by utilizing a type of worm that learns from and grows into what it eats. These worms form a colony of cels that mutate into an individual. The Shredder Elite were the first three experiments with the worms, and on the fourth attempt, the Clan allowed the worms to feed on the Shredder, thus reincarnating him... his lust for vengeance and his hatred for the Turtles stronger than before. After explaining his return, Shredder removes his armor and stands poised for battle, two katanas in hand." Note the word reincarnation and the fact that they never ever stated that the Shredder clones were clones of him, just the first experiments with the worms before feeding his remains to them, he just had them decked out in his gear(though warped). So wouldn't it be logical that his head when merged with the shark would still be the original Shredder? Perhaps maybe he believes that he isn't the original Saki because he bears no resemblance to his former self. Maybe he became a new person er thing when he was reborn again and that the only thing from his past life he can recall is hatred for the turtles. __________________ Evolution is a retarded child trying to write a book.

07-24-2004, 08:26 PM	#16
Mr.Keith Mouser Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 9	But doesn't Laird consider the Shredder reincarnation a clone? __________________ Favorite TMNT Line: Let me tell you a story... Classic.

07-21-2004, 03:11 PM	#1
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Tales Of TMNT vol.2 #4 ----Spoilers n' Sht---- ----Read at own risk n' sht---- Just finishedreading it. Pretty good on whole. The supplementary Utrom story was alright, short but interesting. The REAL thrill of the issue, though, was the Shredder segment. Mutant Shredder looks pretty tight. This penciller is great, John Beatty, right? His style can get kinda goofy at times, but this is TMNT afterall. The conclusion is more of an homage to H.P. Lovecraft (my favorite auther) than the first part of the story. Including dimension-surfing and lots of crazy babble. The weird interdimensional space-monkey (Pai-Doth Noor) said that he'd met Leo, or that he hadn't met Leo but they would meet for the first time at another time (time-space rips, confusing as hell). So anyone who knows Mirage better then me: have they met in an earlier issue or is this a set-up for later? Also I gotta say I liked the ending. We may see Shredder yet again, though more self-aware that he isn't the REAL Shredder, just an aquatic facimile. Also a lot of cursing in this issue. A little over the top, IMO, but Splinter makes note of it. All in all, I liked it quite a bit. Best issue of Tales so far.

07-21-2004, 03:14 PM	#2
raphael_is_cool Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,151	I thought Rick Remender was the penciller, Beatty's the inker So it's out now? I'll have to grab it on Friday if it's in the UK then

07-21-2004, 08:35 PM	#4
VaughnMichael I'm Baaaaaaccck! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,833	wow I just got the issue tonight and man is it awsome it's even better then part 1 is!! the art even seems better to me fore some reason I really really hope we see that mystic shark again....I wonder if it's the mytics mind or shredders though that kind of left me confused...I'm guessing the mystic but I could be wrong.... I also really loved the utrom mind recorder stimulator drug story very crack fiendish it was a really nice short story I've grown quite fond of jim's utroms...hell soon we will have our own utrom comic book lmao It's also great to see the book will be going for some time and that it's going to become a monthly book very soon. great issue and great job on the art Remender the cover is one of the best turtle books covers to date might I add... oh also my boy friend who doesn't like turtles very much and thinks there corny..you got him to read this issue just because of your art..so bravo to you good sir! -Vaughn Michael

07-22-2004, 07:19 PM	#6
Lord Nightwalker Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 698	I enjoyed pretty much everything about this issue. Scot's Frotispiece, the end of "Worms of maddness", "Grape" the Utrom tale of tragic addiction, The whole issue was good. I believe that the sea lurking abomination is something new housed in the altered remains of " Shark Shredder/Foot Mystic". Remeber, The worms were about to seek out Splinter as a new host body..and then everything went south for the "Monstrosity and the Mystic" when Leo cut Splinter free. I'd say the Foot Mystic became building material for the now self aware Shark/Octopus/Shredder thing...But..You never know..

07-22-2004, 07:23 PM	#7
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	They really did not make it very clear at the end whether it was the Mystic or the Shredder that still lives. Either way it should be still interesting to see the shark/octopus/Shredder/Mystic/Worm clone creature return in a future issue. So does this mean that Shredder is still not completely destroyed? I suppose so, but I guess it depends on whether or not the creature has Saki or the Mystic's mind. I really liked this issue and storyarc as a whole. I thought it was an intelligent way to revive the Shredder character; while acknowledging the whole time that it was not really Shredder but a hideous mystic/genetic monster that believed it was Shredder. I also liked how the TMNT were using obscenities and then got in trouble by Splinter for doing so. Although I have to wonder why they covered the words? This book is not under the "comic code" or anything like that. __________________

07-23-2004, 02:08 PM	#13
Chris Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,898	I think the shark creature at the end has the Mystic's mind. I thought it was Shredder at first but then I re-read the story as a whole and if you read the opening monologue by the Mystic at the start of #3 it sounds a lot like the ending of #4. That said I think some of Shredder's personality may still be buried in there as well, but the Mystic seems to be the dominant personality IMO.

07-24-2004, 10:56 PM	#18
Sanjuro Stone Warrior Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 598	No #$@%ing way........NO !#$#ING WAY! I'm sorry just had to say it again. Reading that in the comic and seeing Leo slice him up made me smile for hours.

07-25-2004, 09:34 PM	#20
Triceraton Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 246	This was a good issue all around, and I'm surprised it was left sort of unresolved at the end. It could be taken either way.... but I think they thing at the end was primarily the Mystic. Really, I'm just happy to hear Tales Vol. 2 will be long running, and monthly starting with #7. That, and the few details of future issues were nice too. Now we know: #5: Leo vs. Foot Elite #6: Cha Ocho #7: Werewolves #15: Foot Mystics from #2 return And considering it doesn't have to end at #15(and most likely won't), they've got plenty of room to work with yet.