What Story was better

Greed · 11-01-2002, 08:34 PM

Which Splinter orgin story was better the Mirage or the Archie

I liked the Mirage story better

**Kali** · 11-02-2002, 12:38 AM

I agree, the Mirage origin makes more sense to me. As if it made any sense in the first place.

It takes a bit of stretching to fill in the holes in the Archie/cartoon origin.

**Karpo_007** · 11-02-2002, 06:19 AM

Do I even need to tell my opinnion?

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 10:00 AM

nope.

*R-iZZy* · 11-02-2002, 10:36 AM

geez... who likes that 'ol archi(cartoon) origin. a human fell in ooze and turned into a rat. booooooriiiiing.

the mirage origin is a whole lot more explanative (if that's a word). a mutant rat that was originally a normal rat. makes sense to me.

i mean, if a human turned into a rat from the archie series, then why didn't the baby turtles turn into something different as well?

it all makes sense to me. rat stays rat, and turtles stay turtles, only in enlargened size.

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 10:45 AM

in the archie/cartoon series, the mutagen was an alien mutagenic agent that Krang supplied from Dimension X which would cause any living creature to 'take the form of' whatever last living creature they touched. Yoshi last touched a rat, so he became rat-like. The turtles last touched Yoshi, so they became human-like. Makes you wonder what would happen if a human last touched a human and got exposed to the mutagen...... regardless, its a pretty stupid idea that doesnt even have a remote basis in believability.

in the mirage/movie series, the mutagen is an alien mutagenic agent that was a chemical by-product of the Ultroms' attempts to adapt Earth technology to their uses. in effect, it acts like an 'evolutionary stimulant' and greatly enhances the evolutionary process within a creature by several million years. thus, both the turtles and splinter adopted more human-like intelligence and anatomy.

although still pretty far-out, the mirage story is 100 times more believable than the archie one. i mean, a substance that makes you 'take on the form of' whatever animal you last touched??? there isnt even a plausible scientific basis for that........

*R-iZZy* · 11-02-2002, 11:05 AM

so we all agree that mirage's origin of splinter was a whooooole lot better? well, not all of us, but the majority of us.

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 11:14 AM

yeah, i suppose so.

Greed · 11-02-2002, 11:24 AM

The Archie story is lame

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 11:27 AM

well, i wouldnt say that.....

Greed · 11-02-2002, 11:30 AM

its logic was all wrong
it skiped alot of details

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 11:35 AM

maybe..... but it got REALLY good in the later issues......

**Karpo_007** · 11-02-2002, 12:09 PM

Actually last Yoshi touched the Tutles...

speedracer · 11-02-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

although still pretty far-out, the mirage story is 100 times more believable than the archie one. i mean, a substance that makes you 'take on the form of' whatever animal you last touched??? there isnt even a plausible scientific basis for that........

There's also no plausible scientific basis for a pet rat being able to learn martial arts, either.

The implausibility of the above doesn't really matter to me, but imho the whole idea of a pet rat learning martial arts from his human master is lame, lame, lame. Maybe it was a good idea when TMNT was first conceived--as an outlandish parody of the old Marvel comics--but once TMNT gained respectability, it didn't fit very well with the Mirage origin story.

Plus, in the Archie/cartoon origin story, there's a direct link between Splinter and Shredder, making their enmity much more intense and personal.

*heretic888* · 11-02-2002, 01:31 PM

The Palladium rpg implied that Splinter may have been a mutant of sorts before he ever was exposed to the mutagen. Although implausible, it is nothing compared to the Archie story of a mutagen that changes you into whatever you last touched and an alien warlord that was punished by having his body 'taken away' from him (???)......

besides the 'enmity' you spoke of is rarely, if ever, expressed in the cartoon or archie books. whereas splinter's dislike of saki in the mirage books is quite public. besides, saki murdered splinter's master. it doesnt get a lot more personal than that.

**Kali** · 11-02-2002, 02:29 PM

Rat's are actually very intelligent creatures with an amazing ability to study and learn from their environment. So, Splinter observed Yoshi and absorbed the martial arts techniques. As a rat, he didn't have the physical or mental capabilities to put them to any use. His mind might not have even comprehended what he was seeing and learning. Like listening to people talking when you're young and not being able to understand or repeat.

But when exposed to the ooze, he evolved, and was able to understand and put to use all he'd learned from Yoshi.

**Karpo_007** · 11-02-2002, 02:35 PM

Intresting theory. But it was never ment to be realistic.

Anyone else tought the thing about cartoon, that Yoshi Touched turtles last time, not rats....

**Kali** · 11-02-2002, 02:50 PM

Well, you can explain it if you try hard enough. See, the Turtles are easy to explain. But Yoshi. The explanation that keeps my brain from exploding is that you'll notice that Yoshi stepped in the ooze before picking up the turtles. Obviously, he'd been walking around with the rats before then, and the mutagen had started changing him, using the traces of DNA left of him by the rats, before he picked up the turtles.

*blinks* Hey, the turtles started re-mutating in the later eps, right? Why didn't Splinter?

Greed · 11-02-2002, 03:02 PM

Actually Yoshi had pet rat that was on his shoulder when he touched the mutagen

**Kali** · 11-02-2002, 03:05 PM

Well then, there you go. He had more rat DNA on him than Turtle.

In the Archie book I have, he's holding a rat covered in mutagen. I wonder what happened to him/her.

11-01-2002, 08:34 PM	#1
Greed Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, ILL Posts: 931	What Story was better Which Splinter orgin story was better the Mirage or the Archie I liked the Mirage story better

11-02-2002, 10:00 AM	#4
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	heh nope. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 10:36 AM	#5
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	geez... who likes that 'ol archi(cartoon) origin. a human fell in ooze and turned into a rat. booooooriiiiing. the mirage origin is a whole lot more explanative (if that's a word). a mutant rat that was originally a normal rat. makes sense to me. i mean, if a human turned into a rat from the archie series, then why didn't the baby turtles turn into something different as well? it all makes sense to me. rat stays rat, and turtles stay turtles, only in enlargened size. __________________

11-02-2002, 10:45 AM	#6
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	ahem in the archie/cartoon series, the mutagen was an alien mutagenic agent that Krang supplied from Dimension X which would cause any living creature to 'take the form of' whatever last living creature they touched. Yoshi last touched a rat, so he became rat-like. The turtles last touched Yoshi, so they became human-like. Makes you wonder what would happen if a human last touched a human and got exposed to the mutagen...... regardless, its a pretty stupid idea that doesnt even have a remote basis in believability. in the mirage/movie series, the mutagen is an alien mutagenic agent that was a chemical by-product of the Ultroms' attempts to adapt Earth technology to their uses. in effect, it acts like an 'evolutionary stimulant' and greatly enhances the evolutionary process within a creature by several million years. thus, both the turtles and splinter adopted more human-like intelligence and anatomy. although still pretty far-out, the mirage story is 100 times more believable than the archie one. i mean, a substance that makes you 'take on the form of' whatever animal you last touched??? there isnt even a plausible scientific basis for that........ __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 11:05 AM	#7
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	so we all agree that mirage's origin of splinter was a whooooole lot better? well, not all of us, but the majority of us. __________________

11-02-2002, 12:38 AM	#2
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	I agree, the Mirage origin makes more sense to me. As if it made any sense in the first place. It takes a bit of stretching to fill in the holes in the Archie/cartoon origin.

11-02-2002, 06:19 AM	#3
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Do I even need to tell my opinnion?

11-02-2002, 11:14 AM	#8
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmm yeah, i suppose so. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 11:24 AM	#9
Greed Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, ILL Posts: 931	The Archie story is lame

11-02-2002, 11:27 AM	#10
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmmmm well, i wouldnt say that..... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 11:30 AM	#11
Greed Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, ILL Posts: 931	its logic was all wrong it skiped alot of details

11-02-2002, 11:35 AM	#12
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmmm maybe..... but it got REALLY good in the later issues...... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 12:09 PM	#13
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Actually last Yoshi touched the Tutles...

11-02-2002, 01:31 PM	#15
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	ahem The Palladium rpg implied that Splinter may have been a mutant of sorts before he ever was exposed to the mutagen. Although implausible, it is nothing compared to the Archie story of a mutagen that changes you into whatever you last touched and an alien warlord that was punished by having his body 'taken away' from him (???)...... besides the 'enmity' you spoke of is rarely, if ever, expressed in the cartoon or archie books. whereas splinter's dislike of saki in the mirage books is quite public. besides, saki murdered splinter's master. it doesnt get a lot more personal than that. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

11-02-2002, 02:29 PM	#16
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Rat's are actually very intelligent creatures with an amazing ability to study and learn from their environment. So, Splinter observed Yoshi and absorbed the martial arts techniques. As a rat, he didn't have the physical or mental capabilities to put them to any use. His mind might not have even comprehended what he was seeing and learning. Like listening to people talking when you're young and not being able to understand or repeat. But when exposed to the ooze, he evolved, and was able to understand and put to use all he'd learned from Yoshi.

11-02-2002, 02:35 PM	#17
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Intresting theory. But it was never ment to be realistic. Anyone else tought the thing about cartoon, that Yoshi Touched turtles last time, not rats....

11-02-2002, 02:50 PM	#18
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Well, you can explain it if you try hard enough. See, the Turtles are easy to explain. But Yoshi. The explanation that keeps my brain from exploding is that you'll notice that Yoshi stepped in the ooze before picking up the turtles. Obviously, he'd been walking around with the rats before then, and the mutagen had started changing him, using the traces of DNA left of him by the rats, before he picked up the turtles. blinks Hey, the turtles started re-mutating in the later eps, right? Why didn't Splinter?

11-02-2002, 03:02 PM	#19
Greed Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, ILL Posts: 931	Actually Yoshi had pet rat that was on his shoulder when he touched the mutagen

11-02-2002, 03:05 PM	#20
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Well then, there you go. He had more rat DNA on him than Turtle. In the Archie book I have, he's holding a rat covered in mutagen. I wonder what happened to him/her.